Official Niners @ Pats postgame thread

[QuantumMechanic]

Then there was the fiasco with the Ted Ginn touch/no touch challenge. Hochuli tried his darndest to screw the Pats there and did by taking away their Time Out and Challenge even though it was clear that the Pats didn't commit Illegal touching.

"taking away their Time Out and Challenge" is 100% on Belichick. That was a stupid, asinine challenge. There was nothing on that replay that showed enough to overturn the call on the field. (And if the call on the field was that it touched Ginn, it would have been a stupid, asinine challenge if Harbaugh challenged, for the same reason).

As for the "illegal touch", if Ginn didn't touch the ball then Patriots most certainly did illegally touch it. Of course, that's pretty meaningless since every time the punting team touches the punt first it is an "illegal touch". For example, every time you see a punt team down the ball, it's an illegal touch.

Illegally touching a punt is an unflagged, zero-yard spot foul. The receiving team has the option of taking the ball where the touching occurred or where the ball was blown dead. A punt returner could actually run over to the ball after the punting team touched it, pick it up, and try to return it with no risk whatsoever. If the returner fumbled it or ended up in a worse spot than where the ball was touched by the punting team, the receiving team could just choose to take the ball where it was first touched.

 

[PP2]

I feel the same way when I see Hochuli's crew. They turn every game into a cluster****.

Not just a cluster**** but also every one of his game has to have a sermon from him explaining some aspect of the rulebook. I think this is a habit carried over from his law firm which charges $1,000 an hour so you can see why every time he talks, he tries to be as long-winded as possible.

 

[JackBauer]

What happened to Hightower; he looked slow....I think I know...the Patriots never let him fully recover...same old tired story...

Hightower has actually played pretty well the last two weeks. But I guess we always gotta complain about something...same old tired story...

 

[JackBauer]

You guys are delusional. Hernandez is at worst the 6th best TE in the league and is a matchup nightmare.

I tend to agree. Haters gonna hate.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

That was the lovely replacement ref game where Woody actually scored what should have been a game winning TD.

Some real bad breaks in our earlier losses this year.

woulda...shoulda...coulda...

the AZ game shouldn't have been close enough that that mattered.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

That passing rating thing is really a joke.

He had a great night last night.

The first pick was all his fault. But he was dead on last night on long balls. He was very accurate elsewhere too.

The passing rating thing puts too much emphasis on completion rate and ignores all the other things (like moving the offense and scoring points). Too much emphasis on throwing TDs (look at how many the Patriots ran in last night, including Brady. 3 rushing TDs. Passing rating doesn't account for that.

And even the INT to Hernandez was a play they complete 99.9% of the time. It's actually a safe play, not supposed to be dangerous at all. Aaron short-armed it.

I thought Brady had one of his best night's of the season, and he did it against the best pass rushing defense in the league.

i doubt he agrees with you.

But, it's all water over the bridge or under the dam or wherever the hell it is that water is supposed to go.

Beat Jacksonville!

 

[DaBruinz]

Because of turnovers and special teams' play, here was the average starting field position last night:

SF - own 42
NE - own 19

The Niners had essentially a +345 hidden yardage advantage (23 yards per possession over 15 possessions). The Pats never started off better than their own 34, and 13 of their 16 possessions started off at their 25 or worse.

The Niners had 8 of their 14 possessions start off at their 30 or better, and they got the ball in New England territory four times.

Just disastrous play by the special teams, and the turnovers didn't exactly help.

First off, your count is incorrect. San Fran had possession 17 times. Of those 17 possessions, 5 of them started in NE Territory because of turnovers (2 fumbles, 2 ints, and on downs). Another started at the NE46 because of the failed onside kick. Which has a low % of success.

The other possessions started as follows:
37, 8, 41, 20, 22, 30, 20, 18, 25, NE38, 28. The possessions that started at the 37 and 41 yard lines were PUNTS of 49 yards with an 8 yard return and 49 yards and a 7 yard return.

The kick return to the 30 yard line was a 36 yard return and the only one without controversy. The 62 yard return by San Fran had more holding by San Fran players than anything I'd ever seen in a game before. And I'm not the only one to mention it.

So, to lambaste the Special Teams for ONE bad return by calling their play disastrous is really unfair.

 

[DaBruinz]

yada yada.

you make your breaks. we fumbled twice and were picked twice and after we tie the game our ST gives Kaepernick the ball on our 35 yard line. I don't care if a magic fairy made the ball bouce one way or the other, they recovered five of their fumbles and we didn't.

we're the ones who need some "luck" now in the form of a Cleveland win or a KC miracle over the Broncos, because the one place I don't want to play in January is Denver. I can see us winning three on the road in the playoffs, but Denver scares the **** out of me.

The 1st pick should have been over-turned because Rogers clearly initiated contact with Welker that moved Welker off his route way beyond the 5 yard area.

The special teams didn't GIVE Kaepernick the ball at our 38. The refs did for their refusal to call holding the same for both teams.

