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OT: 2000 Yankees*

Discussion in 'Red Sox Fan Forum' started by PatsFan24, Dec 14, 2007.

  1. PatsFan24

    PatsFan24 Rookie

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    Should the 2000 WS Champion NYY have and * next to their name because Clemens was on the roids?
  2. Satchboogie3

    Satchboogie3 Rookie

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    Re: Ot: 2000 Nyy*

    How about the ALCS in '03? Boone hit the game 7 winning HR ... and was on roids.
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2007
  3. PatsFan24

    PatsFan24 Rookie

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    Re: Ot: 2000 Nyy*

    Actually it was 03, but that is a good point
  4. Scooter_McGruder

    Scooter_McGruder Rookie

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    Re: Ot: 2000 Nyy*

    I'm pretty sure the 2000 Mets had juicers as well.

    But yes, put an asterisk next to their 26!!!!!! :rocker:
  5. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    Re: Ot: 2000 Nyy*

    Technically then, you'd have to give one to the Sox for Gagne. Or maybe give the Sox extra credit for winning in spite of Gagne.
  6. Double G

    Double G Rookie

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    Re: Ot: 2000 Nyy*

    The 2000 WS Champion Yankees had TEN players on that list, so they get a big FAT *.

    Suck on that Jets fans who claim WE are cheaters, so are your Yankees, ESPECIALLY the Texas Con Man himself.............
  7. Scooter_McGruder

    Scooter_McGruder Rookie

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    Re: Ot: 2000 Nyy*

    Well, we had Donnelly, but Gagne canceled him out. So it's all good. :D
  8. kriskanos

    kriskanos Rookie

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    Re: Ot: 2000 Nyy*

    The Post should have an asterisk next to the Yankees next year(but they wont)
  9. Fixit

    Fixit Rookie

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    Re: Ot: 2000 Nyy*

    And Giambi hit two in that game.
  10. chrisfx811

    chrisfx811 Rookie

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    Re: Ot: 2000 Nyy*

    No * imho.
    These substances weren't officially banned until 2004 or 2005, iirc.
    Not to mention the so called Mitchell report, should be called the Mitchell collection of he said she said.
    Crap imo. Show me receipts, cancelled checks, tests, or something valid.
  11. Fixit

    Fixit Rookie

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    Re: Ot: 2000 Nyy*

    Also, who pays for illegal drugs with a check?
  12. NYJ24

    NYJ24 Banned

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    Re: Ot: 2000 Nyy*

    yea just like all 3 of da pats sb***
  13. Fixit

    Fixit Rookie

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    Re: Ot: 2000 Nyy*

    You're probably going to need a fourth pretty soon, so start saving your pennies, junior.
  14. Double G

    Double G Rookie

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    This retort ought to be a jem; ok NYJ24, the stage is yours, please enlighten all of us and explain EXACTLY how the Patriots cheated their way to three Super Bowls.

    Have at it you genius.................
  15. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

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    Re: Ot: 2000 Nyy*

    Performance enhancing drugs were banned in the 80's. It was testing that didn't come along until recently.

    There's a thread linking to that right here in this forum.
  16. Real World

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    Re: Ot: 2000 Nyy*

    The entire era has juice, and HGH written all over it. If you guys think that this report only names the people who used, then you to take a step back, and understand that this report only covers the testimony of two people who are facing jail time from a federal investigation. Think of Paxton Crawford having siringes fall out of his towel in the locker room, Manny Alexander and his juice laden glove box, and Jose Censeco, the needle himself, and ask yourself if other players weren't taking something. Half the league, easy, was on something. This report doesn't clear anybody, it simply names the people affiliated to McNamee, and the Mets dude.
  17. Real World

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    Re: Ot: 2000 Nyy*

    HGH wasn't a banned substance till a couple of years ago.
  18. TomBrady'sGoat

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    Re: Ot: 2000 Nyy*

    I hate the Yankees a whole lot but any talk of asterisks and tainted championships is silly. The steroid era is defined by guys on PEDs going up against other guys on PEDs. You can't single out the Yankees and pretend that the teams they beat weren't also juiced.

    I see little point in questioning any team accomplishments because all teams had/have dirty guys and clean guys. Is there any point in trying to decide which teams were/are less dirty?

    It has always been a controlled substance, and since the government grouped it with steroids it was effectively banned.
  19. Real World

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    Re: Ot: 2000 Nyy*

    It wasn't banned by MLB until 2 years ago.


    HGH wasn't banned by MLB until Jan. 2005

    By Tom Haudricourt
    Thursday, Dec 13 2007, 02:54 PM

    Human Growth Hormone, the performance-enhancing substance Eric Gagne was accused of purchasing in 2004 in the Mitchell Report released today, wasn't added to the list of banned substances by Major League Baseball until January 2005.

    http://blogs.jsonline.com/brewers/archive/2007/12/13/hgh-wasn-t-banned-by-mlb-until-jan-2005.aspx
  20. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    I think the Yanks have about 5 ot 6 different players fingered by the Mitchell report. So there could be multiple Yankees championship teams implicated by steroids/HGH use.
  21. TomBrady'sGoat

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    Re: Ot: 2000 Nyy*

    Argh, searching for this stuff is a pain right now. I'm not coming up with any links, so I can only ask you to listen and consider what I say (rather than being able to back it up with evidence). What I'm referring to is the fact that the US Government classifies HGH with steroids. Baseball had a (weak, unenforcible) policy that whatever the government considers illegal steroids are not allowed in baseball. Ergo, HGH was not allowed by baseball.

