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My Blueprint for the Defense


You wouldn't be saying that when Someone like Bucannon gives up a 60 yard run because he missed a tackle or is caught way out of position on a deep ball. Not minding being exposed means not minding having Tavon Wilson as a starter.

If you have more team speed one guy missing a tackle doesn't translate into a 60 yard run. How many times has Gregory or another safety playing contain missed a tackle that led to a 60 yard TD? In the game @ Foxboro Moreno catches a screen and 3rd and 20 something and converts. There was a play in 2012 and I wish I could remember against who but a receiver or back catches a pass out on the right side by the LOS and Arrington, Mayo and Gregory have him boxed in. Arrington whiffs, Mayo paused and gets sealed on one side and Gregory the same on the other and it goes for a 60+ yard TD.

I'll take the aggressive mistakes. Death by a thousand papercuts is bleeding me out.
 
When I think if Gregory, I always think of him on third down getting beat by a tight end or missing a key tackle on a running play.

I have no doubt that he is intelligent, but I just want an upgrade at that position. It seems like every game we are getting killed by a tight end, it's just so frustrating. He also doesn't bring any intimidation to the game either. All opponent's receivers have no fear going across the middle against us. With Spikes most likely leaving , we need a physical presence in the middle and I think it has to start at the safety position.

I think that most positions can be upgraded, it's just a question of prioritising where those upgrades should be and for me, there are a lot more positions in need of help before safety. And if you are looking for a more physical presence in the middle in the absence of Spikes, then look no further than Jamie Collins who will probably be more explosive than any safety available in the draft.
 
I said this in another thread but Gregory isn't as good as his proponents make him out to be and he's not as bad as his detractors will try to say either. If there was a stat like WAR or VORP in football Gregory would come out as a zero which is to say completely average. I'm sick of average at the safety position and want a difference maker.

This is pretty much it. I think manx is under the impression that I'm saying he's terrible, which is definitely not where I'm going. He's average to slightly below average depending on the play or the game you're looking at. But that's about it. When you look at the secondary, he's the weakness. Up next is Arrington but, as long as Arrington is covering the slot, he's not as big of a weakness as Gregory is. Replace Gregory with someone who can cover, come up into the box against the run, and de-cleat the slot receivers and TE's of the world between the numbers, and you have a safety that completely changes the back end of the defense.
 
This is pretty much it. I think manx is under the impression that I'm saying he's terrible, which is definitely not where I'm going. He's average to slightly below average depending on the play or the game you're looking at. But that's about it. When you look at the secondary, he's the weakness. Up next is Arrington but, as long as Arrington is covering the slot, he's not as big of a weakness as Gregory is. Replace Gregory with someone who can cover, come up into the box against the run, and de-cleat the slot receivers and TE's of the world between the numbers, and you have a safety that completely changes the back end of the defense.

I think Ryan is going to move ahead of Arrington next year on the depth chart. He had an awful game against Denver but who didn't. I think his body of work for a rookie was outstanding.
 
I think that most positions can be upgraded, it's just a question of prioritising where those upgrades should be and for me, there are a lot more positions in need of help before safety. And if you are looking for a more physical presence in the middle in the absence of Spikes, then look no further than Jamie Collins who will probably be more explosive than any safety available in the draft.

I am really looking forward to Collins having a full year under his belt and seeing how good he can be!!!!
 
This is pretty much it. I think manx is under the impression that I'm saying he's terrible, which is definitely not where I'm going. He's average to slightly below average depending on the play or the game you're looking at. But that's about it. When you look at the secondary, he's the weakness. Up next is Arrington but, as long as Arrington is covering the slot, he's not as big of a weakness as Gregory is. Replace Gregory with someone who can cover, come up into the box against the run, and de-cleat the slot receivers and TE's of the world between the numbers, and you have a safety that completely changes the back end of the defense.

I'm not saying you think that, I just think you are overplaying the need a bit. You just described the perfect safety and we all want that. Question is, where do you find him?
 
