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Official 2013 Patriots Training Camp Thread

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Ian, Jul 23, 2013.

  1. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Rookie

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    Not Retained:

    Ron Brace
    Brandon Deaderick
    Kyle Love
    Myron Pryor
    Trevor Scott
    Tracy White
    Patrick Chung
    Derrick Martin
    Malcolm Williams

    New England Patriots Salary Cap 2012

    Defensive players that should have been cut or not re-signed:

    Steve Gregory
    Marquice Cole
    Niko Koutouvides

    Unrestricted free agents that should have been signed:

    Kenny Phillips
  2. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    1) How many reps did Underwood have in 2011? How many did Branch have in 2012?

    2) You can be glad that Welker and Lloyd are not here. We would have a much better chance at the Super Bowl with both here along with their production.

    3) Rookie wide receivers are a crapshoot. Even the best often don't do well in their rookie years. OK, maybe Dobson will have 550 yards as you say, maybe not. The offensive line is the best in the league. It will need to be, given the quality of our receivers. Good defense will go after Brady, again and again.

    4) What a strange idea. Welker will be as good this year as last, and maybe diminish some in 2014. And your conclusion is that it is time to move on and not have Welker as our best receiver. Well, you have your wish. Our best receiver is considerably worse than Welker.

  3. JackBauer

    JackBauer On the Roster

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  4. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Rookie

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    I have a big problem seeing him go. As we all witnessed last season, Edelman is not the answer, who incidentally is the only wide receiver retained from last season's 53 man roster.
  5. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Rookie

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    The best rookie performance for a wide receiver during the Bill Belichick era for the New England Patriots was 489 receiving yards by Deion Branch.

    Deion Branch NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com
  6. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle ( o Y o ) PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Ron Brace - Dead weight who never proved he was worth his draft pick.
    Brandon Deaderick - Real bummer but supposedly this was a locker room presence move.
    Kyle Love - Another bummer (I liked Love) but Diabeetus.
    Myron Pryor - Never proved it.
    Trevor Scott - Had some moments, wish he could have stayed.
    Tracy White - Decent special teams, liability on defensive snaps.
    Patrick Chung - Will not be missed.
    Derrick Martin - No real impact.
    Malcolm Williams - Thought he could do well on special teams, didn't really pan out.

    Defensive players that should have been cut or not re-signed:

    Steve Gregory - Cut for what reason? So we can give more snaps to young/unproven players? He's a good nickel/dime option backing up DMC. He was out of position at SS and we won't have to worry about that now with Adrian starting and Tavon backing him up.
    Marquice Cole - Gets too much flack for not being able to cover Bolden. As a nickel or dime option he was solid.
    Niko Koutouvides - Not too impressed with Niko's special teams.

    Here's the kicker, these guys could all be cut as things stand.

    If we could do it over again I'd try to find a way to keep Deaderick and Scott. But these aren't guys who would be getting double digit snaps every game either way.

    I'm ok with what they've done on defense, overall. The moves on the DL are a bummer but we're putting our hopes in Kelley.
  7. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Oswlek seems to find the grapes to be a bit sour.
  8. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Rookie

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    Tell that to Jeremy Ebert and Greg Salas, who incidentally was not a rookie, last season.
  9. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

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    We're not going to agree on this one, mg.

    1) Pedantic. Branch's snap count is a big reason why we are seeing the rebuild. How about we look at production? 145 yards and a sub 10 ypc? Yeah, we're talking Underwood territory here.

    2) I'm not glad Wes isn't here, I just understand where they are coming from. I am glad Lloyd is gone because I honestly believe he was a net negative player. Worst YAC receiver I've ever seen, drops too easy catches, gets pushed around easily, never got in tune with Brady even though they were clearly forcing him the ball at times.

    3) Unknown =/ poor quality.

    4) You are being intentionally obtuse on this one. No need to spin my words into statements I didn't make.
  10. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

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    A 7th rounder and a cut from another team? Not seeing the comparable here, sorry.
  11. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

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    You are too smart for this garbage, Deus. I thought we went back far enough to avoid this kind of childish response, sad to see I was off base.
  12. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Rookie

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  13. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    :confused:

    What's the problem with someone saying that you seem to have a small case of the sour grapes, given your positions on Lloyd and Welker? How is that childish, in your eyes?
  14. BadMoFo

    BadMoFo Rookie

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    So conditioning tests, are those done today or tomorrow? Haven't heard of anything, other than Leon Washington's tweet saying he beasted it.
  15. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

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    I know. That was pretty much where I got my mythical numbers from.

    The bold is the key part of your statement. 2002 secondary, 2009 TEs, 2006 WRs - NE isn't afraid to blow up a position if they feel it needs a serious overhaul. And usually with great success.

    Since Deus and mg feel the need to spin my statements into bare resemblances, I'll be perfectly clear. I would love to have Wes back. When I said that I expected him to go after the AFCCG it was largely because I thought that he'd be asking for $6-7mm a year and that NE would (rightly, IMO) assess him in the $4mm range as a top level #2. That, in conjunction with some festering animosity, would create an irreparable rift.

    But, again, expecting him to go is not the same thing as wanting him to. Nor does it mean I feel any need to downplay his performance as a Patriot.
  16. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

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    The fact that it is a sweeping generalization and entirely inaccurate might have something to do with it. :confused4:
  17. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Rookie

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    The 2006 New England Patriots wide receiver overhaul was a massive failure as evident by the 2007 New England Patriots transactions at the aforementioned position.
  18. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

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    Wow. I am so fvcking stupid.

    Aside from that, though, how does the fact that a late round pick was involved in Salas' acquisition materially change my point? Can't we disagree without personal assaults?
  19. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

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    You might want to read my original post again. The years mentioned were the precipitating seasons, not the rebuild.
  20. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Sour grapes is where you want something until you don't get it, and then you start finding reasons to be 'happy' that you don't have it. Your position on Welker is pretty much textbook sour grapes. If the notion sour grapes is too harsh for you (why that would be, I have no idea, but...), feel free to go with "awfully quick to rationalize and justify".

    Your position on Lloyd appears bizarre on its face, but seems to be based upon some level of internally consistent guesswork, so there's no real need to address it with any detail.

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