    They didn't specifically ban it, but I don't know if they really needed to. Besides, the initial drug program was fought hard by the union and MLB had to make concessions just to get it approved. Is it really an excuse that HGH wasn't banned in the initial policy when the player's union wouldn't allow it to be?
  22. Real World

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    Re: Ot: 2000 Nyy*

    I understand what your saying, but the fact that they moved to specifically ban it in 2005 makes the issue clouded. Remember though that HGH is not a steroid.
  23. BradyManny

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    Re: Ot: 2000 Nyy*

    I agree...I think the Rodney issue made everyone take a little bit harder look at HGH since it was someone we wanted to give the benefit of the doubt. Since then, I've done likewise to others who have admitted using HGH. So I really don't hold it against Petitte too much, and he came out and owned up, so I got no beef with him.

    Roger, I do think his success is a little tainted. I say a little, b/c I'm so damn sick of the steroid and baseball talk, all the * talk, etc. I guess I've gradually moved into the mindset of "almost everybody's doing it", so how can you single out one guy or one team?
  24. Foley

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    Re: Ot: 2000 Nyy*

    The next line in the article posted goes along with what you're saying:
    "HGH obtained without a prescription is a violation of federal law. Writing a prescription for HGH for unauthorized use -- including athletic performance -- also violates federal law."

    Someone who used HGH before 2005 should be viewed the same as someone who used it after 2005, because in both cases the user knew that it was in violation of the rules, and knew that using it was frowned upon by the MLB. Just because they hadn't officially banned it doesn't mean that using it was OK.

    The government, and thus MLB, viewed the use of HGH to heal faster as on the same level as using steroids to get an extra 3mph on their fastball. Maybe there is a different in some peoples eyes, but in the eyes of the law Pettitte's use of HGH is on par with Bonds's use of steroids.
  25. TomBrady'sGoat

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    Re: Ot: 2000 Nyy*

    Do you really believe Pettitte? He got caught and admitted to the smallest and most excusable infraction. Oh, and this was after years of lying. Maybe I'm too cynical but I have no reason to believe him now.

    As for Clemens, his success is definitely tainted. What I find amusing is that the Mitchell Report was such a huge revelation to many. Guys don't naturally become better players in their 40s, and he has undergone the same head growth Bonds did. Add to this the fact he's a narcissistic bastard (again, like Bonds) and I never really doubted he was juiced. Guys like he and Bonds think they deserve everything and think they can do whatever they want to achieve their goals. Why wouldn't he use steroids/HGH?

    I have moved into the everyone's doing it mindset, though. Unless there's HoF consideration I don't really care who did or didn't use. I don't really care that Brian Roberts used.
  26. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    Re: Ot: 2000 Nyy*

    The guy that made the accusations in the Mitchell report, if caught lying goes to the big house, big time. The one guy who is looking better and better is Conseco. Huge ego and all, but you know what, he told the truth (as of right now he's fairly right-on). The one player who will be under the huge microscope next year, A-Rod. Bonds and Clemons will be gone, and if Jose is right, whoa.
  27. BradyManny

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    Re: Ot: 2000 Nyy*

    Pettitte could be lying, but at this point, I feel like "who cares"? Even if there's HOF consideration involved, with so many guys juicing, taking supplements, I just don't know if you can rule out people who have been caught considering so many people in the league were doing it. It almost levels the playing field when you look at it as "everybody was cheating".

    But maybe while I don't think admitted juicers are completely tarnished, I do think players who haven't been associated with any kind of performance enhancers should be seen in a more positive light, as in, they did it the right way & they did it against a league full of cheaters. IE, Manny Ramirez and his numbers are even more impressive when you consider he was going up against a Roger or a Pettitte or anybody who might've been on roids/HGH, etc.
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2007
  28. Real World

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    Re: Ot: 2000 Nyy*


    You can't take federal law and apply it to MLB, when MLB specifically banned the substance in 2005. The only thing that applies to a sport, is what that specific sport bans.
  29. Real World

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    Re: Ot: 2000 Nyy*


    Where I generally agree with you, and don't doubt that Clemens could have (and most likely did) use the juice, you can't certify that he did. Furthermore, you can't conclude that every single player will not perform in their 40's. When it comes to pitchers, I think of the man that Clemens is commonly compared to, and that's Nolan Ryan. Ryan pitched dominantly in his 40's. No one ever alleged that he juiced.
  30. TomBrady'sGoat

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    Re: Ot: 2000 Nyy*

    I agree that there is no difinitive proof of Clemens's use. I don't really need it, though. I was already pretty sure he had used (via circumstantial evidence) and that we now have someone backing that up. The honus is on him to convince me otherwise.

    Except that Ryan hardly dominated in his 40s, and wasn't as good as he was in his prime. He put up ERAs of 4 in his 40s. Clemens had the greatest season of his career in his 40s.

    And I wouldn't be shocked to hear that Ryan had help in his 40s either.

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