My Blueprint for the Defense

[captain stone]

I'm worried about his health if he plays any more than some surprise-the-OL snaps there.

 

[nickw308810]

What are your thoughts on Kelcy Quarles if the Pats miss out on Donald and Easley? Not talked about much on here and got a lot of pressure from the inside, granted with Clowney getting a lot of attention.

 

[mayoclinic]

What are your thoughts on Kelcy Quarles if the Pats miss out on Donald and Easley? Not talked about much on here and got a lot of pressure from the inside, granted with Clowney getting a lot of attention.

I don't claim to have studied Quarles in tremendous depth, but my impression is of a hard working blue collar guy with nice positional versatility who lacks the kind of explosiveness and disruptive capability of guys like Donald and Easley. He's more of a bull rusher, and his Combine numbers are consistent with a lack of explosiveness (1.81 10-split, 27" vertical, 8'6" broad jump). I don't really think of him in the same way as Donald or Easley at all.

 

[patchick]

Re Fede, Moore & Webster at DE:

Yeah, those are my 3 wild card guys. "Unusually intriguing" is about right. I like those 3 guys better than pretty much better than anyone outside of the top 2 rounds.

I know it can be a tempting mirage, chasing potential in players who haven't yet shown their weaknesses simply because they haven't been tested. But so many of the bigger-name DEs this year, even if they DO pan out, project to situational players rather than 3-down guys. They either lack the explosiveness to make a dent in the pass rush, or they're just small and too easily overpowered to be a legit DE in a 4-3 base.

I've been playing with a mock that addresses risk by targeting 2 of the 3 small-school guys.

 

[mayoclinic]

Re Fede, Moore & Webster at DE:

I know it can be a tempting mirage, chasing potential in players who haven't yet shown their weaknesses simply because they haven't been tested. But so many of the bigger-name DEs this year, even if they DO pan out, project to situational players rather than 3-down guys. They either lack the explosiveness to make a dent in the pass rush, or they're just small and too easily overpowered to be a legit DE in a 4-3 base.

I've been playing with a mock that addresses risk by targeting 2 of the 3 small-school guys.

I still haven't decided whether I like Larry Webster better as a DE or a TE conversion prospect. He certainly has tremendous athleticism. He's not a base DE, but as a sub rusher or a Dion Jordan kind of hybrid space player, he could excel. But he also has the raw tools to become a Jordan Cameron kind of TE.

As Manx notes, Fede is very reminiscent of Chandler Jones in his size, athleticism, and playing style.

Moore isn't quite as mobile as the other 2 guys, but his size is terrific and he's reasonably athletic. He has terrific scheme and positional versatility, and is reportedly very coachable.

Any day 3 prospect is a projection (probably any draft project). I agree with you that I'm not impressed with the bigger names at DE, especially base DE - there are some solid sub-rusher/hybrid edge players but they won't be every down linemen, and most of the every down linemen lack explosiveness. Aaron Lynch was perhaps the best bet for that kind of package, but he's been nothing but disappointing in terms of his weight and movement skills. I'm much more favorably impressed by the 3 small school guys.

 

[BelichickFan]

Where are you guys looking at playing the classic 6'5", 310 lb DL that we used to look at for our 5 tech. DE, the Seymour/Warren types ? We have Armstead in that range and there's some in the draft like Hageman and Truitt, at least one of which should be available for us. But would they be DT for us now or DE ? If Armstead will be a DT then our need is much more dramatic at DE, if he will be a DE then it's closer. I think Bill referrered to him as a DT late last season when he referredt to losing our top 3 DT (Wilfork, Kelly, presumably Armstead) but I'm out of my comfort zone since we changed from the classic 3-4.

 

[manxman2601]

Where are you guys looking at playing the classic 6'5", 310 lb DL that we used to look at for our 5 tech. DE, the Seymour/Warren types ? We have Armstead in that range and there's some in the draft like Hageman and Truitt, at least one of which should be available for us. But would they be DT for us now or DE ? If Armstead will be a DT then our need is much more dramatic at DE, if he will be a DE then it's closer. I think Bill referrered to him as a DT late last season when he referredt to losing our top 3 DT (Wilfork, Kelly, presumably Armstead) but I'm out of my comfort zone since we changed from the classic 3-4.

At least from my perspective, I like the fact that Hageman and Tuitt can play 3-4 DE or 4-3 DT. In Tuitt's case, he can play 4-3 DE too. This is why I've locked onto them rather than traditional 3-techs like Timmy Jernigan. BB still looks for those 5-tech bodies.

 

[mayoclinic]

Where are you guys looking at playing the classic 6'5", 310 lb DL that we used to look at for our 5 tech. DE, the Seymour/Warren types ? We have Armstead in that range and there's some in the draft like Hageman and Truitt, at least one of which should be available for us. But would they be DT for us now or DE ? If Armstead will be a DT then our need is much more dramatic at DE, if he will be a DE then it's closer. I think Bill referrered to him as a DT late last season when he referredt to losing our top 3 DT (Wilfork, Kelly, presumably Armstead) but I'm out of my comfort zone since we changed from the classic 3-4.

I don't see a return to the 3-4 base in our future. I see us primarily being a 4-3 with "multiple" fronts and schemes. The traditional 5-tech could play a 3-tech role in a 4-3, or could play LDE in a 4-3 under scheme. I'm less interested in a 2-gapping 3-4 DE, though I have some interest in guys like Tuitt, Brent Urban and Deandre Coleman, all of whom have enough explosiveness and versatility to be interesting.

