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OT: And things just get worse for Vick


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Steve, you really HAVE TO learn how to do the quote thingy since your method confuses what others say to you with your response to them...

Given how tough it is to build a case against this kind of secretive subculture activity, Vick would likely have to do a lot more than name names - he would have to testify to specific acts he witnesses and/or provide some sort of hard evidence to corroberate his testimony.

* I do hit the quote button but don't get the blue background. Pats1 fixed it once but it doesn't work anymore. And I am suggesting that Vick would have to testify to what he knows. And I am suggesting that if he did that, he could plead guilty, do little if any time, say he's sorry, blah blah blah and possibly revive his NFL career. If he goes to trial and is found guilty, he'll likley do too much time and never have his career back.

No way - his career is already nearly irretrievable. Pleading guilty would provide the commissioner more than enough on which to suspend his sorry ass for life. His testimoney in others trials would be the icing on that cake. It's essentially a gambling ring he runs and runs with, and that is a career death sentence in professional sports. Oddly now that Taylor has beaten him to the bargaining table his best course may be to go for an OJ like jury nullification. He's supposedly always been a somewhat charasmatic being - maybe he can charm a juror or two and end up with a mistrial or aquittal. I doubt the acquittal, but mistrial is a distinct possibility and it just buys his side time for folks to cease caring so much about avenging the dead dogs.

Plus unless the Feds have the makings of a case against anyone Vick could substantiate by testifying to, his testimoney alone would be of little value. Believe me, anyone who had dealings with him has moved their operation and covered their tracks pretty good in the weeks since his property was raided. By now they've had time to sanitize locations he might be familiar with too and pay off some of their own crews to get lost for a while. They expected from the outset that if he got jammed up his only way out might be to sing. This was his passion, it's their livlihood.

It's all well and good to say I know who killed X, but unless you are implicating yourself as an eye witness and or have something that can be used in addition to your own testimony to validate it, or as in this case the Feds already have a lot of physical evidence Taylor is just corroberating - especially when it's buying you a reduced sentence - you're usually not going to get much of a deal for your testimony. Tony Taylor is making their case against Vick. Vick would have to make their case against someone else they already have the foundations of a case on. He'd have to give them something really big to sway them from merely using him as a high profile example, as they did with Martha and the Enron shirts. So unless Vick has the bigger fish on tape or he copied the records they likely don't keep or have shredded by now if they did, or he can lead the Feds to the mass graves of the dogs they killed in his presence, I don't think Mike has all that much to trade. He can still try though...

And as exciting an athlete as he is (or was before he started getting dinged up regularly and his attitude started making him someone casual fans lost interest in), he was never a very good QB and he's now the antithesis of the face of the franchise player most teams want if not need that player to be. It's not just the time served in this case it's the nature of the crimes he serves any time for that will keep him off an NFL field likely permanently.
 
No, no, no. The biggest 'name' in dogfighting is Vick, unless somehow **** Cheney is involved. :)
Feds care about public names. It's not like there's a USA Czar of dogfighting.

* Yes yes yes. They already have Vick. Why not go for more. I wouldn't put it past Cheney either -:)

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/07/18/dog.fighting/

Despite the laws, dogfighting is big business. Goodwin said it's impossible to estimate the amount of money involved, but the purse for a top-level professional fight could be $100,000.

"There are about a dozen underground dogfighting magazines, and about half a dozen ... registries that are exclusively used by either dogfighters or people that are fighting dog enthusiasts," Goodwin said. "You have an organized infrastructure for what is a criminal industry
 
No way - his career is already nearly irretrievable. Pleading guilty would provide the commissioner more than enough on which to suspend his sorry ass for life.

* First off I have no idea what he's going to do. But if he plead guilty and gave good tesimony against other bigtime dogfighting players to convict others, said he was sorry and was remorseful and had now found god, he could save some of his NFL career. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. If you and others want to disagree that's fine. I don't know if we'll find out.
 
No way - his career is already nearly irretrievable. Pleading guilty would provide the commissioner more than enough on which to suspend his sorry ass for life.

