PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

***** Official Deus Irae 9/7/2014 game observations (and more) thread *****


Status
Not open for further replies.
You're welcome to believe that Devey is as good an offensive guard as is Logan Mankins. Devey himself probably doesn't think that he's at that level, but whatever works for you.

As for Wright, he is what he is. He's a WR playing on the end of the line. Again, that's not his fault, and it probably wouldn't have been an issue if Gronk had been 100% healthy, Devey was starter material and OHOH hadn't stunk out the joint.


1) Where did I even come close to INFERRING that about Devey? Really for you to write that I'm "welcome to believe Devey is as good an offensive guard as is Logan Mankins. Devey himself probably doesn't think that he's at that level, but whatever works for you." is truly you at your worst.

2) "Hey, how about that shiny new TE2, Tim Wright? The WR with the wrong positional label racked up a whopping 15 yards on 3 catches. Thank God they got him for his blocking, huh?"

He's been in the system 2 weeks. Almost everyone (including myself on MULTIPLE occasions right here on this forum) wrote that he will not be much of a weapon until the latter part of the season. What part of those multiple posts did you not understand?

Look, obviously, you are out to "win the internet". You have some good points. You have some bad points. Try being honest and NOT putting words into peoples' mouths that they never put forth.
 
Last edited:
i enjoy hearing what deus has to say.....but it seems like his agenda is that, Brady is the best ever, and if we dont win the SB in any given year, its the other players and coaches fault

that being said, his contributions are impressive.......love ya deus........:p

I frequently point to Brady, along with Crumpler, as the players who cost the team against the Jets in the 2010 playoffs. My agenda is to try and avoid having any agenda other than avoiding one. ;)


How about: 3rd and 29 - Run off-tackle. :confused:

The ball was at the right hash and the run was to the right. Brilliant.

In the past, they used to run that draw play and earlier in the screen they ran a bubble screen on a 3rd and long, so we started joking that they were going to call a straight run play.

Can't make it up.

3rd and 29? Call anything that doesn't result in a short yardage turnover, and I'm fine with it, unless we're talking absolute last seconds of the game stuff.
 
1) Where did I even come close to INFERRING that about Devey? Really for you to write that I'm welcome to believe "Devey is as good an offensive guard as is Logan Mankins. Devey himself probably doesn't think that he's at that level, but whatever works for you." is truly you at your worst.

2) "Hey, how about that shiny new TE2, Tim Wright? The WR with the wrong positional label racked up a whopping 15 yards on 3 catches. Thank God they got him for his blocking, huh?"

He's been in the system 2 weeks. Almost everyone (including myself on MULTIPLE occasions right here on this forum) wrote that he will not be much of a weapon until the latter part of the season. What part of those multiple posts did you not understand?

Look, obviously, you are out to "win the internet". You have some good points. You have some bad points. Try to be honest.

You trolled my post with the Odrick quote. I get that it's what you do. I'm just not going to play that game today. You're welcome to believe that Devey is on the same level as Mankins, or that one past performance insures all those in the future. You're welcome to believe that Wright was fine yesterday. You're welcome to believe whatever the hell you want.

Have yourself a great day.
 
I've seen this movie before,(and so hasn't anyone that has watched the pats play the fins in miami for the last four decades) Its a familiar script. The pats start out strong but wilt in the end...its the heat and humidity. Miami has been a house of horrors for the pats as long as i can remember, and that goes back to the early seventies. So i'm not as worried as more recent ah er fans about what happened yesterday. The team has almost always struggled in south florida early in the season.
 
Deus is one of the best, make no mistake. We are all irrational at times and about certain things, and most of us have had an ax to grind at some point. I disagree with some of Deus' views, but I always take them seriously, and I learn something from him pretty much every day.

I don't want to turn this thread into an agenda about Deus since it really isn't fair of me to do that. So I will just say I guess we have varying opinions on him and be done with it.
 
Look, obviously, you are out to "win the internet". You have some good points. You have some bad points. Try being honest and NOT putting words into peoples' mouths that they never put forth.

Shmessy, please stop following Deus around from thread to thread and "trolling" him by posting on threads in which he has already posted. It's embarrassing. :D
 
You trolled my post with the Odrick quote. I get that it's what you do. I'm just not going to play that game today. You're welcome to believe that Devey is on the same level as Mankins, or that one past performance insures all those in the future. You're welcome to believe that Wright was fine yesterday. You're welcome to believe whatever the hell you want.