I think Ryan is going to move ahead of Arrington next year on the depth chart. He had an awful game against Denver but who didn't. I think his body of work for a rookie was outstanding.

Hopefully we can just simply cut Arrington in the offseason and dump his salary. I hate the contract that he was offered.
 
I'm not saying you think that, I just think you are overplaying the need a bit. You just described the perfect safety and we all want that. Question is, where do you find him?

The perfect safety is Ronnie Lott in the 80's because he was the best in the world at doing all of those things. We don't need the best in the world at doing those things, we just need someone that can do them better than Gregory. That shouldn't be too hard to find and there are a good amount of other teams in the league that haven't had an impossible time finding that guy.
 
Hopefully we can just simply cut Arrington in the offseason and dump his salary. I hate the contract that he was offered.

Costs cap to cut him. 2.7M according to Miguel. Inexplicable contract.
 
Costs cap to cut him. 2.7M according to Miguel. Inexplicable contract.

Terrible contract. I said so at the time. Especially in a bear market for DBs
 
DE: A rotational DE or two who can share time with Jones and Ninkovich.

Yeah.

S: Our "Kam Chancellor".

I'm on board with this 100%. A Chancellor type would bring an element of physicality and toughness we haven't had in a while. It would also allow McCourty to play like more of a free safety role like Earl Thomas thus optimizing his talents as well. Gregory doesn't compliment McCourty like a Chancellor type would.

Chancellor is a rare specimen -- he's one of the best, but I don't think "our Chancellor" has to be that good. As long as he's a talent upgrade over Gregory and a better fit/more complimentary player to McCourty then we'll see a big effect on the defense.

Maybe Pryor is that guy. Maybe (RFA) Brandon Browner is available. Maybe Mark Barron is available under Tampa Bay's new GM and coach. I think any of those guys would help fill the hole.
 
Is it possible to say there's a direct correlation between his injury and his role? Plenty of college players get injured. He wouldn't play only as an enforcer, he'd he a slot corner who plays very well in run support like Arrington. In fairness he'd be too much of a luxury with Arrington and Ryan on the team but my real point was that these big hitting safeties are just too limited as players. Would Chancellor look as good on a defense without Sherman and Thomas? I think he'd be quite badly exposed.

I have no idea whether there's a direct correlation or not. As I've said, I like Fuller a lot, but a guy with a 6' 194# frame generally isn't going to be someone who can take a ton of pounding, and I note that he did get banged up. It's just a question I have - I think he could be a great coverage S and could probably be fairly physical, but can he stand up to the pounding? I don't know. That's all I'm saying.

Earl Thomas is much, much more physical than Devin McCourty, and he seems to hold up pretty well. In general, I think that the Pats' could benefit from being more physical, something that I thought was a factor in the AFCCG against the Ravens in 2012. McCourty has great range and smarts, but he's not particularly physical. Jerod Mayo is nowhere near is physical as guys like Willis and Bowman.

Would Chancellor be as good without Sherman and Thomas? Probably not, but Talib and McCourty are reasonably good facsimiles as far as a big press-man CB and a rangy safety go. Probably not quite as good, but both were 2nd team All Pro. In truth, I don't think Buchannon is truly Chancellor, I think he's in-between Chancellor and Dashon Goldson, which is not a bad mix. I like Calvin Pryor more, but if Buchannon comes a full round cheaper he's good value. I think that with proper coaching he could limit the mistakes, and he has the raw tools to not be a huge liability in coverage. Gregory's no prize in coverage, for that matter.

I struggle with who would be the ideal type of safety opposite McCourty. Obviously, we don't want someone who is a huge liability in coverage, or who makes a few splash plays but gets burned a ton. But Gregory seems too soft to me, and we might do better laying down some clear ground rules to opposing offenses for what they can expect when they go over the middle of the field instead of suffering death by a thousand paper cuts. And the Pats' D hasn't exactly excelled at preventing the big play, despite that being a priority of BB's.

