Observations about Colts defense

[Ring 6]

As a Colts fan, I have to agree with a lot of what Andy has to say about the Colts defense. They are what they are. The defense is better than last year but they are still small by design. If a team goes one dimensional on them by exploiting their size with the run they have to overcommit, but given the opportunity by the opposition to overcommit, what else should they do?

Every team has it's flaws. The Colt's D is small but fast, the Patriot's D is a bit old in the middle but big and very disciplined. That being said, I personally don't see a defensive battle when the Colts and Patriots meet this year, both teams should move the ball pretty much at will. It will be the defense that ends up creating the turnovers that wins the game, IMHO. Will the youthful D pull the most turnovers, or will the wiley veterans?

I'm not ready to say the Colt D is better than last year.
I do not see upgrades in the positions that changed, just different guys.
I just see a few starters leaving and their backups taking their place, which rarely makes you better.

 

[homergreg]

I'm not ready to say the Colt D is better than last year.
I do not see upgrades in the positions that changed, just different guys.
I just see a few starters leaving and their backups taking their place, which rarely makes you better.

Time will tell. I think Hayden and Jackson are better than David and Harper. They are bigger and stronger. We spent the draft picks on these guys for a reason. Losing Booger is a minus. Keiaho is better against the run than June, but June, when healthy, could drop back incredibly fast. But like I said, time will tell.

 

[patsox23]

Time will tell. I think Hayden and Jackson are better than David and Harper. They are bigger and stronger. We spent the draft picks on these guys for a reason. Losing Booger is a minus. Keiaho is better against the run than June, but June, when healthy, could drop back incredibly fast. But like I said, time will tell.

Thanks for the input and the specifics. Always nice to hear legit analysis BASED ON SOMETHING. Don't be a stranger, Greg. That's the kind of back and forth we like around here.

 

[sarge]

I think the Colts D looks better this season.

They are so fast when they do over commit (which I definately agree they do), they have the speed to get back.

I think Adai looks better too.

 

[vinceanity]

After watching the Colts over the past few years, and sometimes struggling to understand how their defense can be physically overmatched, yet still seem to perform decently, I think Ive figured out the connundrum.

This is my opinion. The Colts live by overcommitting. There run D issues are well-documented, and clearly understandable because they are undersized, and their DL is asked to rush the QB, and find the ball carrier on the way if it happens to be a run. They twist, stunt, spin, and often take themesleves out of postion on running plays. HOWEVER, at the same time, those pass rush moves create negative plays. It is VERY OFTEN that you see a minus run against the Colt D, when if that defender who got in the backfield didnt make the tackle, there was loads of running room. In other words you cannot expect to run against this defense as you would traditionally against a typical D. You risk more bad plays, for the result of more big plays. (Contrary to typical running game strategy).
More importantly Ive seen the 'weak Colt run D' stop a ton of 3rd and shorts. Essentially everyone shoots a gap, and they are banking on one of them making a tackle for loss. If you block it, there is a big gain for you.

Additionally, if the Colts focus on stopping the run, their cover2 allows the corners and safety to get into the play.
In pass D, the coverage is not great, but they try to keep everything in front of them, and hope to execute a pass rush.

My conclusion is that the Colt defense is GOOD if you are playing on their terms, and awful, if you have them playing on yours.
In obvious run or pass situations, their scheme puts players in position to make the play. In not obvious run or pass situaiton, their scheme allows you to attack weaknesses. Those weaknesses are created by BOTH their overcommitting, AND the fact that to play this style you put players on the field who have weaknesses (i.e very small DL and LBs, corners who play cover2 well play good run support, but struggle to cover if the pass rush isn't helping them).

I think in last years playoffs, the Ravens and Chiefs played into the Colts hands. They came out to run the ball, and allowed the Colts to overcommit to one thing. Doing that they ended up in long 3rd downs that could be overcommitted to the pass rush.
Many fans questioned us not running the ball more agaisnt the Colts in the 2nd half last year, but I saw this happenning then. They were overcommitted to the run, and would have stopped our running game. We would have been gambling on breaking a big run, like Dillon did early in the game. Throwing, and throwing short, would have been the best way to stay on the field.

