NFLPA files complaint over league's guaranteed TV deals

[DaBruinz]

I'm not one who usually sides with unions of overpaid players in general, but how are the players unreasonable in seeking to maintain a roughly 50/50 split in revenues?

Because, right now, they actually have a 60/40 split with them taking the 60%..

And they want MORE.

 

[DaBruinz]

And that's the attitude that allows them all to treat us like such crap. But I do respect your honesty in that you are willing to let them crap all over you and you'll just go back for more and more when they command you to.

How are they treating you like crap? Seriously.. I would love to hear you explain this.

 

[eom]

Because, right now, they actually have a 60/40 split with them taking the 60%..

And they want MORE.

haha...yeah, maybe skinnydog should change his post from 'players' to 'owners'.

 

[Wolfpack]

How are they treating you like crap? Seriously.. I would love to hear you explain this.

I think we were all working with the hypothetical that there will indeed be a lockout, which is seeming less and less of a hypothetical and more and more of a reality. When billionaires fight millionaires for every single penny and have the attitude that says "screw the fans" I consider that being treated like crap. Perhaps you enjoy it though.

 

[ahmed]

The players need to be reminded that at the end of the day, they are employees. if the NFL were to fold (not gonna happen), the owners would still invest their money somewhere else (though they would have a lot less of it), but where would the players make anywhere near what they are getting now?

 

[DaBruinz]

I think we were all working with the hypothetical that there will indeed be a lockout, which is seeming less and less of a hypothetical and more and more of a reality. When billionaires fight millionaires for every single penny and have the attitude that says "screw the fans" I consider that being treated like crap. Perhaps you enjoy it though.

You are so full of garbage..

First off, none of that is you being treated like crap. Or any fan for that matter. There is no "screw the fans" attitude and you are stupid for thinking that.

Secondly, not all NFL owners are Billionaires... There are a select few who are. But mainly because of other business interests, not their teams.

Lastly, the PLAYERS are the ones fighting the owners for every single last penny. The players are the ones who think that it's their god given right to have a bigger piece of the pie year after year..

 

[Wolfpack]

You are so full of garbage..

Well get used to a lot of people echoing my sentiments in the coming year.

First off, none of that is you being treated like crap. Or any fan for that matter. There is no "screw the fans" attitude and you are stupid for thinking that.

If the league implements a lockout, the vast majority will see it as a slap in the face of the fans.

Secondly, not all NFL owners are Billionaires... There are a select few who are. But mainly because of other business interests, not their teams.

And not all players are millionaires. But I am going to use the phrase "billionaires verusus millionaires" anyway. If you don't like it, that's your problem.

Lastly, the PLAYERS are the ones fighting the owners for every single last penny. The players are the ones who think that it's their god given right to have a bigger piece of the pie year after year..

Um, it wasn't the players who opted out of the current CBA, now was it?

 

[DaBruinz]

Well get used to a lot of people echoing my sentiments in the coming year. Why? Do you really think most people are as irrational as you are?
If the league implements a lockout, the vast majority will see it as a slap in the face of the fans. How is it a slap in the face to the fans? You still haven't explained that.
And not all players are millionaires. But I am going to use the phrase "billionaires verusus millionaires" anyway. If you don't like it, that's your problem.
No. It's YOUR problem because you you are being grossly inaccurate. Are you one of those people who thinks that facts are only relevant when it helps your position?

Um, it wasn't the players who opted out of the current CBA, now was it? No. It was the owners because they realized that the deal they signed was not financially feasible for the longevity of the league. Or did you miss that as many as 4 teams are in such financial trouble that they are looking at moving???? Not to mention that is was, basically, the PLAYERS, who forced that deal down the throats of the owners during the last bit of negotiations.... Did you think it was a "slap in the face to the fans" then?

You have yet to explain how a lockout "craps" on the fans. From what I see, a lockout HELPS the fans because it would save them thousands of dollars by NOT having to go to the games, by NOT having to pay for Tickets (Regular or Season), by NOT having to pay for outrageous parking, by not having to pay for grossly over-priced food and watered down beer. Seems to me that the fans GAIN a lot back into their pockets.

