Official Niners @ Pats postgame thread

[JackBauer]

Anyway, I'd give my game balls to (excluding Brady 'cause that's a bit too obvious):

Offense: Lloyd
Defense: Talib
Honorable Mention: Andy Lee

 

[PatsSox363804]

We continue to be a team that only loses when we beat ourselves and we beat ourselves last night with the turnovers and poor execution. The worst though was the kickoff return after we tied it, that was just inexcusable and completely killed all that momentum we built up not to mention the fact that our last what 3 or 4 punt returns all had holding calls yet the refs missed the obvious hold and block in the back on that return. Now we likely get to play in Denver during the divisional round.. great.

 

[Kontradiction]

<cough> sending an all-out blitz while leaving a corner who couldn't cover grandma in a wheelchair on the outside against the opposing team's best receiver

That, IMO, was a horrible call. And I've been on record as not being in favor of that at all. I also wasn't in favor of going for it on 4th down in the shadow of our own goal post with the defense playing much better in press in the second half. Still, though, horrible call and all, that play would have been stopped had Arrington not whiffed on the tackle. That point goes back to the "complete team loss" line of thinking. That play, in and of itself, was both a coaching mistake and a failure in execution.

 

[randomk1]

I was rewatching the 2nd half of the game and that really takes the sting out of this loss. This type of battle was exactly what we needed before the playoffs. Everything that could go wrong did go wrong,the 49ers had to play lights out and it still ended up as a close game.

With Gronk back i don't think this 49ers team beats us in a rematch.

 

[Froob]

I'm not saying the refs cost the pats the game. But, I'm curious as to how that ball didn't touch Ted Ginn. The ball appears to change directions after it hits Ginns foot. So I'm confused as to how it didn't touch him if the ball bounces like.

 

[Kontradiction]

I was rewatching the 2nd half of the game and that really takes the sting out of this loss. This type of battle was exactly what we needed before the playoffs. Everything that could go wrong did go wrong,the 49ers had to play lights out and it still ended up as a close game.

With Gronk back i don't think this 49ers team beats us in a rematch.

I don't think so, either. I also don't see the team kicking itself with those types of turnovers in a dome.

 

[PatsSox363804]

I'm not saying the refs cost the pats the game. But, I'm curious as to how that ball didn't touch Ted Ginn. The ball appears to change directions after it hits Ginns foot. So I'm confused as to how it didn't touch him if the ball bounces like.

I didn't think it was conclusive, obviously would have been great to get the call. Now if Ginn had reacted like it hit him or he thought it did then maybe we get the call on the field and there wouldn't be enough to overturn it. I dont know, but I don't hate that call.

 

[Deus Irae]

<cough> sending an all-out blitz while leaving a corner who couldn't cover grandma in a wheelchair on the outside against the opposing team's best receiver

Coaching was a big problem last night. Also, I don't know who drew up the initial game plan for that game on both sides of the ball, but they should probably never be allowed to do it again. A four year old child could have come up with better game plans for that team in that weather.

 

[Welkerstache]

Ridley and Vereen hit the pine, just like in the playoffs last year.....deja vous all over again

If Ridley gets tagged with the rep of putting the ball on the ground in big games, he's not going to have a long career here, no matter how good he looks the rest of the time.

 

[stcjones]

This secondary still scares the hell out of me. Not a fan of Gregory at all.

Secondary IS and will continue to be this team's achilles heel. I am not confident in any of them out there. Gregory is awful....Arrington should have been cut a long time ago...the guy is pathetic. Dennard could be very good with a few more years under his belt, and I think Talib is decent. McCourty is inconsistent at best and is better at safety obviously.

The bigger picture overall I feel is the equally anemic pass rush. IF we can get some kind of pass rush/pressure it keeps the shoddy secondary from being exposed

 

[sevengables_2207]

I'm not saying the refs cost the pats the game. But, I'm curious as to how that ball didn't touch Ted Ginn. The ball appears to change directions after it hits Ginns foot. So I'm confused as to how it didn't touch him if the ball bounces like.

It was very close, but NBC had one angle where it looked like the ball grazed off of Ginn's foot and changed directions. Can someone explain to me why Hochuli is such an epic failure at interpretations? I thought for some reason that he said initially that the Patriots recovered but there was a holding call on them (Patriots). Then, when the mess was sorted out, they (refs) seemingly reversed the ruling of a recovery and changed the penalty from the Patriots to the Niners.

If someone could clarify this series of events, it would be much obliged.

 

[JackBauer]

Coaching was a big problem last night. Also, I don't know who drew up the initial game plan for that game on both sides of the ball, but they should probably never be allowed to do it again. A four year old child could have come up with better game plans for that team in that weather.

