One Draft Away!!!

[JMarr]

JMARR, before you get too carried away with the Chiefs, they have played teams that are a combined 1-8 so far this year.

But it's always fun to watch some fans judge based on the first three games of a season. I'm sure you were interesting to read in 2001 and 2003 also!

How many times, over the past 5 months have we heard "This young defense won't jell until probably the 10th or 11th game". You expected to see a cohesive D right out of the box????

No, and I know it will improve as the season goes on, just like almost every other team will. What I did expect was a Defense that looked more disciplined, played faster, more aggressively, tackled better, and looked like they actually cared more than last year's AD-inspired dysfunctional group.

Regarding KC, the point I was (poorly) trying to make is that they are the perenially bottom-feeding frigging Chiefs, yet will probably win their division this year, in spite of having a horrible HC, being one of the youngest teams in the league, and having a QB who is still in the process of maturing. On paper, the Pats are a top 5 team, the Chiefs a bottom 10 team, yet Weiss and Crennell have made them the better team at this point. It seems like, for Belichick, developing coaches has almost become as important as winning SBs.

 

[WhiZa]

We've had 2 great drafts in a row, I'm not sure what one more will do.

All offseason I've wanted the Pats to sign some veterans. Not to come in here and become a pro-bowler, but to finally get some consistency on an already talented and young defensive group. For an example look what Crumpler did with the TEs this year.

so to this thread I say One FA Away!!!

 

[patfanken]

Well I think we are a lot further away from having a championship defense then most..

We have not drafted particularly well the past years.. yes we have a lot of picks on the team and they are starting, but who are they competing against? Our vets are gone and Bill waited a year to long to start the process (which he admit in an interview).

In the last 2 year, Sully, exactly which picks DIDN'T we draft well. Was it Chung, Brace, Volmer, Tate, Hernandez, Gronk, McCorty, Edelman, Butler, (after one bad game?????), Spikes, Ingram, Mesko (have you given up on him after 3 games????), Pryor. That's 13 guys in the last 2 years, who are either starting or playing in a regular rotation. Can you think of another team that has won 10+ games over the last 2 years who has integrated THAT many draft picks into key contributors...and is STILL winning

Looks to me like some pretty good drafting

I don't see one impact player or game changer on this defense.. Our scheme apparently doesn't fit our personal at this point in their careers.. Maybe in a few years it will but by then, Brady will be in his mid to late 30's and those players we've been waiting to develop will be in free agency and we'll be bringing in new blood.

.

That's your opinion, but why do you think it will take that long for this team to improve. Based on WHAT?

We have 24 draft picks on our team. do we really need another 10? Time for BB to pick up the phone and use those draft picks on a player who can step in from day one and make an impact (Washington, Dillion, welker, Moss)..

No, we probably don't need all 10 of those picks, but its nice to have 5 of the first 150 picks. Besides all that doesn't preclude the Pats from picking up one or two key FAs this off season. Its supposed to be one of the best FA classes in years

 

[UofApatsfan]

Our O-Line has maybe 1 good year left together. Neal is in his last year. Light I believe is in his last year on his contract. Koppen is 31...We definitely need Mankins back.

Hopefully Mankins does get brought back because you're right Neal is already past the twilight of his career. Best case scenario IMO, Mankins is signed long term, Connolly proves himself as a capable starter at the other guard, and they use of their early picks on a left tackle. That pick, Mankins, Connolly and Vollmer would give them a solid foundation at O-line in the future.

 

[shmessy]

No, we probably don't need all 10 of those picks, but its nice to have 5 of the first 150 picks. Besides all that doesn't preclude the Pats from picking up one or two key FAs this off season. Its supposed to be one of the best FA classes in years

Ken, correct me if I'm wrong, but almost every team has "5 in the first 150".

The story is that the Pats will have 4 in the first 64.......and very possibly 3 in the first 36.

 

[Oceanviewer1]

Trade some of those picks for an established pass rusher and shutdown corner.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Trade some of those picks for an established pass rusher and shutdown corner.

Those are two of the most valuable commodities in the NFL. People aren't exactly lining up to trade them.