It seems to me that you think that you are ENTITLED to these things and that just isn't the case. They are a privilege , not a right.

You might want to brush up on what's been going on between the Union and the owners because, until the meeting this month, the player's union has all but refused for the past 18 months to sit down at the negotiating table with the Owners to work on a new CBA. Yes, part of that was because they were finding a replacement for the departed Mr. Upshaw. Most of it was because they felt that the owners were bluffing.

 

[Wolfpack]

You have yet to explain how a lockout "craps" on the fans. From what I see, a lockout HELPS the fans because it would save them thousands of dollars by NOT having to go to the games, by NOT having to pay for Tickets (Regular or Season), by NOT having to pay for outrageous parking, by not having to pay for grossly over-priced food and watered down beer. Seems to me that the fans GAIN a lot back into their pockets.

This is the most ******ed argument I have ever seen. You're telling fans they should be happy if there's no football because then they won't be wasting their money on it?

By the way, here's a newsflash for you from the real world: Bob Kraft (and every single other owner with a waiting list) will be sending out their season ticket invoices next year just like there is nothing wrong. Payment due March 31, or your seats go to someone else. So all us STHers will still be outlaying out usual couple grand.

It seems to me that you think that you are ENTITLED to these things and that just isn't the case. They are a privilege , not a right.

If you don't think fans are going to be pissed come September 2011 if there is a lockout and we aren't getting football, you are living in fairy land. To call me "irrational" because I gladly admit I will be one of those pissed off fans shows you need a dose of reality.

Obviously you are the type of guy who can be slapped in the face and thank the person who did it for "the privilege" and for not punching you in the gut. But the rest of us are going to be plenty mad if there is no football being played next September.

 

[jmt57]

Back to the original topic .... the NFL has responded with a Q&A on PR website. Take what they say with a grain of salt, but I did find this portion interesting; they claim the union is suing even though they have never seen the contract.

NFLLabor.com Q&A on Special Master case regarding television contracts

Q: Hasn’t the NFLPA seen the television contracts?

A: The NFLPA filed this proceeding without even reviewing the contracts that they are challenging. The NFL repeatedly offered those contracts to the NFLPA’s lawyers for their review, but the NFLPA refused to agree to standard confidentiality guarantees for those proprietary documents. As a result, many of their allegations are speculative and inaccurate.

 

[DaBruinz]

This is the most ******ed argument I have ever seen. You're telling fans they should be happy if there's no football because then they won't be wasting their money on it?

Again, Fans watching football is NOT a RIGHT. It's a privilege. I know that is a concept you clearly can't understand. Most intelligent people CAN understand that. Regardless, though, if there is a lockout or not, it is NOT about the fans. The fans have nothing to do with it. You clearly don't understand that. And any fan who thinks that the owners or players are doing this to spite the fans is too stupid for their own good.

By the way, here's a newsflash for you from the real world: Bob Kraft (and every single other owner with a waiting list) will be sending out their season ticket invoices next year just like there is nothing wrong. Payment due March 31, or your seats go to someone else. So all us STHers will still be outlaying out usual couple grand.

Wrong.... Come March 3rd or whenever the new season is officially supposed to start, if the owners have locked out the players, then the owners won't be sending out season ticket invoices.. And, even if they have, they will have to reimburse you the money. Also, I am pretty sure, from a legal standpoint, if they aren't offering you a product at the time, you have the right to not pay, but still hold your tickets since the league would be in limbo..

If you don't think fans are going to be pissed come September 2011 if there is a lockout and we aren't getting football, you are living in fairy land. To call me "irrational" because I gladly admit I will be one of those pissed off fans shows you need a dose of reality.

Fans can be pissed all they want. It's stupid and a waste of energy because the FANS are not the reason why there would be a lockout. Yes, I will call you irrational. Because you would be. But seriously, if you are still pissed after 6 months of knowing there wasn't going to be football, then you have some serious mental issues, not to mention your priorities out of whack.

Obviously you are the type of guy who can be slapped in the face and thank the person who did it for "the privilege" and for not punching you in the gut. But the rest of us are going to be plenty mad if there is no football being played next September.

