NFLN: Brady/Manning Debate

[upstater1]

give Manning the pats defense from 2001 through 2005 and he may have 3 rings as will... they are both amazing QB's that would still be hall of fame QB's in any system

I am not buying that in the least.

Manning choked away games in the early part of the decade in the playoffs. Brady was setting NFL records in the Super Bowl. It was like a night and day performance between the two.

 

[Froob]

the pats have BB who will do everything in he's power to put players in the right situation were they can secede even with out Brady the pats will still have a shot at the playoffs because of BB, the colts dont have tony dungy any more so after Peyton Manning the biggest leader in that franchise is Bill Polian so with out Manning that team gets 5 wins at best.

I don't think that last part is true. Excluding last year, I think sorgi could of gotten them 8-10 wins. Not title contenders but, those teams had a lot of talent. Dallas Clark,Reggie Wayne,Marvin Harrison,edgerin James, and Dwight freeney aren't exactly scrubs.

 

[jbb9s]

I think Brady could put this debate to bed if he could perform again in the post season similar to his first 10 starts. Giants, Ravens and Jets have stung, especially since Pats were favored in all 3 and home for 2 and neutral for 1. Not that he played "poorly" but only OK really. The losses were not his fault btw.

Also, the 07 and 10 seasons for Brady are the two best ever by a QB, based on TD/INT. And by a long shot. Like we're talking the 9/1 td/int is almost twice as good as any other player in history (himself in 07 excluded).

Also, the dome versus winter/outdoor stadium can not be understated and basically makes any career comparison moot. Although Brady holds his own nonetheless.

I see Brady with 6-8 more playoff wins in him and Manning with 3-5 based on their ages and the strength of their current teams. If Brady retires at about 20-7, 4+ rings and Manning at 14-14, 1 or 2 rings, this debate will be moot.

 

[townes]

A) 9-10 play-offs 1-1 SB 1 ring

B) 14-5 play-offs 3-1 SB 3 rings





End of discussion.

 

[Sivy]

Did anyone watch it? I was loving how dukes was sticking up for Brady. Saying how manning had all kinds of 1st rounders and kept calling out names when they tried to argue..." clark, harrison, faulk...." and then he said something about brady making chicken salad out of chicken soup or something like that.

 

[Off The Grid]

Being more valuable to a team isn't an indicator of being the better player.

THANK you.

And any objective comparison between Brady and Manning can only serve to embarrass Manning.

And I'm "speaking" as probably the only Yankee in all of New England who likes Manning.

 

[strngplyr]

This debate is stupid.

"But NE went 11-5 without Brady!"
New England won 16 regular season games in 2007. When Brady went down we saw a FIVE game decline and missed the playoffs.

Our Backup QB happened to be competent and spent a few seasons learning the offense behind one of the greatest Quarterbacks ever. He had a very good receiving corps and defense to help him out.

New England led by Tom Brady has THREE 14-2 seasons, one 16-0 season, and THREE Superbowl Championships while appearing in four.

64-6 and 2-1 in the Superbowl through those four seasons. What has Manning led the Colts to that come close?

The only thing Peyton Manning has over Tom Brady in this argument is regular season passing numbers supported by one of the most consistent wide receiving corps in the league over the last decade. How many teams get lucky with Marvin Harrison's and Reggie Wayne's like that? Dallas Clark isn't too bad either, ya know?

TB is playing this team sport called football. Manning plays catch to pad his stats.

 

[tobias funke]

Can someone list the decent teams Matt Cassel helped the Patriots beat in 2008?

Does a gimmicky Miami team (on the 2nd try) count?

Let me make something clear, I really, really like Matt Cassel. What he did for the team in 2008 was nothing short of miraculous, at times. He got better and better every week, made very few critical mistakes, and kept us in games that could have gotten out of hand quickly.

He also suffered some incredibly boneheaded mistakes by his teammates in a few games vs. good teams: Gaffney's drop and Thomas' shove vs. the Colts, Randy's drops and Slater's muff vs. the Steelers, the defense allowing the Jets to convert 3rd and 15).

And it was disappointing that he didn't get a chance to show his mettle in the playoffs that year, because I don't think anyone wanted to play the Patriots in the postseason.

But all of that being said, the schedule was what it was. I think we can all agree that Brady would have won all 11 of those games, and likely a few more (Steelers, Jets, Colts very likely, Chargers maybe). Even some of the very bad teams gave the Pats a run for their money that they likely wouldn't have with Brady (Rams by 6? Seahawks by 3? ech).

 

[ausbacker]

THANK you.

And any objective comparison between Brady and Manning can only serve to embarrass Manning.

And I'm "speaking" as probably the only Yankee in all of New England who likes Manning.

I happen to think Manning is a super QB and a super player but given 1 drive to win a Superbowl in the playoffs I will always take Tom Brady. Always.

 

[patsfan-1982]

You're only looking at losses. Yes I agree the Colts have more losses without Manning. But you also have to look at wins. The Patriots have fewer playoff wins and Super Bowls without Brady.

The measure of the QB is only half-complete if you're looking at how much worse off his team would be without him.

You also have to look at how much success the team has had BECAUSE of him.

That's the flip side of the coin.

Anyone who focuses on the potential losses the Colts would suffer needs to also take into account the big WINS Brady brought to his team, and it's because of those wins that Brady surpasses Manning in value to his team.

i think your missing my point its not that Manning is better then Brady but that the pats are better then the colts... BB had a defense full of JAG's rookies and 2th year players and lots of injury yet they still lead the NFL in takwaways and i think give up the fewest points in the second half of the season, the pats are just better at replaceing players then any team in the NFL

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Can someone list the decent teams Matt Cassel helped the Patriots beat in 2008?