I'm curious as to your thoughts of what you think should've been done, if you were coaching the team. Not because I disagree, but because I always find such a discussion to be informative.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm curious as to your thoughts of what you think should've been done, if you were coaching the team. Not because I disagree, but because I always find such a discussion to be informative.

No problem:

1. No way Ridley sees the field on the first drive in that weather against that team
2. First drive is Woodhead on the field with the Patriots going 3WR/1TE/1RB, and he's there to catch passes, not to run
3. Knowing how physical SF is and how good Carlos Rogers is, why were they not using a lot more motion to keep Welker clean off the line? Also, why didn't they rub him free more often, in order to change the way he was being defended?
4. Knowing how well Vince has been playing, why stack against inside runs at the start of the game?
5. How did they not plan for short, wide passes at the start? Did they not see how SF has been setting up CK?

I'd add a comment about the O-line, but that one seems too obvious.

 

[Finnishfan]

Overall, I think it was a good game, despite we lost.

We were clearly the better team out there, we just made our life hard with key mistakes and a slow start on the offense. I'm not too worried about them, because they will only fuel BB and TFB going into the postseason and everyone will certainly buy into their speeches now.

Few random thoughts on O:
1) Woodhead is a gem, and I don't get it why they went back to Ridley after Woodys first 2 series when it seemed apparent that Woodhead was a better matchup and was getting better YPC against that D with every run.
2) We really need Gronk because Hernandez doesn't have the size to serve as the outlet for Brady against solid coverage groups. Hernandez is a great route runner and a crazy fast TE, but Gronk is always available when he is in single coverage. 49ers went nickle and dime all day long but with Gronk in the mix Brady would have made them pay earlier.
3) It still seems that Brady can get rattled if he gets hit early in the game. We should call more max protect plays to start the game, so that Brady doesn't get hit big time before he finds his rhythm.

Few random thoughts on D:
1) Talib is a keeper. Even though he struggled in the first 2 series, after that he got Crabtree completely blanketed and no matter how many times Kaepernick looked his way he wasn't open.
2) Apart from McCourty, our safeties struggle in man coverage. Gregory was beaten multiple times when he underestimated the speed of the receiver or bought into the play action (Kaepernicks all 4 TD passes were over 20 yarders, and Vernon Davis also had few opportunities with deep routes that don't show on the stat sheet).
3) Jones seem to be slowing down, for whatever reason.

And the ST:
1) McCourty is our best safety right now and he isn't the most explosive guy in the game, so we shouldn't risk him and have him return kickoffs. I could accept the fact that we lost some average yardage just so that I wouldn't worry so much when McCourty runs it out.
2) We need to get more disciplined on both sides of the ball in ST. Our coverage schemes break down too easily and on the offensive side we take too many penalties.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

I'm curious as to your thoughts of what you think should've been done, if you were coaching the team. Not because I disagree, but because I always find such a discussion to be informative.

It appears that they thought they could blindside CK and make the young guy fold by sending an inordinate amount of rushers on the blitz. Problem #1 was he didn't fold (partly because the rushers didn't get there) Problem #2 was that the heavy blitzes left normally unreliable defensive backs against worse odds. In clutch moments, the playcalls oozed with desparation where it was unnecessary. The blitzing the last few weeks was disguised well and well timed, but I think they were concerned about CK's ability to run away from one rusher who broke through, so they hoped multiple guys would break through and leave him nowhere to run. Kaepernick showed good poise and made his reads well, so said gameplanner ate some crow.

 

[Kontradiction]

No problem:

1. No way Ridley sees the field on the first drive in that weather against that team
2. First drive is Woodhead on the field with the Patriots going 3WR/1TE/1RB, and he's there to catch passes, not to run
3. Knowing how physical SF is and how good Carlos Rogers is, why were they not using a lot more motion to keep Welker clean off the line? Also, why didn't they rub him free more often, in order to change the way he was being defended?
4. Knowing how well Vince has been playing, why stack against inside runs at the start of the game?
5. How did they not plan for short, wide passes at the start? Did they not see how SF has been setting up CK?

I'd add a comment about the O-line, but that one seems too obvious.

Good point, and one that I completely forgot about. They did this in the second half to relatively good results. But that was one of the big reasons (on top of sloppy turnovers) for drives stalling out in the first half.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

I don't get some of you people. This BS that they were outcoached is a joke. They weren't outcoached. A fluke interception like the one that Aldon Smith got off Hernandez isn't being outcoached. A fluke fumble like Vereen's isn't the team being outcoached.