 

[SuperPatsFan]

Those are two of the most valuable commodities in the NFL. People aren't exactly lining up to trade them.

Besides, once BB gets that stud pass rusher he'll line him up at the 5-tech and tell him to engage the opposing tackle, two-gap and squeeze the B gap. The guy will never get a chance to lay a finger on an opposing QB.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Regarding KC, the point I was (poorly) trying to make is that they are the perenially bottom-feeding frigging Chiefs, yet will probably win their division this year, in spite of having a horrible HC, being one of the youngest teams in the league, and having a QB who is still in the process of maturing. On paper, the Pats are a top 5 team, the Chiefs a bottom 10 team, yet Weiss and Crennell have made them the better team at this point. It seems like, for Belichick, developing coaches has almost become as important as winning SBs.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lets see where KC ends up , they're ok and have had the luck of playing the bottom of the barrel the first three games.
Weiss and Crennel are gone, its a new era, get over it and get on with life. I dont think it would make a lick of difference if they were here, we have young kids that need time to develop.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Hopefully Mankins does get brought back because you're right Neal is already past the twilight of his career. Best case scenario IMO, Mankins is signed long term, Connolly proves himself as a capable starter at the other guard, and they use of their early picks on a left tackle. That pick, Mankins, Connolly and Vollmer would give them a solid foundation at O-line in the future.

Vollmer is a left tackle, and would be playing it already if not for Light being pretty good. IMO, Light isn't a problem, and if he does become one we'll be looking for a RT, not a LT.

 

[rookBoston]

We're not one draft away. We've got what we need. It's just about execution.

This offense can be as explosive as the 2007 team. We have a deeper receiving pool than we've ever had in the BB era, and our pass blocking has been simply incredible through three games. This year's OL seems as cohesive as any I have ever seen. I'm not ever stressing the loss of Kevin Faulk, because the talent on third down talent is so good.

The defense is talented and young and promising... but so green, and entirely lacking any kind of identity. I am reminded of the season when Bryan Cox was signed as a veteran FA, came onto the field, laid out a receiver on a crossing route stone cold, and set the tone for the defense for the rest of the season. That was a seminal moment for that team, and they seemed to rally around that statement. This defense is so unformed that I wonder if the kids even know what they're missing. They're so busy learning what to do, so wound up with the playbook, they cant play instinctive football.

We won the SB in 2001 with Rod Ruttledge, Jermain Wiggins and David Patten as our starters. Troy Brown was our Wes Welker, and he was our only offensive threat. Antowain Smith was nothing special; I think BJGE is the same caliber, hardnosed runner. We also started 1-3 that season. It wasn't until Week 9 that we went above .500, but we closed with six straight wins and a team that understood how it was going to compete.

This team could absolutely be better than that team, once the D kicks into gear. Frankly, they have plenty of time to learn before the playoffs. It all depends on how quickly the rookies and sophs find their games. What the 2001 team had was mental resilience. When they needed a turnover, they forced a turnover. When they needed to convert 3rd down, they converted third down. It was never pretty. It was always just enough for the win. But they found a way.

What has me worried is the coaching. The kids need high touch teaching, and I wonder if they're getting it with BB spread so thin. I sure wish we had brought Romeo back.

 

[shmessy]

We're not one draft away. We've got what we need. It's just about execution.

This offense can be as explosive as the 2007 team. We have a deeper receiving pool than we've ever had in the BB era, and our pass blocking has been simply incredible through three games. This year's OL seems as cohesive as any I have ever seen. I'm not ever stressing the loss of Kevin Faulk, because the talent on third down talent is so good.

The defense is talented and young and promising... but so green, and entirely lacking any kind of identity. I am reminded of the season when Bryan Cox was signed as a veteran FA, came onto the field, laid out a receiver on a crossing route stone cold, and set the tone for the defense for the rest of the season. That was a seminal moment for that team, and they seemed to rally around that statement. This defense is so unformed that I wonder if the kids even know what they're missing. They're so busy learning what to do, so wound up with the playbook, they cant play instinctive football.

