More insanity about the Sawx

[Foley]

No matter how you slice it, Theo has engineered a $120 Million F-Troop. In some cultures he would be required to perform ritual suicide.

And about 60 million of that is either on the DL, or in Oritz and Mannys case, can't play because of injury and should be on the DL. I find it hard to believe that its Theos fault that half the team is injured.

 

[PatsWorldChamps]

And about 60 million of that is either on the DL, or in Oritz and Mannys case, can't play because of injury and should be on the DL. I find it hard to believe that its Theos fault that half the team is injured.

Mrs. Epstein, is that you again?

 

[Foley]

No. Just someone who realizes a GM can't control players getting cancer and heart problems.

 

[PatsWorldChamps]

No. Just someone who realizes a GM can't control players getting cancer and heart problems.

GM can control getting Abreau though... the sox were reeling before either of the two issues you mentioned came to light.

 

[Foley]

GM can control getting Abreau though... the sox were reeling before either of the two issues you mentioned came to light.

But not even close to the extent that they are now. Varitek, Nixon, Ortiz, Pena and Manny all got injured or had to go on the DL after the trading deadline and after Abreu went to New York. The team had their little problems at the deadline of course, but getting Abreu would not have fixed any of them. Where would he have played? All OF positions were completely healthy at the deadline and the only person who was slacking offensively was Crisp, and there is no chance that Abreu would have played CF.

Plus, its not like the Yankees got him for nothing. CJ Henry, despite a mediocre season, was a first round pick last year before Craig Hansen. And he was just one of four guys to go to the Phillies. The trade still would have cost a lot talent wise, in addition to the $30 million. Giving up that much talent and that much money for a guy that at the time they didn't need, and right now wouldn't be a difference maker, would be ludicrous.

 

[MDPATSFAN]

Meanwhile Grady Little has managed the Dodgers into first place with a $98 Million payroll and any semblance of the 2004 Sawx is gone.

 

[mtbykr]

Meanwhile Grady Little has managed the Dodgers into first place with a $98 Million payroll and any semblance of the 2004 Sawx is gone.

Let's not get carried away. I really like Grady, and i'm pissed that our FO has dumped the 04 team---however the sox still have a 2.5 game better record than the dodgers, and they don't play in the NL west!

 

[Foley]

Was getting rid of the 2004 team that bad? Who from that team would be a significant upgrade from what they have now?

Mueller has been on the DL all year and is doubtful to play again.
Millar and Mientkiewicz are having a decent years, but Youkilis is doing better than both.
Roberts has been injured a lot the past two years and is really just a part time player.
Bellhorn has been awful.
Pedro has been on the DL a lot this year because of several different injuries and has an ERA of 4 in the NL.
Lowe has been decent the past two years, but in the worst division in baseball. It would be a pretty safe bet that in the AL East his ERA would be closer to the 5.42 he had in 2004 than the 3.70 he has now.
Embree has been good, but like Lowe hes been good in the worst division in baseball.
Arroyo has been very good in the NL, and at the very worst he could be expected to be league average in Boston.
Cabrera has been good, but he is not worth $6M more than Gonzalez.
Damon has been great.

So Arroyo and Damon, in my opinion, are the only ones that are really missed from the 2004 team. I doubt Arroyo would be as good for Boston as hes been for Cincinnati, but what he would have obviously been better than Johnson, Jarvis and all the others.

 

[patriotspride]

put all those guys together collectivlly and they are better .

 

[Foley]

really?

2006------2004
Varitek = Varitek
Youkilis > Millar
Loretta > Bellhorn
Lowell > Mueller
Gonzalez < Cabrera (Cabrera is the better player, but not $6M better)
Manny = Manny
Crisp < Damon
Nixon = Nixon
Ortiz = Ortiz

Schilling = Schilling
Beckett > Pedro
Wake = Wake
Lester/Clement < Lowe (But no by a lot. Lester and Clement combine for 27 starts with a 5.58ERA, similar to that of Lowe in 2004)
Johnson/Gabbard/Tavarez/etc < Arroyo

Unless you truely believe that had they been resigned Pedro and Mueller would have magically stayed healthy, and Cabrera would have signed here for a lot less, and Millar and Bellhorn would have stopped sucking, and Lowe would have put up comparable numbers in the AL East to the numbers he put up in the NL West, then you have to realize that the 2004 team today would not be any better than the team as it currently is constructed.

