Montana vs Brady

[Snake Eyes]

Greg Cook and Bert Jones might have been among the best ever, but because of injuries we'll never know.

Before Montana, Walsh coached Cook in Cincinnati under Paul Brown. Walsh said that Cook might have been the best ever if he had not injured his shoulder....for which Walsh took great responsability since he was the one calling the play that lead the Cook's injury.

Cook fell completely wrong on that play, as did Brady on the play where Haynesworth slammed him in the 09 pre-season, and that’s the responsibility of the QB. While Walsh might have taken responsibility for the play the truth is that bad things can happen on the best designed play, something can fail out even if it was the smart thing to do going in.

 

[robbomango]

what I saw/experienced on my own. Montana was just amazing. I could never see the Colts playoff loss, the Giants SB loss, or the last couple of "one and dones" by Brady and Co. happen with a Joe Montana lead team.
was the best ever.

Joe had 3 dreadful 1 and dones 85, 87 88. with no TDs and 4INTs

 

[patsfan13]

Montana was the best player i've ever seen play. It's not a question of stats or superbowls, or winning percentage. You just see the difference on tape.

Montana had a tendency, during unimportant games, to sleepwalk a little bit for a few quarters. Then the 3rd and 4th quarter would arise, he'd proceed to wake up, and literally shred the D. In his prime, it was just silly how easy he made it look. Every decision was the correct one, every throw was perfect and even when the situation looked impossible he'd find a way. Pretty much best described as magic.

In many ways Brady is more consistent than Joe, but overall I don't think its really close either. Joe was just a bit better.

Brady has better winning % in both the regular season and in the playoffs. So you analysis is way off, selective memory perhaps.

 

[lurker1965]

Sorry, Test,

Incomparable. Rules changed, or were re-emphasized, too much for an apples to apples comparison.

 

[lurker1965]

The general consensus is that Montana is the GOAT ...

Montana is thought to be the GOAT only by young 'uns who think 1983 was long, long, long ago.

Sammy Baugh changed the QB from another running back to the guy who passes. And he was a HOF safety. And he still holds the record for longest punt.

 

[Deus Irae]

The definitive list: Top 10 NFL quarterbacks | Cold Hard Football Facts

And it's Starr, not Star....

 

[RodThePat]

Montana is thought to be the GOAT only by young 'uns who think 1983 was long, long, long ago.

Sammy Baugh changed the QB from another running back to the guy who passes. And he was a HOF safety. And he still holds the record for longest punt.

We are discussing best QB of all time, not best all around player, so Baugh's prowess as a Safety/Punter don't really come into play. Statistically he is very much comparable to Brady and Montana, if you adjust to the period he played in. He just didn't have as much championship success as those two and, therefore, is, in my opinion, below them in the conversation.

As far as old timers go, I'd put Sid Luckman and Otto Graham ahead of Baugh, based on stats and championship victories (obviously, that's all I have to go on, as I didn't watch any of those guys play).

 

[PatsFanSince74]

The definitive list: Top 10 NFL quarterbacks | Cold Hard Football Facts

And it's Starr, not Star....

I didn't have Sammy Baugh in the mix because I made Championships part of my criteria, but he was a great one. Otherwise, as my earlier posts in this thread would suggest, I can't argue with the top of the list and TB's about where I'd put him...for now. He adds that fourth title and I'd argue to move him up.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I usually go less with stats, and more of what I saw/experienced on my own. Montana was just amazing. I could never see the Colts playoff loss, the Giants SB loss, or the last couple of "one and dones" by Brady and Co. happen with a Joe Montana lead team.

Montana did have those losses. There was about a 4 year stretch where he was bad in the playoffs.

Brady's in the conversation, and he should still have quite a few years left. That's good enough for me.

 

[Joker]

Let's switch this up a bit....what do you think about Pennington versus Sanchez?

 

[Yehoodi]

Brett Favre and John Elway are a tier below Brady in the greatest QBs of all time discussion.

the statement that i was quoting had to do with the "greatest bad weather QB" and not the greatest QB overall (i.e. in all conditions) . . . so I am not sure how relevant your response is . . .

yes overall i do think TB is ahead of Favre and Elway . . . but as for playing in bad conditions I am not ready to crown TB that just yet . . .

 

[VJCPatriot]

So fellow patriot fans, while we wait for the cowboys/pats game this weekend, i thought i would start a thread comparing these two greats.

In your guys opinions, what separates a brady from a montana or vice versa? Which categories is brady "better" in? Is it arm strength? Pocket awareness? intelligence? Are both "pure" pocket passers? Who is the most capable in the pocket? Out of the pocket?

The battlefield is yours

Too early for this conversation. Besides Brady needs to win at least 1 more Superbowl to be in the discussion for real. If he wins 2 more, then well, Brady sets himself up as the GOAT.

Montana is thought to be the GOAT only by young 'uns who think 1983 was long, long, long ago.

Sammy Baugh changed the QB from another running back to the guy who passes. And he was a HOF safety. And he still holds the record for longest punt.

Let's not bring punting and safety play into a QB conversation. It's great that he was a two way player and I respect that. But we're only talking about QB abilities in this thread.

A lot of great QBs to choose from but right now the iconic champion is still Joe Montana. Brady's career is still not done though, so he is continuing to rewrite the record books as we speak. I believe Brady has the ability to become the greatest QB that we have seen yet.