Have yourself a great day.


What????? "Trolling" because I linked to a relevant counter argument that Odrick said in the papers yesterday????

And those two things you write that I am "welcome to believe"???? I don't believe any of those things, nor did I write any of those things.

You have many good points in your post. I disagree with a couple of others. But for you to behave like this on the disagreements is childish and immature.
 
Shmessy, please stop following Deus around from thread to thread and "trolling" him by posting on threads in which he has already posted. It's embarrassing. :D


I know, it's incredibly bizarre. Sometimes one has to simply shake one's head.
 
You trolled my post with the Odrick quote. I get that it's what you do. I'm just not going to play that game today. You're welcome to believe that Devey is on the same level as Mankins, or that one past performance insures all those in the future. You're welcome to believe that Wright was fine yesterday. You're welcome to believe whatever the hell you want.

Have yourself a great day.

Why does Devey have to be on the same level as Mankins to point out that Devey was not the issue on the offensive line yesterday and it was more Vollmer and Mankins?

As for Wright, for a guy who hasn't spent two weeks in the system yet, the fact he was on the field and catching balls is a decent accomplishment. It took Danny Woodhead several weeks to be a factor in the passing game as a RB and it is easier for them because they have less routes to worry about. He was a faster factor in the running game, but it is easier for a RB to pick up the system. Yet, you seem to be killing Wright because he only had three catches. Hey Gronk only had one more catch and 25 more yards (and one TD) and he has been in the system for years and Brady targeted him far more. Why not kill him?
 
why do we always have the default assumption that any miscommunication is the WRs fault and not Bradys fault at all.......what time of the game was that gronk pass that you're talking about?

Primarily because Brady has been in this offense for 14 years and he knows it so well that he helps design the offense gameplan for every Sunday. I would daresay he knows the offense better than anyone else associated with the Patriots.

Also you have to remember that from his vantage point, he is in a much better position to recognize what the defense is giving, than a player who's already in his route and having to make a decision at the stem.
 
There is no way the Patriots can play a 3-4 successfully with Vellano-Wilfork-Jones. You need good big
bodies like Warren-Wilfork-Seymour. Jones is too small and Vellano not good enough.
 
What????? "Trolling" because I linked to a relevant counter argument that Odrick said in the papers yesterday????

And those two things you write that I am "welcome to believe"???? I don't believe any of those things, nor did I write any of those things.

You have many good points in your post. I disagree with a couple of others. But for you to behave like this on the disagreements is childish and immature.

There's nothing even remotely relevant to Odricks comment. That's the point. Feel free to go to Unoriginal's thread where he breaks down the OL play and show him how wrong he is, by putting that quote in, though. I'm sure all of Devey's miscues will magically disappear.

Unofficial Offensive Line Analysis Thread, Week 1 Miami 2014
 
I agree with a lot of Deus' points, but that Welker bit doesn't belong in discussing yesterday's game.

We should have resigned him yes, but again, dude Welker had nothing to do with yesterday's loss so why mention him?

I know BB will adjust our defense and they'll play better. I know (hope) our OL will play better.

What I'm concerned with is our adjustment or lack of effective adjustment on offense when the Dolphins D started to stop what we did well. This isn't the first time McD's offense has been stopped in the second when defenses make adjustments. I'm not too confident in him making effective adjustments. It really is up to the players to play great to beat defensive adjustments.
 
There's nothing even remotely relevant to Odricks comment. That's the point. Feel free to go to Unoriginal's thread where he breaks down the OL play and show him how wrong he is by putting that quote in, though. I'm sure all of Devey's miscues will magically disappear.


Ok, NOW, I understand.

Odrick was talking about some OTHER Logan Mankins who didn't formerly play Left Guard for the New England Patriots.

He must have been referring to the accountant Logan Mankins.

And once again, at NO time did I ever defend Devey's performance yesterday.

But keep trying to paint a picture that doesn't exist.
 
I don't think Patricia understood anything on the field yesterday.

I have more faith in Patricia turning things around than I do McDaniels.

The Dolphins ran a lot of play action which is exactly what the NE offense should have been doing to counter the Miami pass rush. Miami could just tee off because there wasnt going to be any threat of a NE run game.
 
Primarily because Brady has been in this offense for 14 years and he knows it so well that he helps design the offense gameplan for every Sunday. I would daresay he knows the offense better than anyone else associated with the Patriots.