We won the SB in 2001 with Rod Ruttledge, Jermain Wiggins and David Patten as our starters. Troy Brown was our Wes Welker, and he was our only offensive threat. Antowain Smith was nothing special; I think BJGE is the same caliber, hardnosed runner. We also started 1-3 that season. It wasn't until Week 9 that we went above .500, but we closed with six straight wins and a team that understood how it was going to compete.

This team could absolutely be better than that team, once the D kicks into gear. Frankly, they have plenty of time to learn before the playoffs. It all depends on how quickly the rookies and sophs find their games. What the 2001 team had was mental resilience. When they needed a turnover, they forced a turnover. When they needed to convert 3rd down, they converted third down. It was never pretty. It was always just enough for the win. But they found a way.

What has me worried is the coaching. The kids need high touch teaching, and I wonder if they're getting it with BB spread so thin. I sure wish we had brought Romeo back.

Yes to that.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

We're not one draft away. We've got what we need. It's just about execution.

This offense can be as explosive as the 2007 team. We have a deeper receiving pool than we've ever had in the BB era, and our pass blocking has been simply incredible through three games. This year's OL seems as cohesive as any I have ever seen. I'm not ever stressing the loss of Kevin Faulk, because the talent on third down talent is so good.

The defense is talented and young and promising... but so green, and entirely lacking any kind of identity. I am reminded of the season when Bryan Cox was signed as a veteran FA, came onto the field, laid out a receiver on a crossing route stone cold, and set the tone for the defense for the rest of the season. That was a seminal moment for that team, and they seemed to rally around that statement. This defense is so unformed that I wonder if the kids even know what they're missing. They're so busy learning what to do, so wound up with the playbook, they cant play instinctive football.

We won the SB in 2001 with Rod Ruttledge, Jermain Wiggins and David Patten as our starters. Troy Brown was our Wes Welker, and he was our only offensive threat. Antowain Smith was nothing special; I think BJGE is the same caliber, hardnosed runner. We also started 1-3 that season. It wasn't until Week 9 that we went above .500, but we closed with six straight wins and a team that understood how it was going to compete.

This team could absolutely be better than that team, once the D kicks into gear. Frankly, they have plenty of time to learn before the playoffs. It all depends on how quickly the rookies and sophs find their games. What the 2001 team had was mental resilience. When they needed a turnover, they forced a turnover. When they needed to convert 3rd down, they converted third down. It was never pretty. It was always just enough for the win. But they found a way.

What has me worried is the coaching. The kids need high touch teaching, and I wonder if they're getting it with BB spread so thin. I sure wish we had brought Romeo back.

I'm going to defer judgment on the pass coverage and pass rush, but otherwise I think you're on target.

 

[SuperPatsFan]

The defense is talented and young and promising... but so green, and entirely lacking any kind of identity. I am reminded of the season when Bryan Cox was signed as a veteran FA, came onto the field, laid out a receiver on a crossing route stone cold, and set the tone for the defense for the rest of the season. That was a seminal moment for that team, and they seemed to rally around that statement. This defense is so unformed that I wonder if the kids even know what they're missing. They're so busy learning what to do, so wound up with the playbook, they cant play instinctive football.

Many strong defenses have been led by a hard-nosed safety.

Now, let me look at the Pats' tackle stats...

Hmmm....

 

[Don Kipines]

We're not one draft away. We've got what we need. It's just about execution.

This offense can be as explosive as the 2007 team. We have a deeper receiving pool than we've ever had in the BB era, and our pass blocking has been simply incredible through three games. This year's OL seems as cohesive as any I have ever seen. I'm not ever stressing the loss of Kevin Faulk, because the talent on third down talent is so good.

The defense is talented and young and promising... but so green, and entirely lacking any kind of identity. I am reminded of the season when Bryan Cox was signed as a veteran FA, came onto the field, laid out a receiver on a crossing route stone cold, and set the tone for the defense for the rest of the season. That was a seminal moment for that team, and they seemed to rally around that statement. This defense is so unformed that I wonder if the kids even know what they're missing. They're so busy learning what to do, so wound up with the playbook, they cant play instinctive football.