Have they made mistakes since 2004? Absolutely. But getting rid of most of these guys are not mistakes. Most of the guys the got rid of from 2004 haven't gone on to do very well on their new teams or are only succeeding in crappy divisions, so why would they have done any better here?

 

[patriotspride]

really?

2006------2004
Varitek = Varitek
Youkilis > Millar
Loretta > Bellhorn
Lowell > Mueller
Gonzalez < Cabrera (Cabrera is the better player, but not $6M better)
Manny = Manny
Crisp < Damon
Nixon = Nixon
Ortiz = Ortiz

Schilling = Schilling
Beckett > Pedro
Wake = Wake
Lester/Clement < Lowe (But no by a lot. Lester and Clement combine for 27 starts with a 5.58ERA, similar to that of Lowe in 2004)
Johnson/Gabbard/Tavarez/etc < Arroyo

Unless you truely believe that had they been resigned Pedro and Mueller would have magically stayed healthy, and Cabrera would have signed here for a lot less, and Millar and Bellhorn would have stopped sucking, and Lowe would have put up comparable numbers in the AL East to the numbers he put up in the NL West, then you have to realize that the 2004 team today would not be any better than the team as it currently is constructed.

Have they made mistakes since 2004? Absolutely. But getting rid of most of these guys are not mistakes. Most of the guys the got rid of from 2004 haven't gone on to do very well on their new teams or are only succeeding in crappy divisions, so why would they have done any better here?

you can name all the stats you want but it doesnt change the fact that together that 2004 team was very special .the only stat that matters is they won and not only did they win they made history .ill take oc over any ss they have had since. i dont care how much he makes .ill take d lowe over clement or lester for that matter he proved he could pitch in boston under presure unlike clement .ill also take billy ball game over lowell .theres no way of knowing what would have happened in boston if he stayed .just because he got hurt in la doesnt mean you can assume he would have got hurt here .he was a great clutch hitter and a former batting champ with a great glove.you forgot to mention the great bench players we had thats also a big reason why they won .and not signing damon was a huge mistake .the sox are a big market team that could have come up with another 2 to 3 mil a year .they ****ed up.

 

[Foley]

you can name all the stats you want but it doesnt change the fact that together that 2004 team was very special .the only stat that matters is they won and not only did they win they made history .ill take oc over any ss they have had since. i dont care how much he makes .ill take d lowe over clement or lester for that matter he proved he could pitch in boston under presure unlike clement .ill also take billy ball game over lowell .theres no way of knowing what would have happened in boston if he stayed .just because he got hurt in la doesnt mean you can assume he would have got hurt here .he was a great clutch hitter and a former batting champ with a great glove.you forgot to mention the great bench players we had thats also a big reason why they won .and not signing damon was a huge mistake .the sox are a big market team that could have come up with another 2 to 3 mil a year .they ****ed up.

The 2004 team was great. In 2004. That team right now would be worse than the team that they have now and there are no two ways around it.

Cabrera hit .257 with a .309OBP last season. The Angels tried to give him away for nothing but every team passed on him becasue he is vastly overpayed, and although he may be a great guy, he is still a bad offensive hitter with a good glove. Better than Gonzalez, but not substantially.

And Lowe was TERRIBLE in 2004. Maybe he could pitch well under pressure, but he couldn't pitch well the entire regular season. A couple good starts in the post season doesn't overshadow what he did the rest of the year.