Wow. Talk about more stupidity. You don't have the right or the privilege to put your hand another person in a violent manner..

I'm the type of person who knows that there is absolutely NOTHING I can do regarding whether or not there is a work stoppage in the NFL so I am not going to bother wasting the time or energy on it. I also know that, if there is a work stoppage, then both the PLAYERS and OWNERS are to blame. Not one side or the other, but BOTH. But I also know that life doesn't end if the football season doesn't happen. I know that if there is a work stoppage, then the NFL will be hurt severely by it. Just like MLB and the NHL were hurt when they had their work stoppages. And, that WILL affect the players and owners directly.

So, while you huff and puff and waste your energy being pissed off over something you can't control, I'll be doing other things with my time.


P.S. The only fans who have the right to be pissed at the players are the fans of the Green Bay Packers who have ownership rights..

 

[mgteich]

I agree 100%.

If there is a work stoppage, players will be hurt, especially marginal, lower-paid players.
If there is a work stoppage, team owners will be hurt, especially financially weak ones.
If there is a work stoppage, workers in affected jobs will be hurt (such as concession folks)
If there is a work stoppage, fans without ownership interest will be affected little.

It is not our jobs and paychecks that are threatened. It is not our business that could lose money or go bankrupt. I think we need some perspective. The owners, players and other workers have the most to gain and lose.

Some have posted as if the fans have already been harmed irreperably. What rubbish! Guys like Mankins have been hurt. Players not getting 401K matching contributions have been hurt. Fans won't even be marginally affected until and if the first game doesn't take place over a year from now in August 2011. We won't even lose the 2011 draft while the negotiations go on!

Again, Fans watching football is NOT a RIGHT. It's a privilege. I know that is a concept you clearly can't understand. Most intelligent people CAN understand that. Regardless, though, if there is a lockout or not, it is NOT about the fans. The fans have nothing to do with it. You clearly don't understand that. And any fan who thinks that the owners or players are doing this to spite the fans is too stupid for their own good.



Wrong.... Come March 3rd or whenever the new season is officially supposed to start, if the owners have locked out the players, then the owners won't be sending out season ticket invoices.. And, even if they have, they will have to reimburse you the money. Also, I am pretty sure, from a legal standpoint, if they aren't offering you a product at the time, you have the right to not pay, but still hold your tickets since the league would be in limbo..



Fans can be pissed all they want. It's stupid and a waste of energy because the FANS are not the reason why there would be a lockout. Yes, I will call you irrational. Because you would be. But seriously, if you are still pissed after 6 months of knowing there wasn't going to be football, then you have some serious mental issues, not to mention your priorities out of whack.



Wow. Talk about more stupidity. You don't have the right or the privilege to put your hand another person in a violent manner..

I'm the type of person who knows that there is absolutely NOTHING I can do regarding whether or not there is a work stoppage in the NFL so I am not going to bother wasting the time or energy on it. I also know that, if there is a work stoppage, then both the PLAYERS and OWNERS are to blame. Not one side or the other, but BOTH. But I also know that life doesn't end if the football season doesn't happen. I know that if there is a work stoppage, then the NFL will be hurt severely by it. Just like MLB and the NHL were hurt when they had their work stoppages. And, that WILL affect the players and owners directly.

So, while you huff and puff and waste your energy being pissed off over something you can't control, I'll be doing other things with my time.


P.S. The only fans who have the right to be pissed at the players are the fans of the Green Bay Packers who have ownership rights..

 

[Patsaholic]

I wished to add a legal perspective to this long thread that has become all about the fan being the one screwed. I am an attorney, so I have a little knowledge.

The players have a right to sue and a fairly legitimate complaint because the owners had a fiduciary obligation to maximize TV contracts. A fiduciary obligation is that the NFL had to act in the best interests of the players who are currently playing (more on my use of term current players later).

Since these payments in case of a lockout where agreed to while the players were in the CBA, the owners traded away a trading chip that has value to ensure they have money coming in. This trading chip (guaranteed financing) is potentially worth a whole lot of money.