 

[BelichickFan]

At least from my perspective, I like the fact that Hageman and Tuitt can play 3-4 DE or 4-3 DT. In Tuitt's case, he can play 4-3 DE too. This is why I've locked onto them rather than traditional 3-techs like Timmy Jernigan. BB still looks for those 5-tech bodies.

I agree and I find these guys appealing being able to play in a variety of fronts and schemes. I'm just having a difficult time with this draft needing DL but not knowing what we're looking for. With Nix being largely a pure NT, Ford being a pure pass rusher and way too small in the past, I'm thouroughly confused, but I think Bill still wantes bigger DE but ones with the athleticism to create a pass rush. DT was such a mess last year it's difficult to tell.

 

[manxman2601]

I agree and I find these guys appealing being able to play in a variety of fronts and schemes. I'm just having a difficult time with this draft needing DL but not knowing what we're looking for. With Nix being largely a pure NT, Ford being a pure pass rusher and way too small in the past, I'm thouroughly confused, but I think Bill still wantes bigger DE but ones with the athleticism to create a pass rush. DT was such a mess last year it's difficult to tell.

To be fair, BB hasn't placed very much emphasis on interior DL in the draft for a long time now. The last high pick was Ron Brace. It seems to be a position he likes to fill through FA.

 

[BelichickFan]

To be fair, BB hasn't placed very much emphasis on interior DL in the draft for a long time now. The last high pick was Ron Brace. It seems to be a position he likes to fill through FA.

Drafting Brace that high would probably scare anyone off from doing it again :bricks:

Unlike some, I'm not expecting much at DT, maybe a mid round pick but unless Silinga was a mirage and if they're seriously concerned about Armstead long term I think we're OK there - though getting a little old with Kelly and possibly Vince. DE is more uncertain - although I'll be curious if Buchanan comes back with a new upper body like many second year players do. But with DE weaker this year it's difficult not to look at the Tuitts and Hagemans as guys to rotate with Ninkovich and Chandler.

 

[manxman2601]

Drafting Brace that high would probably scare anyone off from doing it again :bricks:

Unlike some, I'm not expecting much at DT, maybe a mid round pick but unless Silinga was a mirage and if they're seriously concerned about Armstead long term I think we're OK there - though getting a little old with Kelly and possibly Vince. DE is more uncertain - although I'll be curious if Buchanan comes back with a new upper body like many second year players do. But with DE weaker this year it's difficult not to look at the Tuitts and Hagemans as guys to rotate with Ninkovich and Chandler.

I think Hageman is a good bet if he lasts to our pick. In terms of explosion numbers at the combine, he really is unique and he has ideal size too. Unfortunately I'm of the opinion that there's no way he lasts. Tuitt will depend on how the view Armstead. If they think Armstead can have a productive season then they probably won't go with Tuitt because they're probably too similar. The DE class this year is terrible. one of my favourites for the position is currently regarded as a UDFA. Shows you what I think of this class.

 

[mayoclinic]

Oliver Thomas of NEPatriotsDraft likes Manx's binky Jimmie Ward:

2014 NFL Draft Close-Up: Northern Illinois Safety Jimmie Ward | NEPatriotsDraft.com - 2014 NFL Draft

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

I haven't found one base 4-3 DE I like in the top 100 picks yet. Other than Jared Allen, the best plan might be to improve DT and LB depth to open up DE snaps for Armstead, Hightower, and Collins.

I think Jackson Jeffcoat could be a good nickel/dime sub-rusher, but not a base defense DE.

 

[mayoclinic]

I haven't found one base 4-3 DE I like in the top 100 picks yet. Other than Jared Allen, the best plan might be to improve DT and LB depth to open up DE snaps for Armstead, Hightower, and Collins.

Welcome to the club.

 

[manxman2601]

I haven't found one base 4-3 DE I like in the top 100 picks yet. Other than Jared Allen, the best plan might be to improve DT and LB depth to open up DE snaps for Armstead, Hightower, and Collins.

I think Jackson Jeffcoat could be a good nickel/dime sub-rusher, but not a base defense DE.

Welcome to the club.

Yup. kony Ealy and Kareem Martin are the best but neither thrill me. Although I have just noticed that Ealy has 34.25" arms which is pretty good.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

Welcome to the club.

Thanks, I would have been here a long time ago if I knew they were not going to sign a free agent.

Yup. kony Ealy and Kareem Martin are the best but neither thrill me. Although I have just noticed that Ealy has 34.25" arms which is pretty good.

I just finished watching film of them and was thoroughly underwhelmed.

 

[All22PatsFan]

Yup. kony Ealy and Kareem Martin are the best but neither thrill me. Although I have just noticed that Ealy has 34.25" arms which is pretty good.

Scott Chricton is probably me favorite real 43 DE outside of Clowney. I'd rather have Ford or Attachou though. I also think Dom Easley can play 43 End. I don't see it with Ealy I liked Michael Sam more. I haven't watched Martin but he seems interesting. Also Trent Murphy didn't impress me.

 

[manxman2601]

Thanks, I would have been here a long time ago if I knew they were not going to sign a free agent.



I just finished watching film of them and was thoroughly underwhelmed.

So was I but they seem like a good logical fit. I wasn't particularly 'whelmed' by Chandler Jones either. Have you checked out Terrence Fede's highlight video yet? Unfortunately it's all we have to go on. I prefer him to pretty much anyone else.

 

[manxman2601]

Scott Chricton is probably me favorite real 43 DE outside of Clowney. I'd rather have Ford or Attachou though. I also think Dom Easley can play 43 End. I don't see it with Ealy I liked Michael Sam more. I haven't watched Martin but he seems interesting. Also Trent Murphy didn't impress me.

Crichton doesn't thrill me either. Bad year for pass rushers. And yes Easley can play end.