Mueller had knee trouble his entire career. Nothing actually happened to him to get injured this season, his bad knees just caught up with him. He'd have had the same problem here too. If he got a big contract with Boston and he got injured in the first few months and never played again would you be ok with that? Or would you complain about how the FO was stupid to have resigned a guy with knee trouble and they should have known better? People don't seem fine when Beckett, Clement, Crisp or anyone else comes in and struggles, but you'd be fine with Mueller being out and injured for a good part of his contract just because he was on the 2004 team?

Do you realize how moronic that sounds? You'd rather have a guy who hasn't played since early May over Lowell just becasue he was good in the past?

 

[patriotspride]

The 2004 team was great. In 2004. That team right now would be worse than the team that they have now and there are no two ways around it.

Cabrera hit .257 with a .309OBP last season. The Angels tried to give him away for nothing but every team passed on him becasue he is vastly overpayed, and although he may be a great guy, he is still a bad offensive hitter with a good glove. Better than Gonzalez, but not substantially.

And Lowe was TERRIBLE in 2004. Maybe he could pitch well under pressure, but he couldn't pitch well the entire regular season. A couple good starts in the post season doesn't overshadow what he did the rest of the year.

Mueller had knee trouble his entire career. Nothing actually happened to him to get injured this season, his bad knees just caught up with him. He'd have had the same problem here too. If he got a big contract with Boston and he got injured in the first few months and never played again would you be ok with that? Or would you complain about how the FO was stupid to have resigned a guy with knee trouble and they should have known better? People don't seem fine when Beckett, Clement, Crisp or anyone else comes in and struggles, but you'd be fine with Mueller being out and injured for a good part of his contract just because he was on the 2004 team?

Do you realize how moronic that sounds? You'd rather have a guy who hasn't played since early May over Lowell just becasue he was good in the past?

like i said before dr foley you have no idea if billy ball game would get hurt or not if he stayed in boston buy hey whatever helps your argument and he did get hurt again in la it wasnt somthing that caught up to him as you put it .the redsox were going to sign him again to a one year contract but he got two in la thats why he left .news flash gms and people thru out the world judge players by what they have done in the past unless they can see into the future like you can lol lol lowe had a bad year in the reg season in 2004 but pitched well in previous years you forgot to mention that but we cant judge him on his past according to you lol lol o cab isnt over paid and the sox could have signed him for less than rent a wreck at the time .ill take him over gonzo any day of the week.

 

[Foley]

like i said before dr foley you have no idea if billy ball game would get hurt or not if he stayed in boston buy hey whatever helps your argument and he did get hurt again in la it wasnt somthing that caught up to him as you put it .the redsox were going to sign him again to a one year contract but he got two in la thats why he left .news flash gms and people thru out the world judge players by what they have done in the past unless they can see into the future like you can lol lol lowe had a bad year in the reg season in 2004 but pitched well in previous years you forgot to mention that but we cant judge him on his past according to you lol lol o cab isnt over paid and the sox could have signed him for less than rent a wreck at the time .ill take him over gonzo any day of the week.

"Mueller will have fraying repaired and loose bodies removed. He also has a bone spur in the area, but it won't be known what other work will be needed until the surgery. Manager Grady Little said Mueller is expected to be sidelined four to five weeks.

Mueller was placed on the 15-day disabled list Friday. He has had trouble with the knee for years, but it flared up several weeks ago. After committing three errors in two games earlier this week, Mueller said he determined that the injury had compromised his ability to perform to the point where he had to have the surgery."

mlb.com

Fraying, loose bodies and a bone spur are things that would have happened anywhere, as they were an ongoing problem. Doesn't take a doctor to realize that.

And Lowe had a bad year in 2003 too. He was a good starter for Boston in 2002 and it was downhill since then.

And I can't see the future, no one can and thats my point. How can they be criticized for Beckett performing poorly when in the past he has been great, while at the same time be criticized for not resigning Mueller despite him going down with an inevitable injury? I can guarantee people would be whining up a storm for the FO resiging Mueller when he went down with an injury and missed most of his contract.

And if Cabrera isn't overpayed then why did every team in baseball pass on him when the Angels desperately tried to trade him for peanuts this offseason? $9M for a crappy hitter isn't overpaying? Please.