NFL suspends Payton, Loomis & Williams; strips Saints of two draft picks

[PatsFanSince74]

Depends on who your coach is, but in this case you may be right, it's going to kill the teams morale for the year.

or, it could make them mad. remember the pats went 16--0 after spygate.

 

[Big-T]

Isn't that the guy who would have been the interim coach if they didn't go outside? So, now they have no one on board who can step in. Pretty devastating to a team coming up on the draft.

Yep the Saints wanted Vitt to replace Payton...so the league gave Vitt a 6 game suspension just to mess with them some more.

 

[PatsSox363804]

or, it could make them mad. remember the pats went 16--0 after spygate.

We had our coach. Paytons offensive play calling is what really drives that team.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Since picks were being taken away, no way they should have gotten away without losing a first rounder.

That was my initial reaction, too. But since they don't have a first rounder this year, that would have meant letting them skate for a year before getting hit at the draft. That assumes that a second this year plus a first next year would be excessive, which I think it would have been.

Also, the context here is that, since they don't have a pick until #91 now, they are being penalized pretty harshly. My blood lust is satisfied.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Schefter says suspension will cost Payton his $7 million salary.

Ow.

Edit: Seems obvious, cuz that's what's happens when you're suspended .. .you don't get paid. But to see it put that way. Wow.

I thought it was four...but seven!!! That's a lot of "straight cash homey."

 

[voluntarysaftey]

Yeah, and when your company offers a bonus if you 'get' some account, do you consider that gambling, as well?

Because that's what this was, only it was merely a quasi-official bonus system. What makes it wrong is not the bonuses. What makes it wrong is what the bonuses were for. Hell, the league allows for contractual bonuses for things like sacks and interceptions.

I agree with what you said -- it's not gambling.
There are however, likely violations of IRS laws -- I wonder if that will end up weighing in against anyone -- There's two ways you could look at these bonuses -- as straight income, or as a gift; but that gift at these figures would've been taxable.

 

[mgteich]

Let's focus on the bounty for harming players. The other payments for forced fumbles and so forth violate league rules and need to be dealt with separately, if at all. In any case, that kind of bonus should stop going forward. Gambling is defined with the CBA and in the English language. This is not gambling.

We are paying someone to assault another. Obviously, the quarterbacks targeted could sue the Saints and the league, and would likely win big bucks. Given the arrogance of the Saints, I think that this should be considered by the quarterbacks, with the idea that any proceeds go to some player fund.

===============
THE ARROGANCE OF THE SAINTS
They used this tactic to win a Super Bowl. They were found out and the nfl investigated in 2010. The Saints continued this practice for two more seasons. The management lied to the league from 2010 until a couple of weeks ago. The Saints expected Peyton to be suspended for part of the year. They already had an interim coach in mind. Apparently their attitude was, and is, that they are prepared to deal with the penalties and move on. The owner has assured everyone that he supports his GM and coaches. This is outrageous!

Sean Peyton should be fired for cause. Perhaps might be if he violated what his employer expected of him. Apparently, he did not.

What has happened on other teams should not be compared with this conduct. As I said, many teams had pools for interceptions and so forth (harmless IMHO). These too are league violations and the league must choose how to deal with this conduct. IMHO, this aspect should simply deal with by a "clarification of league rules" signed off the NFLPA, with no penalties for past violations.

HOWEVER, with the Saints, we are talking about attacks on individual players. As nfln commentators have noted, this has not been acceptable since free agency came into the league.

BE PREPARED FOR SEVERE PLAYER PENALTIES
Goodell has asked the players' union for their recommendations. This was a great move.
The players made player safety a huge issue in their contract negotiations. We will now see how much they really meant what they said. The nfl is a brotherhood. Such behavior is unacceptable. For example, I don't expect Vilma to play this year.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Goodell's intention is obviously to end any chance that the Saints win the SB next season and with the moves he did,he insured it is going to be a long season down in the Bayou.

If I am a player that is going to get drafted this season,I cross my fingers and pray that N.O. isn't calling me to tell me I am going to be a Saint.

I REALLY feel sorry for the Saints fans who obviously have nothing to do with the scandal,yet might be forced to watching and following a team that is downright downtrodden before April even begins.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Damn......... Rog dropped the hammer on dem saints.

Suspensions are warranted, harsh as they may be, those individuals actions directly condoned behavior which put careers in jeopardy. They individually have to pay.

As for the picks. They are appropriate. The organization had to pay, but there were clearly attempts by the owner to stop the program once he knew it existed. That probably was enough to spare 1 rounders. The loss of the HC and GM is also heavy penalty for the organization.