I don't know the answer, I've struggled with this one a lot, and I've come down on slightly different sides of the fence at different times. Both this year and at the end of last year I've come down on the side of wanting a more physical presence, but again, I'm not pretending to know the answer on this one.
 
Costs cap to cut him. 2.7M according to Miguel. Inexplicable contract.

Thank you for the correction. Yeah, that was an absolutely god awful decision.
 
How long has it been since we've seen a Pats safety do this?
 
Trying yo find the next chancellor is like trying to draft the next Gronk or Calvin Johnson. It's nice in theory but the reason those players stick out so much is because they are so rare. I'd much rather have another McCourty next to McCourty than trying to make a splash with our draft pick. Give me a guy who can consistently cover and is a reliable (not devastating) tackler. While aggressive safety play is sexy I don't think it's effective. It probably cost the 49ers a Super Bowl appearance this year.

The Seahawks secondary is sexy because their front is wildly underrated and ridiculously effective. If we shore up our front guys like Harmon, Arrington and Hightower are going to look A LOT better.
 
How long has it been since we've seen a Pats safety do this?

Then there's this:

Pryor's Miraculous One-Hand INT In Endzone - ESPN Video - ESPN

Here's a nice writeup on Pryor:

Y! SPORTS

And Pryor's former DC (and former Chicago Bears DB coach) had this to say:

Former Louisville defensive coordinator Vance Bedford — who's now at Texas — said that when Pryor hit receivers, some never returned.

“He had three games in a row where he hit somebody and they did not finish the game,” Bedford said. “He doesn’t want to injure anybody, but he brings a certain physicality that if you’re going to throw the ball down the middle of the field, you’re going to pay a price.

“That’s how the game used to be played. He did things the right way and that’s what people like about him so much. And he’s a coach on the field—high football IQ. He controls everything. Gets guys lined up. Makes the checks. He does it all. He’s a guy Louisville is going to miss next year and I wish I had him here with me at Texas right now.”

The streak of knockouts began with Louisville’s lone loss, to Central Florida. That game, receiver J.J. Worton accelerated up the left sideline and Pryor dropped him with a vicious left shoulder.

“Clean hits,” Bedford said. “He made sure he didn’t lead with his head. He understands the game.”

Of course, hitting and tackling are two very different concepts. And this is a league that cracks down on head-to-head hits. At Louisville, Pryor finished 75 tackles (54 solo) last season. He was around the ball plenty, too, intercepting seven passes with nine forced fumbles in three years. Saying that Pryor never led with his head, Bedford was adament that Pryor, “No. 1,” is a “sound tackler.”

Bedford says Pryor’s football intellect is “off the charts" at free safety. “He’s another coach on the football field," Bedford said. "He makes checks. He gets guys lined up. He does it all.”

Bedford would know the difficulties in a college safety making the NFL jump. He coached the Chicago Bears defensive backs from 1999 to 2004. During that run, safety Mike Brown and cornerback Nathan Vasher both emerged as playmakers.

“And Calvin Pryor reminds me of a bigger Mike Brown,” Bedford said.

During their time together, Brown studied every position on the defense. He knew where help was, where he was vulnerable. The result was a feeding frenzy of turnovers.

“He was a coach on the football field,” Bedford said. “That’s always what separated him. He understood the game and he understood the defense. A lot of guys go out there and play, learning just one spot. And you wonder, why doesn’t he make that play? It’s because he didn’t take time to learn where his help was. Mike Brown understood the entire defense.

That’s what makes great players. Understanding the entire defense. Calvin Pryor is a lot like that.

First Draft: Against S Calvin Pryor, 'you're going to pay a price' - JSOnline
 
How long has it been since we've seen a Pats safety do this?

Yeah, that type of hit would automatically draw a 15 yard penalty flag in today's NFL though.

But the point is taken, we need to find a physical, hard hitting safety who is decent at coverage. Now where is that guy?
 


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