I am finally convinced that our WRs played a big part in that loss. Not because the D shouldn't have played better, but because with good WRs (I'd call what we had last year in the playoffs 'capable' not good) the Colts would not have been able to do that, or if they did, we would have torched them with the passing game, eliminating at least one or 2 times their offense got on the field.

If you stay in nuetral run/pass down and distances, and break trends to run whne they overcommit to the pass, and pass when they overcommit to the run, the Colts D will have a hard time stopping anyone. The problem is most teams look at:
1) an undersized front 7 that cannot stop the run toe to toe
2) an all out pass rush that you want to avoid (especially since they are very good at the strip sack)
and decide to try to run it down their throats. You will gain some yardage, but you are playing right into their hands.

The way to beat the Colts is Jeff Fisher's plan. No team plays the Colts better than the Titans. I guarrantee you BB is looking at those last three games. Total score 53-53 for both teams. The way to beat the Colts is control Manning. Play a cover two or cover three shell and mix it upo with man four with man over the top. Let Addai get his 75-80 yds and stop the run with the front 7. Manning will eventually make an error due to inpatience. The other teams goal is to control clock..........dealers choice on how...........The last game we did it both with the pass and run. The two times before it it was with the run. The Colts are good but they are not great. They can be had.

 

[vinceanity]

there depth is also quite bad and they are getting injuries now..........it is just a matter of time before it catches up to them based upon the manner they play on D. Sanders and Harrison are nicked. So is addai. Morris is out for the yr. Now Boiman and Hagler are in. They will soften up.

 

[Ring 6]

there depth is also quite bad and they are getting injuries now..........it is just a matter of time before it catches up to them based upon the manner they play on D. Sanders and Harrison are nicked. So is addai. Morris is out for the yr. Now Boiman and Hagler are in. They will soften up.

Injuries and lack of depth behind them is what derails most defending champs. Not that it will, but it is a valid issue to look at. (Of course that goes for all good teams, not just the ones that won the SB, but SB Champs seem to historically get hit hard in these areas. )

 

[18>12]

there depth is also quite bad and they are getting injuries now..........it is just a matter of time before it catches up to them based upon the manner they play on D. Sanders and Harrison are nicked. So is addai. Morris is out for the yr. Now Boiman and Hagler are in. They will soften up.

Wow you obviously haven't seen Hagler play or Boiman.

 

[vinceanity]

My team has had no depth since 2000. This yr we are loaded. We could sustain injuries at many places except QB. We would die with Collins. But depth for the Colts is bigger because they play ultra aggressive and give up the body...........when it turns to Nov and Dec that is when the Colts D falls apart. It will happen like clock work. Last yr they were lucky to get them all back for the playoffs............my bet is this yr their luck runs out.

Just wait til the Monday nighter against Jax. No team hates the Colts more and they try to inflicted pain on the Colts. They play like they dont care about the score. It really is a great game every yr. The Colts will want to avenge the 375 yds they gave up and I know the Jags front seven is going to hit the colts skill players for 4 Q's

 

[vinceanity]

Wow you obviously haven't seen Hagler play or Boiman.

I saw them week two when we put 165 yds on them...........for a dropped pass we win. Boiman was a Titan and we got rid of him because he cant play. He is a great ST player that is it. The Colts run is over.

 

[18>12]

I saw them week two when we put 165 yds on them...........for a dropped pass we win. Boiman was a Titan and we got rid of him because he cant play. He is a great ST player that is it. The Colts run is over.

No, if the Colts weren't 1 for 5 in the redzone it's a blowout. Lol!

Try beating us when it counts if our run is over. Oh yeah you gotta make the playoffs to do that.

 

[Ring 6]

No, if the Colts weren't 1 for 5 in the redzone it's a blowout. Lol!

Try beating us when it counts if our run is over. Oh yeah you gotta make the playoffs to do that.

What does that mean?
If the Bills completed 20 more passes, ran for 100 more yards, and sacked Brady 10 times last week they would have blown out the Patriots. See but they didn't. Being 1 for 5 on the red zone reflects HOW YOUR TEAM PLAYED. Its not an excuse that something lucky happened.