* First off I have no idea what he's going to do. But if he plead guilty and gave good tesimony against other bigtime dogfighting players to convict others, said he was sorry and was remorseful and had now found god, he could save some of his NFL career. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. If you and others want to disagree that's fine. I don't know if we'll find out.

Steve -
1) if you type at the end of your quoted phrase the following : [ \quote ] without the spaces after and before the brackets, then you should be able to quote properly.

2) There is NO WAY Vick, if he plead guilty, would be allowed back in the NFL. NO WAY. NONE. Mainly because he lied to the Commissioner when he said he didn't know anything about the dog-fighting.
 
Steve -
2) There is NO WAY Vick, if he plead guilty, would be allowed back in the NFL. NO WAY. NONE. Mainly because he lied to the Commissioner when he said he didn't know anything about the dog-fighting.

I don't know if we'll find out because it's looking so far like Vick is going to go to trial. Many obviously disagree with me. That's not unusual -:) I still think if he did it right he could get a career back in a couple of years. He's probably going to be out this one already with the trail in November. Americans for whatever reason love a remorseful person.
 
Gon_Trevil said:
Hey, it doesn't get much bigger than being the guy that owns the f-kkng place where the sh!t is run. Vick may not be the *only* big fish, but he's as big as any other.

* Vick's home is far from the only place where dogs are trained to fight in the US. I really doubt Mike Vick is the biggest player in dog fighting circles in the US. Do you really think he's the kingpin of dog fighting in the country? Wouldn't his dogs need dogs from other trainers to fight against? DO you really think he's the king of dog fighting in the US?

I said he's as big as any other. There is no "kingpin" in this, just guys like Vick who facilitate the organization of the fights. It just irks me when people use the "there are bigger fish" card as if he were a small player.
 
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Ahh -- I misunderstood. I agree.

Though in truth, in some small way, I can see the psychological link between being a football player in the NFL and being attracted to dog fighting. Football is a brutal game, and the closest thing we have to gladiator combat. Going to a game, you really do get the sense of it more than on tv, where it's about stylized violence, sex, and beer.

I can sort of see how an already twisted individual from a bad environment might unconsciously see supervising over dog fighting to be not dissimilar from how he feels treated by owners and fans who cheer what is, in some respects, a brutal game.

Not making excuses here, by the way. Just playing amature psychologist and explaining why I wouldn't be surprised if more NFL players than just Vick are attracted to this sort of depravity.

I understand your psychoanalysis. It's the ability to channel the aggression - when/where to turn it on, when/where to turn it off - that separates the admired from the loathed.
 
Vick's most delusional defenders were insistent even today that Taylor would fall on his sword and plead to clear Vick...LOL

Co-defendant says he wasn't offered sentence deal to cooperate
Associated Press

Updated: July 30, 2007, 10:25 AM ET

RICHMOND, Va. -- One of Michael Vick's co-defendants pleaded guilty Monday to federal dogfighting conspiracy charges in a plea agreement with prosecutors.

Tony Taylor, 34, who will be sentenced Dec. 14, said he was not promised any specific sentence in return for his cooperation with the government.

Taylor, of Hampton, entered his plea in U.S. District Court to conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities, and conspiring to sponsor a dog in an animal fighting venture.



http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2954244
 
I don't know if we'll find out because it's looking so far like Vick is going to go to trial. Many obviously disagree with me. That's not unusual -:) I still think if he did it right he could get a career back in a couple of years. He's probably going to be out this one already with the trail in November. Americans for whatever reason love a remorseful person.

Absolutely. He'll go on Oprah and cry about how he was abused as a child, run to Larry King for a softball interview, and then do a few photo ops saving kittens. He can then do anything - play football, scare people about global warming - anything.

Ain't America grand ?

R
 
The Virginia Pilot has a story today on Taylor's guilty plea and a 13-page statement attested to by Taylor describing Vick's dog fighting activities up until 2004:
http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=129377

Also Vick has yet to be charged for felony animal cruelty charges by the state of Virginia, but this will likely contribute to that case. Vick must know now that he's facing years in federal and state prison, unless of course he agrees to co-operate with the FBI.
 
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