We won the SB in 2001 with Rod Ruttledge, Jermain Wiggins and David Patten as our starters. Troy Brown was our Wes Welker, and he was our only offensive threat. Antowain Smith was nothing special; I think BJGE is the same caliber, hardnosed runner. We also started 1-3 that season. It wasn't until Week 9 that we went above .500, but we closed with six straight wins and a team that understood how it was going to compete.

This team could absolutely be better than that team, once the D kicks into gear. Frankly, they have plenty of time to learn before the playoffs. It all depends on how quickly the rookies and sophs find their games. What the 2001 team had was mental resilience. When they needed a turnover, they forced a turnover. When they needed to convert 3rd down, they converted third down. It was never pretty. It was always just enough for the win. But they found a way.

What has me worried is the coaching. The kids need high touch teaching, and I wonder if they're getting it with BB spread so thin. I sure wish we had brought Romeo back.

I agree with all of this. If you compare the talent level of these Patriots to the 2001 club, it's not even close. All the offensive skill position players combined on that team didn't add up to one Randy Moss. And again, the Pats have won Super Bowls with teams that for stretches fielded Earthwind Moreland and Troy Brown at corner.

But that's also part of what makes this club frustrating. It's not like there aren't any veterans on the defense. You expect the veteran safeties to play very well, but in fact it's Chung, the newbie, who's been the solid guy. Wright hasn't done much. Banta-Cain hasn't done much. They're just not playing good team defense. Getting better as the year goes on in that department is one of BB's trademarks, so we just have to hope the same situation applies. I will say I like what I saw from both Cunningham and Crable out there -- though they're not world-beaters, it's clear they at least have the physical tools to play the position and hold up at the point of attack.

One thing that I always liked about Belichick's defenses -- and this is by way of addressing the complaint that his read-and-react style no longer works in the NFL -- is that they are based on size and power, so that at the end of the season, when the weather turns bad and injuries have slowed the small, speedy teams, they become that much tougher to play against. It was just hard to run against Wilfork-Warren-Seymour-McGinest-Vrabel, not just big linemen but big linebackers. With Wright, Ninkovich and TBC out there they've lost some of that edge. You can at least see the possibility of that kind of style with Brace, Cunningham, Spikes, Crable, these guys are all big and powerful, but just very green. I think it's going to be ugly for a while, but at some point the lights are going to come on at least a little, and a little is all we'll need with this offense.

 

[Off The Grid]

I am reminded of the season when Bryan Cox was signed as a veteran FA, came onto the field, laid out a receiver on a crossing route stone cold, and set the tone for the defense for the rest of the season.

For the rest of the DECADE.

I remember that moment like it was happening right now: I was in the kitchen, arguing with my Mom on the phone, because she wanted to hold ThanksGiving at her house, but wanted to boycott FootBall, which of course entailed my absence...The Patriots were 0-2, sinking fast, it seemed, and with their "best" two players ~ Bledsoe and Glenn ~ pretty much out for the season, with absolutely no evident reason for hope, either that day, or any day in the foreseeable future, ESPECIALLY not against the Super Bowl Bound Indianapolis Colts...I remember the SPOT on the linoleum I was standing in, and the angle I was standing at, when Bryan Cox of the New England FootBall Patriots OBLITERATED Jerome Pathon with that Hit.

And a Dynasty was born.

 

[SunnyDenmark]

While it is nice to romantisize about the Cox 'big hit' turning around the franchaise, it thats all it took to win 3 Lombardis - then both Ravens and Steelers would have more recent championships. Fact is...those SB teams had the good mix of veterans who took the game seriously plus alot of good draft picks that were willing to take advice and be better. NEP hit on alot of mid to late round picks back then (Koppen, Pass, Givens, Samuel, Wilson). And the NEP early round picks were dead on (minimum dependable starters)(Seymore, Light, Graham,). Add in the FA who will do what it takes to win - Harrison, Dillon, and the coaches who know the game. Oh yes, a future HOF QB.

What I worrry about is the lack of coaches to 'coach up' these players. BB can't be teaching in 2 different areas at once (when they break into position groups drills during practices, or during positional group meetings. )