 

[18>12]

What does that mean?
If the Bills completed 20 more passes, ran for 100 more yards, and sacked Brady 10 times last week they would have blown out the Patriots. See but they didn't. Being 1 for 5 on the red zone reflects HOW YOUR TEAM PLAYED. Its not an excuse that something lucky happened.

Exactly, now tell that other guy his team lost not because some guy dropped a pass but because the Colts were better than the Titans. If that guy dropping an open pass is the reason the Colts won, then i can easily say if we scored TD's instead of FG's we would have blown them out.

 

[Ring 6]

Exactly, now tell that other guy his team lost not because some guy dropped a pass but because the Colts were better than the Titans. If that guy dropping an open pass is the reason the Colts won, then i can easily say if we scored TD's instead of FG's we would have blown them out.

There is a big difference between droppin gone pass and failing 4 times in the red zone.
Its all irellevant anyway, you either win or lose. There are no bad wins or good losses.
If you are talking about the gaps between the teams (i.e. Tenn saying you beat us again but were getting close) one dropped pass is a hell of a lot closer to the difference in a game than 4 failed red zone trips.

 

[18>12]

There is a big difference between droppin gone pass and failing 4 times in the red zone.
Its all irellevant anyway, you either win or lose. There are no bad wins or good losses.
If you are talking about the gaps between the teams (i.e. Tenn saying you beat us again but were getting close) one dropped pass is a hell of a lot closer to the difference in a game than 4 failed red zone trips.

We're 4-0 and better than ever.

I'm about to go enjoy this game. Go Bengals.

 

[vinceanity]

Titans D stopped them thats why...............we always play them tough. Jim Schwartz knows how to stop manning. And its a lock we beat them in Indy week 17 for the AFC South title.

 

[He Ban Me]

After watching the Colts over the past few years, and sometimes struggling to understand how their defense can be physically overmatched, yet still seem to perform decently, I think Ive figured out the connundrum.

This is my opinion. The Colts live by overcommitting. There run D issues are well-documented, and clearly understandable because they are undersized, and their DL is asked to rush the QB, and find the ball carrier on the way if it happens to be a run. They twist, stunt, spin, and often take themesleves out of postion on running plays. HOWEVER, at the same time, those pass rush moves create negative plays. It is VERY OFTEN that you see a minus run against the Colt D, when if that defender who got in the backfield didnt make the tackle, there was loads of running room. In other words you cannot expect to run against this defense as you would traditionally against a typical D. You risk more bad plays, for the result of more big plays. (Contrary to typical running game strategy).
More importantly Ive seen the 'weak Colt run D' stop a ton of 3rd and shorts. Essentially everyone shoots a gap, and they are banking on one of them making a tackle for loss. If you block it, there is a big gain for you.

Additionally, if the Colts focus on stopping the run, their cover2 allows the corners and safety to get into the play.
In pass D, the coverage is not great, but they try to keep everything in front of them, and hope to execute a pass rush.

My conclusion is that the Colt defense is GOOD if you are playing on their terms, and awful, if you have them playing on yours.
In obvious run or pass situations, their scheme puts players in position to make the play. In not obvious run or pass situaiton, their scheme allows you to attack weaknesses. Those weaknesses are created by BOTH their overcommitting, AND the fact that to play this style you put players on the field who have weaknesses (i.e very small DL and LBs, corners who play cover2 well play good run support, but struggle to cover if the pass rush isn't helping them).

I think in last years playoffs, the Ravens and Chiefs played into the Colts hands. They came out to run the ball, and allowed the Colts to overcommit to one thing. Doing that they ended up in long 3rd downs that could be overcommitted to the pass rush.
Many fans questioned us not running the ball more agaisnt the Colts in the 2nd half last year, but I saw this happenning then. They were overcommitted to the run, and would have stopped our running game. We would have been gambling on breaking a big run, like Dillon did early in the game. Throwing, and throwing short, would have been the best way to stay on the field.