Those are facts that you can try to dispute, but it would be futile.

 

[Kontradiction]

Not just a cluster**** but also every one of his game has to have a sermon from him explaining some aspect of the rulebook. I think this is a habit carried over from his law firm which charges $1,000 an hour so you can see why every time he talks, he tries to be as long-winded as possible.

Hochuli: The word of Goodell.

Crowd: Praise be to you, Lord, Roger Goodell.

 

[DaBruinz]

<cough> sending an all-out blitz while leaving a corner who couldn't cover grandma in a wheelchair on the outside against the opposing team's best receiver

That isn't being out-coached, Jack. That is lack of execution by the players. Arrington was playing too far off Crabtree to start with. The Blitzers didn't get to Kaepernick they way they should have.

Now, one could argue that they should have moved McCourty over to CB and put either Chung or Wilson in at Safety on that play, but then again, one could argue that the play should have been called back because at least 2 different Patriot players who were rushing had were held (jersey's pulled to prevent their movement).

 

[DaBruinz]

It was very close, but NBC had one angle where it looked like the ball grazed off of Ginn's foot and changed directions. Can someone explain to me why Hochuli is such an epic failure at interpretations? I thought for some reason that he said initially that the Patriots recovered but there was a holding call on them (Patriots). Then, when the mess was sorted out, they (refs) seemingly reversed the ruling of a recovery and changed the penalty from the Patriots to the Niners.

If someone could clarify this series of events, it would be much obliged.

There should have been 2 penalties on the 49ers. The penalty on 57 (which wasn't seen in the replay) and a penalty on #26 who was clearly holding Maquice Cole's jersey.

Now, the original call that Hochuli made was that the Pats had recovered the ball, BUT holding by #57 nullified that recovery and gave the 49ers the ball 10 yards from the spot of the recovery. He then changed the call to Illegal Touching. Which meant that Cole had gone out of bounds and was the 1st one to touch the ball upon coming back in. Which didn't make sense since the call had been that the Pats had recovered the ball. That would have meant that Ginn touched it.

Now, what I don't understand is that BB challenged the call of Illegal Touching and it was found that Cole hadn't gone out of bounds, which nullified the Illegal Touching, the Pats should have WON the challenge, not lost it. Since it would have proven that Cole had recovered the ball.

Hochuli fubared that play badly and it was a significant play during the game.

 

[DaBruinz]

Hernendez is NOT a #1 TE option.

I wouldve like to have seen what he would get in Free Agency. Someone wouldve overpaid for him. He's a complimentary #2 TE. Dropped wayyyy too many balls last night for someone who doesn't block. He had the opportunity to be "the man" last night, and he wasn't.


Hightower is coming on strong now. Nobody has talked about this kid, but he's really picking it up late in the season.

Let me know when you watch the games because Hernandez WAS blocking during the game. Fact is that he's not as good of a blocker as Gronk. That's life.

 

[DaBruinz]

"taking away their Time Out and Challenge" is 100% on Belichick. That was a stupid, asinine challenge. There was nothing on that replay that showed enough to overturn the call on the field. (And if the call on the field was that it touched Ginn, it would have been a stupid, asinine challenge if Harbaugh challenged, for the same reason).

As for the "illegal touch", if Ginn didn't touch the ball then Patriots most certainly did illegally touch it. Of course, that's pretty meaningless since every time the punting team touches the punt first it is an "illegal touch". For example, every time you see a punt team down the ball, it's an illegal touch.

Illegally touching a punt is an unflagged, zero-yard spot foul. The receiving team has the option of taking the ball where the touching occurred or where the ball was blown dead. A punt returner could actually run over to the ball after the punting team touched it, pick it up, and try to return it with no risk whatsoever. If the returner fumbled it or ended up in a worse spot than where the ball was touched by the punting team, the receiving team could just choose to take the ball where it was first touched.

Illegal touching on a punt return is when a Gunner runs out of bounds and then is the first person to touch the ball after returning to the field of play. It's a penalty against the kicking team.

It wasn't an asinine call by BB considering the absolute BS explanation that was given. The ORIGINAL call would have given the 49ers the ball at their 42 yard line, not the 32 where Cole recovered it or the 22 where it was placed after Hochuli got the Holding penalty correct.

 

[JackBauer]

That isn't being out-coached, Jack. That is lack of execution by the players. Arrington was playing too far off Crabtree to start with. The Blitzers didn't get to Kaepernick they way they should have.

Now, one could argue that they should have moved McCourty over to CB and put either Chung or Wilson in at Safety on that play, but then again, one could argue that the play should have been called back because at least 2 different Patriot players who were rushing had were held (jersey's pulled to prevent their movement).

Nope. As a coaching staff you need to be cognizant of the limitations of your players. The fact that you have one of the worst outside corners in the league on your defense pretty much necessitates dictating the defensive calls accordingly. They messed that one up, bigtime.