Also you have to remember that from his vantage point, he is in a much better position to recognize what the defense is giving, than a player who's already in his route and having to make a decision at the stem.

on ambiguous missed communication plays, ill give him the benefit of the doubt....like the gronk one mentioned......on plays like the edelman pass, where he clearly had him if he hadnt changed the route edelman was on (and thrown it towards the safety, instead of away), im less inclined to subscribe to such sacred cow-ism

look at the replay and tell me that doesnt appear to be bradys fault.......only BB knows for sure, and he aint talkin
 
I still don't understand why they're running the 3-4...

There is no way the Patriots can play a 3-4 successfully with Vellano-Wilfork-Jones. You need good big
bodies like Warren-Wilfork-Seymour. Jones is too small and Vellano not good enough.

A nice read from Richard Hill:

I'm not sure how they did it, but the Patriots coaching staff put together the worst possible mix of their starting defensive players. Apart from nose tackle Vince Wilfork, the Patriots decided to play a full unit of 4-3 players and insert them into a 3-4 front.

No one has any idea why and it's unlikely Bill Belichick will disclose the reason at a later date.


Let's start with the basic fact of the 3-4: either the defensive line or the linebackers will have to two-gap.

That's just how the defense functions if either of the linebackers drop into coverage. There are six gaps with the basic five man offensive line, seven gaps if there's a tight end (in between each player and then to the outside of the last person on the line). With three defensive linemen and four linebackers, either all seven will have to commit to maintain a single-gap assignment, or someone in the front seven will have to two gap.

Vince Wilfork can two gap, even if he didn't play his best. He plays the nose and he covers both A gaps (to either side of the center). Chandler Jones and Joe Vellano, on the other hand, cannot two gap.

Jones is 265 pounds and asking him to hold his ground against an offensive tackle and guard (assuming a two-gapping principle) is just asinine. In fact, it makes running the ball even easier for the Dolphins because the tackle and guard can seal Jones out of the play, while the Guard can break off into the second level to take on a linebacker; it's an easy five yards.

Let's also ignore that the Patriots are taking their most dangerous pass rusher and asking him to have multiple-gap responsibility.

Vellano is 300 pounds, but he's the new edition of Kyle Love at 6'1. He doesn't have the length to maintain multiple gaps and he was overwhelmed even in single protection.

With both Jones and Vellano unable to guard multiple gaps, it allowed the Dolphins to run at will, which they did.

But let's say that the Patriots didn't ask the defensive linemen to cover multiple gaps. Let's assume the defensive line was operating under single-gap ideas, and that it was the linebackers responsibility to cover two gaps. They have the speed, so they should be able to, right?

The issue comes with their strength. There's no Brandon Spikes on the roster, the only linebacker capable of standing up an offensive lineman. Even if Jamie Collins or Jerod Mayo were able to get in the right position to stop the running back, they were met head-on with an offensive lineman, who had no trouble sealing them out of the play.

By assigning the linebackers multiple gaps, they have to approach the rushing lanes from an angle, instead of directly, allowing blockers to seal the pathway.

There's no question that the best solution for this defense is to go back to the 4-3 front. The coaches fielded a defensive line too small to sustain a 3-4 front. They have linebackers too weak to stand-up offensive linemen.

Jones and Vellano were put in terrible situations and their production showed. They were the least effective players on defense, and that is not their fault; the blame lies with the coaches.

When the Patriots face the Vikings and Adrian Peterson, they cannot afford to give the same running lanes that they gave Knowshon Moreno and the Dolphins. They need to field a defensive line of Chandler Jones, Vince Wilfork, Sealver Siliga, and Rob Ninkovich. They need to operate the way the roster intended.​

The Patriots Didn't Have 3-4 Personnel, But Tried Anyways
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


Patriots News 4-28, Draft Notes On Every Draft Pick
MORSE: A Closer Look at the Patriots Undrafted Free Agents
Five Thoughts on the Patriots Draft Picks: Overall, Wolf Played it Safe
2024 Patriots Undrafted Free Agents – FULL LIST
MORSE: Thoughts on Patriots Day 3 Draft Results
TRANSCRIPT: Patriots Head Coach Jerod Mayo Post-Draft Press Conference
2024 Patriots Draft Picks – FULL LIST
TRANSCRIPT: Patriots CB Marcellas Dial’s Conference Call with the New England Media
So Far, Patriots Wolf Playing It Smart Through Five Rounds
Wolf, Patriots Target Chemistry After Adding WR Baker
Back
Top