 

[mgteich]

I don't feel sorry for Saints fans. As with the Raiders of old, the fans knew what kind of team they were rooting for. The wild cheers for the continued late hits of Favre are instructive.

At a time when 31 teams were moving toward protecting players safety, the Saints brought in a coaching staff to win by any means. And so they did, with wild support from the fans.

.

I REALLY feel sorry for the Saints fans who obviously have nothing to do with the scandal,yet might be forced to watching and following a team that is downright downtrodden before April even begins.

 

[voluntarysaftey]

Goodell's intention is obviously to end any chance that the Saints win the SB next season and with the moves he did,he insured it is going to be a long season down in the Bayou.

I don't think Goddell was thinking 'let me punish them up until the point they can't win the sb'.

But I do think Goddell came down harshly on all the coaches involved since the coach should be an ethical role model for the players and any coach that advocates for intentional injuring of players (or in Payton's case, is complicit in) should be punished more harshly then players who do the same.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

I don't feel sorry for Saints fans. As with the Raiders of old, the fans knew what kind of team they were rooting for. The wild cheers for the continued late hits of Favre are instructive.

At a time when 31 teams were moving toward protecting players safety, the Saints brought in a coaching staff to win by any means. And so they did, with wild support from the fans.

I don't think fans knew that the players they were rooting for were bounty hunters ready to take a guys head off for money.

In NE we stand up and cheer in our seats every time Sanchez gets leveled but that doesn't mean we know something crooked was going on,had it happened here.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

At a time when 31 teams were moving toward protecting players safety, the Saints brought in a coaching staff to win by any means. And so they did, with wild support from the fans.

Before you start impugning the fans here: did they know what Williams was doing?

 

[vyrago]

That is roughly equal to the 2012 #45/46 --- yeah that is a bit light given precedent

Saints had no #1 pick this year; Patriots have it. Ironic, no?

 

[TomPatriot]

It wasn't gambling.

Look up the definition. If you're at the poker table, you put money in the pot and whoever gets the chance to supply the big hit to put someone out gets the money. That's defined as gambling.

 

[pork3]

But the investigation also showed that there was a deliberate effort to conceal the program’s existence from investigators. The league said that when Payton was interviewed this year about the bounties, he claimed to be entirely unaware of the program, which was contradicted by others interviewed. The investigation found that before the Saints’ season-opening game in 2011 against the Green Bay Packers, Payton received an e-mail message from a close associate — believed to be Mike Ornstein, a marketing agent who is also a convicted felon — that stated, in part, “PS Greg Williams put me down for $5000 on Rogers.” When Payton was shown the e-mail during the investigation, Payton acknowledged that it was a bounty on Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers.

A bit disturbing...

-Jamman

 

[Avenger]

That was my initial reaction, too. But since they don't have a first rounder this year, that would have meant letting them skate for a year before getting hit at the draft. That assumes that a second this year plus a first next year would be excessive, which I think it would have been.

Also, the context here is that, since they don't have a pick until #91 now, they are being penalized pretty harshly. My blood lust is satisfied.

The trade was a first for a second and future first, so 2nd this year + 1st Next year = 1st this year. Penalty should be 2nd this year first next year.

 

[MP-Logick]

All the Saints fans can talk about is how they got punished really harshly and Belichick got off easy. So frankly they can all go **** themselves.

 

[mgteich]

OK, perhaps I am overreacting. But I think that loyal fans know when their coaches are sanctioning dirty play.

Before you start impugning the fans here: did they know what Williams was doing?

 

[Urgent]

Really interesting question on what you do with the head coach.

You obviously have to go out and get another coach. Do you make him interim for an entire year?
Do you bring back the coach that cost the organization so much disruption due to his decisions and leadership?

I think it is very tough to ask the fanbase to support an interim coach, and then bring back the penalized coach a year later.
I think it is very tough to recruit a decent coach for that situation. You can't steal a Harbaugh from Stanford, someone successful who would be giving up a great job.
You can maybe get a coach emeritus guy - talk a long-retired coach into coming back. Vermeil? Wait, is that the Tuna's music? Maybe Dungy, to come in and clean things up?

So, then you have a new coach. There's an assistant head coach also suspended. Can the new coach bring in his own staff? Or is it way too late in the season? How does the new coach relate to the staff in place? What if the systems don't fit?

And then what about the other coaches. Do they end up getting canned, late in the offseason?

There are no easy answers here. I think a coach emeritus is the only way to make something work short-term. The easier thing is to flush the whole coaching staff, make a play for someone to turn the program around.