I am finally convinced that our WRs played a big part in that loss. Not because the D shouldn't have played better, but because with good WRs (I'd call what we had last year in the playoffs 'capable' not good) the Colts would not have been able to do that, or if they did, we would have torched them with the passing game, eliminating at least one or 2 times their offense got on the field.

If you stay in nuetral run/pass down and distances, and break trends to run whne they overcommit to the pass, and pass when they overcommit to the run, the Colts D will have a hard time stopping anyone. The problem is most teams look at:
1) an undersized front 7 that cannot stop the run toe to toe
2) an all out pass rush that you want to avoid (especially since they are very good at the strip sack)
and decide to try to run it down their throats. You will gain some yardage, but you are playing right into their hands.

Well, Andy, I think you are right all the way up to the playoffs. The ends put themselves out of position seemingly every play of every game. Then, when big LJ came to town, that all changed. The thing is, HAD KC gone AWAY from the run, Herm would have been denigrated for not running enough. Happened when Cincy came to town. "Didn't run Rudy enough". The thing is, basically, that no one respects this defense, and no one likes to give it any credit. It's ALWAYS the opposing coaches fault. I know guys were PO'd last season when Maroney didn't (seemingly) get enough carries (especially in 2nd half).

 

[He Ban Me]

How is it funny that the Colts are a contender? The Steelers are too. Since we have had more battles with the Colts, we tend to dissect them a little more closely.

Last year, the AFCC game was what an AFCC is supposed to be. Unlike the last 2 times these teams met in the playoffs, and we dominated you, it was a game that was very close and came down a few clutch plays. Your guys made them. (I wont use the excuse that half our defense wasn't on the field due to injury or illness because thats part of the game. If oyu want ot win, overcome it) In the context of this post, perhaps we 'had you right where we wanted you' but we did not execute. I think that had a lot to do with being unable to capitalize on the passing game. With Moss, Stallorth, and Welker, we would have made it much more difficult for your D to overcommit to the run. We WANTED TO run in the second half. Your defensive strategy dictated that you were taking it away, and we had to throw. Now, we scored a ton of points on offense, the problem was when it came time for us to control the ball, the Colts overcommitted that we couldn't do it by running. Our WRs failed us, and made that a great strategy for the Colts.

I'm not sure what your whining is about.

Unlike Colt fans who continually tried to explain away their big game failures and make excuses, we do not do that around here. We showed up, we played the best game we could, it wasn't enough. I am fine with that since it has been enough 12 times in 14 playoff games, and enough for 3 SB Championships.
We did not win the SB last year. That means we werent good enough to, just like 30 other teams. However, we have been good enough to 3 of the last 6 years, and I expect to make it 4 of 7.
You seem to think I need to have a response to why the Patriots lost. I do not. There is none. They lost. But they have 3 SB Championships. Maybe you can respond to why your Colts only have 1.

Probably already called out on this, but there are SEVERAL FOLKS HERE WHO CONTINUE TO MAKE EXCUSES FOR LAST SEASON, as you ever so subtlely alluded to as well.

 

[He Ban Me]

Answer me this. What defense DOESN'T perform better when they are leading?? Colts were down V. N.O., @ Tex, and V.Donks. Not to mention V. NE, and V. Chicago, yet somehow, the TEAM managed to win, little defense and all.

 

[He Ban Me]

The way to beat the Colts is Jeff Fisher's plan. No team plays the Colts better than the Titans. I guarrantee you BB is looking at those last three games. Total score 53-53 for both teams. The way to beat the Colts is control Manning. Play a cover two or cover three shell and mix it upo with man four with man over the top. Let Addai get his 75-80 yds and stop the run with the front 7. Manning will eventually make an error due to inpatience. The other teams goal is to control clock..........dealers choice on how...........The last game we did it both with the pass and run. The two times before it it was with the run. The Colts are good but they are not great. They can be had.

Bad post Vince. Titans play dirty football, as NE can attest to. Fish is a great coach, but Haynesworth is an A-Hole, and Vince is a big friggin' baby. Had we not been playing sandlot ball, you'd not have been in the position you were. And had the referee called the DB for bumping Wayne off his route 10 yards in, that "IMPATIENT" Manning would have had another completion, another first down, and no pick.