Does a gimmicky Miami team (on the 2nd try) count?

Technically speaking, you're conflating two fundamentally different things:

(1) Games in which Cassel didn't play well;
(2) Games the Patriots lost.

There were three games where Cassel didn't play well enough to pull out the win, IMO: vs. Miami, Steelers, and Chargers.

OTOH, in the first Miami game, for example, the complete meltdown with respect to the Wildcat most certainly was not Cassel's fault, nor was he aided by the worst "in the grasp" call I've ever seen.

Against the Colts and the JEST, the team let Cassel down, not vice versa.

 

[jcdavey]

solely based on watching peyton and brady play my chargers

no question....brady's MUCH better in that regard


i've never seen brady go full on ****** like peyton does a few times per year

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

i think your missing my point its not that Manning is better then Brady but that the pats are better then the colts... BB had a defense full of JAG's rookies and 2th year players and lots of injury yet they still lead the NFL in takwaways and i think give up the fewest points in the second half of the season, the pats are just better at replaceing players then any team in the NFL

Plus we've never seen Jim Sorgi play a full season or even compete for a few games. Right now Cassell is a starter on a pro football team and Sorgi is still backing up.

It'd be interesting to see how the $$$ spent have gain offensive points and/or mirror how the defense has given up points. I suspect that the Colts have spent more money on offense, so I would expect Manning to put up more points than Brady. Then let's compare the dollars to the points earned and see how it nets out.

 

[Keyser Söze]

Just as the "NFLN Top 100" show started, I heard a rumor that Brady/Manning would be tied at #1. That would be a pathetic joke. Brady IS the better QB, and showed it in the most recent season. These Manning ball washers look at his padded regular season stats from 4+ years ago, when it has no relevance now.

Ray Lewis will be presenting Brady BTW

 

[Username]

Could Brady achieve what Manning has at Indy if he was a Colt? No question about it.

Could Manning achieve what Brady has at New England if he was a Patriot? Hmmmm...not so sure...

 

[Keyser Söze]

No team spends more $ or draft picks on offense than the Colts, Brady has done FAR more with less. And of course we are spoiled, lets be realistic...Brady's weapons would be absolute trash on any other team. They arent fast, tall or even very physical. Imagine if Brady played his home games in a dome like the pink forehead freak. Manning choked when the SB was on the line. I wouldn't even have him in the top 5 for this show. Yes, this gets me annoyed..especially when Brady gets the "system QB" bs label.

 

[Deus Irae]

Seems to me that, outside of the media members with a vested interest in keeping the debate going, Brady/Manning has become more of a condescendingly polite discussion than a debate. The league votes Brady, the numbers say Brady and the titles say Brady.

Manning's better on camera, though, so he's got that going for him.

 

[patsinthesnow]

I agree with most said, however, to be fair I want to mention one thing that only gets brought up from Bradys side in the argument.

I believe, like Brady and the Pats, Peyton makes his weapons appear better than they actually are.

When Clark went down, he made Jacob Tamme, a complete unknown, look like a stud. Im not sure Clark is that great on another team.

Hes made Pierre Garcon, a crappy WR IMO, shine in alot of moments.

I dont think Reggie Wayne is an All pro type WR. Hes probably a very good WR on other tesms. Satan even made Blair White look good.

Just being objective, I believe the colts weapons are better, but not by much.

 

[randomk1]

I agree with most said, however, to be fair I want to mention one thing that only gets brought up from Bradys side in the argument.

I believe, like Brady and the Pats, Peyton makes his weapons appear better than they actually are.

When Clark went down, he made Jacob Tamme, a complete unknown, look like a stud. Im not sure Clark is that great on another team.

Hes made Pierre Garcon, a crappy WR IMO, shine in alot of moments.

I dont think Reggie Wayne is an All pro type WR. Hes probably a very good WR on other tesms. Satan even made Blair White look good.

Just being objective, I believe the colts weapons are better, but not by much.

I think that's fairly disrespectful towards Clark and Wayne. Those guys are definately studs and they make plays week in and week out for Manning.

And i honestly wouldn't be too suprised if some unknown guy puts up good numbers in the Colts pass-happy offense. Coach Manning needs to get his stats somehow,right? But keep in mind...with Clark,Collie missing...Manning was struggling.

 

[strngplyr]

I agree with most said, however, to be fair I want to mention one thing that only gets brought up from Bradys side in the argument.

I believe, like Brady and the Pats, Peyton makes his weapons appear better than they actually are.

When Clark went down, he made Jacob Tamme, a complete unknown, look like a stud. Im not sure Clark is that great on another team.

Hes made Pierre Garcon, a crappy WR IMO, shine in alot of moments.

I dont think Reggie Wayne is an All pro type WR. Hes probably a very good WR on other tesms. Satan even made Blair White look good.

Just being objective, I believe the colts weapons are better, but not by much.

Wayne, Harrison, and Clark are all still very good, whether you want to call them all-pro or not, Manning has had them his entire career. (Not each of them for every year, but he's had something)

Brady's biggest threat for his early Career was Branch and Faulk. As good as they are with Brady, we know what Branch did and I don't think Faulk would be used as creatively on another team.

He didn't have anyone truly worth mentioning until Moss came along and then look what happened that season as far as numbers go, with no prior chemistry.