The Patriots were not ready to play. Plain and simple. The coaching staff did not have them ready to go. Was no intensity.

You mean the interception off Hernandez after they decided to throw to him the very next play after he got his bell wrung?? Hernandez should not have been on the field never mind the target of a freakin' screen pass.

You mean that all out blitz against a QB and offense that looked nervous and had done nothing after blowing a 28 pt lead?? An all out blitz that lead to Granny Clampett with single coverage on Michael Crabtree and is beaten by a poor throw that goes for 30 + yds and a game winning TD??

Special teams play was hideous. How does a run back go for 60 yds straight down the sideline???

As crazy as it sounds in a game where the Patriots roared back from 28 down to tie the score but that game was not as close as the score indicated.

 

[Finnishfan]

It was very close, but NBC had one angle where it looked like the ball grazed off of Ginn's foot and changed directions. Can someone explain to me why Hochuli is such an epic failure at interpretations? I thought for some reason that he said initially that the Patriots recovered but there was a holding call on them (Patriots). Then, when the mess was sorted out, they (refs) seemingly reversed the ruling of a recovery and changed the penalty from the Patriots to the Niners.

If someone could clarify this series of events, it would be much obliged.

The NFL pages describe that play like this:

(5:01) 14-Z.Mesko punts 42 yards to SF 20, Center-48-D.Aiken. 19-T.Ginn MUFFS catch, and recovers at SF 28. 19-T.Ginn to SF 28 for no gain (18-M.Slater).

So.... Ted Ginn recovered that ball?

 

[jnug]

As for coaching issues, the one that should be glaring and should have been seen as an opportunity before the game even started was the lack of defensive substitution by the Niners and the Pats success running the hurry up. We should have been in the hurry up in the first half of that game. The only chance we had to take it out of their defense was to run them into the ground with the hurry up. Since the Niners never substitute on D, that should have been known and taken full advantage of much earlier in that game.

Leaving Arrington hung out to dry with Crabtree was dumb as dirt. How in Gods name do you justify a defensive scheme that leaves Arrington on Crabtree like that.

Teams play was awful for the Pats...just awful. Without Edelman we apparently don't have anybody that can run back punts....Welker can't. Welker only gives you ball security back there...thats it. Apparently we can't block without holding on punts either. Just an awful huge difference in their teams vs ours and that is not going away if they meet in SB.

Lastly and I mentioned this earlier, I do not think the Pats lost this game on physicality specifically. However we are never the more physical team against anybody. I don't think the Pats have to match a teams physicality to win a game. By that I mean they don't necessarily have to be flying around the same way the opponent's defense might be flying around. However, the entire Pats secondary was terrible against the run in this game...they took horrible routes to the ball carriers and did not handle their run responsibilities well at all. They looked very much like our kick coverage team looked on the late run back after we had tied the game. We got a beautiful replay view of the Pats cover guys getting out of their lanes and trying to run around interference instead of cutting down the interference. They ran around the entire play leaving a nice lane for the runner to run through....just horrible and the secondary handled their run responsibilities in much the same way.

So while I do not think the Pats have to match a team's physicality in the sense of flying around on defense....when they are running around interference instead of taking it on, that is pretty weak.

If we have Gronk, we will in my view beat every team in the AFC on the road or at home. We will be very tough to beat. If we get to the SB and meet the Niners again, even with Gronk we will have to find a way to take it out of that defense. Gronk being Gronk is not going to be enough if Brady is running for his life right from the snap of the ball.

In addition, if the Pats play that poorly on teams and face that running attack on a perfect football field, I may be inclined to think our secondary is just as vulnerable against the run as they are against the pass and they certainly set a bad tone for the game trying to run around interference instead of taking the interference on.

All and all I saw complete validation of our ability to beat any AFC team we face but also saw signs that we might see an ugly SB outcome if we face the Niners with them running the ball right down our throats much of the game, keeping TB and Gronk and our offense off the field for big chunks of the game. Then they will go up top to beat us on deep passes when we sneak our safety up into the box in an effort to slow down their running attack. In fact, that happened a few times in this game as predicted a few weeks ago when we started anticipating this game.

 

[stcjones]

It was very close, but NBC had one angle where it looked like the ball grazed off of Ginn's foot and changed directions. Can someone explain to me why Hochuli is such an epic failure at interpretations? I thought for some reason that he said initially that the Patriots recovered but there was a holding call on them (Patriots). Then, when the mess was sorted out, they (refs) seemingly reversed the ruling of a recovery and changed the penalty from the Patriots to the Niners.

If someone could clarify this series of events, it would be much obliged.

Saw alot of different replays on this and just watched game again (tough)....ball never touched him