How much its worth is likely speculative. Also, this affects ex players who lost salary money because the salary caps were lower than they should be. Of course, individually they couldn't sue because its harder to prove any individual would benefit. But the NFLPA can and should.

The NFLPA likely never brought this up because the NFL was never likely to excercise this right, and it has only been brought to public interest relatively recently. They have never seen the documents because they would not sign a disclosure agreement. If the disclosure screwed over the NFLPA without being close to a lawsuit, they would not be able to go to the media without getting sued. Here they get to make a big heehaw over it, to the media. Because most importantly in all this, likely worth more than all money in this is the NFL owners want the NFL fans on their side, and the sentiment away from the players.

Its working.

I could talk on this for hours, but its late.

 

[NovaScotiaPatsFan]

What in the Heck am I going to do without football for the 5 years it'll take them to sort out this mess?

 

[Wolfpack]

Again, Fans watching football is NOT a RIGHT. It's a privilege.

Boy what a great business model you suggest. The NFL should just come right out and say "Hey, jerks, letting you watch our games is a PRIVILEGE and not a RIGHT!"

I know that is a concept you clearly can't understand. Most intelligent people CAN understand that. Regardless, though, if there is a lockout or not, it is NOT about the fans. The fans have nothing to do with it. You clearly don't understand that. And any fan who thinks that the owners or players are doing this to spite the fans is too stupid for their own good.

Please promise me if there is a lockout that extends into the season, you'll be here next August and September regurgitating the same idiocy. I want to see how the average patsfans.com member responds to your moronic statements if the lockout becomes a reality instead of a hypothetical still 15 months away.

Wrong.... Come March 3rd or whenever the new season is officially supposed to start, if the owners have locked out the players, then the owners won't be sending out season ticket invoices.. And, even if they have, they will have to reimburse you the money. Also, I am pretty sure, from a legal standpoint, if they aren't offering you a product at the time, you have the right to not pay, but still hold your tickets since the league would be in limbo..

This paragraph's idiocy and foolish naivete has been noted and saved for future usage against you. If you don't thinki the Patriots will be expecting payment on time even through the lockout, you are a fool.

Now don't get me wrong... teams like the Lions and Jaguars will certainly give their STHers all the leeway they want. But teams like NE, Pit or GB will be expecting payment in full up front.

Fans can be pissed all they want. It's stupid and a waste of energy because the FANS are not the reason why there would be a lockout. Yes, I will call you irrational. Because you would be. But seriously, if you are still pissed after 6 months of knowing there wasn't going to be football, then you have some serious mental issues, not to mention your priorities out of whack.

You're just embarrassing yourself here. All you statement about fans being upset can extend to any issue in the sports world. Clue for the clueless: The very nature of following sports is, by your very own argument, irrational.

 

[mgteich]

????????????????

Sorting out the mess is one thing; playing nfl football is another. I don't see the players being able to hold out for half a season, one at the most. The 2012 season will be a "normal" one under the new CBA.

What in the Heck am I going to do without football for the 5 years it'll take them to sort out this mess?

 

[MassPats38]

A nice strategy to force the owner's hand, but unless this complaint is resolved prior to the deadline to take the anticipated contract revenues off the table, I don't know how much this will do. With the associated complexity of the finances, it may be too little, too late to turn the tide by itself if typical litigation schedules are applied. Obviously, the NFLPA will push for an expedited resolution to avoid that result.

The direct financial "harm" discussed above is obviously to players and owners as they get the lion's share of the profits from ticket sales. I agree this is about the money and not about the fans, but this clearly has an incidental effect on the fans, without whom the NFL as a whole will not see dime one from the sport.

Given the narrow window of most good teams, fans may turn from the game if their good team becomes a not-so-good team after the layoff, on the belief the NFL cheated them of a chance for a title and that chance may not return anytime soon. There will also be the greedy millionaire/billionaire response to a lock-out. Given the potential profit to the owners if there is a lock-out, there would seem to be a potential long-term loss in profits when the game returns that might offset the short-term profits.

This article discusses the potential effect of a lock-out on NFL profits based on analogy to the NHL and MLB. It is also worth noting that some say the 1994 MLB strike handed the reigns to the NFL as the most popular sport.