 

[RodThePat]

Let's switch this up a bit....what do you think about Pennington versus Sanchez?

Pennington and it's not even close. We were very lucky Pennington had lot of injuries that sapped all of his arm strength. If it weren't for those he could have very well developed into a taller Drew Brees.

 

[Yehoodi]

Too early for this conversation. Besides Brady needs to win at least 1 more Superbowl to be in the discussion for real. If he wins 2 more, then well, Brady sets himself up as the GOAT.



Let's not bring punting and safety play into a QB conversation. It's great that he was a two way player and I respect that. But we're only talking about QB abilities in this thread.

A lot of great QBs to choose from but right now the iconic champion is still Joe Montana. Brady's career is still not done though, so he is continuing to rewrite the record books as we speak. I believe Brady has the ability to become the greatest QB that we have seen yet.

you know its funny you are the second or third posters that has picked up on the Sammy Baugh reference . . .and the original poster was just responding to a poster that was describing Montana and Brady as the GOAT, and the poster merely said that Baugh was the GOAT . . . i.e the Greatest of All Time, NOT the greatest QB . . .

so you guys got to pick your posion, if you are talking the GOAT then talk about that, if you are talking about the greatest QB of all time at the QB positions then talk about that . . . but PLEASE do not bring into the thread the GOAT word and then complain about posters talking about the GOAT . . .

newsflash to all poster GOAT does not necessarily equal the greatest QB of all time . . . and when talking about the GOAT, I would tend to lean towards a person who had Phillips Rivers QB skills, whilst playing on defense with Ed Reed level play and returning punts like Wes Welker as opposed to a guy with TB skills who just plays QB . . .my two cents . . .

for me in the GOAT discussion I would put in sammy Baugh ahead of TB/Montana

in the greatest QB not so much . . .

 

[Deus Irae]

you know its funny you are the second or third posters that has picked up on the Sammy Baugh reference . . .and the original poster was just responding to a poster that was describing Montana and Brady as the GOAT, and the poster merely said that Baugh was the GOAT . . . i.e the Greatest of All Time, NOT the greatest QB . . .

so you guys got to pick your posion, if you are talking the GOAT then talk about that, if you are talking about the greatest QB of all time at the QB positions then talk about that . . . but PLEASE do not bring into the thread the GOAT word and then complain about posters talking about the GOAT . . .

newsflash to all poster GOAT does not necessarily equal the greatest QB of all time . . . and when talking about the GOAT, I would tend to lean towards a person who had Phillips Rivers QB skills, whilst playing on defense with Ed Reed level play and returning punts like Wes Welker as opposed to a guy with TB skills who just plays QB . . .my two cents . . .

for me in the GOAT discussion I would put in sammy Baugh ahead of TB/Montana

in the greatest QB not so much . . .

GOAT can be for any set or subset. It need not be about the Greatest NFL player of all time. If it was, Baugh wouldn't be the choice, anyway.

Rice is considered the GOAT at WR, for example.

 

[tests]

I usually go less with stats, and more of what I saw/experienced on my own. Montana was just amazing. I could never see the Colts playoff loss, the Giants SB loss, or the last couple of "one and dones" by Brady and Co. happen with a Joe Montana lead team.

That guy just had "it", and was definitely Joe Cool out there.

And if you think about it, many previously held the position that Manning was the best playing at that time, and now many say Rodgers is the best QB right now, so even while he's playing, there's been the argument that Brady was not the best.

When Montana played, he was the best, period.

This is coming from the biggest Patriots fan on the planet, but Joe Montana was the best ever.

hold your horses there buddy. Montanas had his fair share of one and dones too!

 

[tests]

Greg Cook and Bert Jones might have been among the best ever, but because of injuries we'll never know.

Before Montana, Walsh coached Cook in Cincinnati under Paul Brown. Walsh said that Cook might have been the best ever if he had not injured his shoulder....for which Walsh took great responsability since he was the one calling the play that lead the Cook's injury.

i saw some highlights of greg cook...and man he sure knew how to throw a football

 

[tests]

To be quite honest, does brady really need to win another ring or two to be considered a "better" quarterback than joe montana? Sure brady would be "greater" than montana if he wins 2 more because of his resume (thus becoming most likely number 1 in the greatest of all time debate)... but i believe greatest of all time is not equal to best of all time.

For example, tons of delusional laker fans were claiming if kobe bryant wins 7-8 rings (Which could have been a possibility had they won it last year), he would be > than Michael Jordan because he has more rings.

Let me ask you this, if you watched michael jordan and kobe bryant... watched there playoff performances and more importantly FINALS performances... would you honestly considered kobe bryant as a BETTER player than Michael Jordan? of course not.

Lets apply the same thing to brady/montana. Minus the extra ring that montana has, who is the "better" player? I know rule changes make it difficult to asses this though..

 

[Deus Irae]

To be quite honest, does brady really need to win another ring or two to be considered a "better" quarterback than joe montana? Sure brady would be "greater" than montana if he wins 2 more because of his resume (thus becoming most likely number 1 in the greatest of all time debate)... but i believe greatest of all time is not equal to best of all time.

For example, tons of delusional laker fans were claiming if kobe bryant wins 7-8 rings (Which could have been a possibility had they won it last year), he would be > than Michael Jordan because he has more rings.

Let me ask you this, if you watched michael jordan and kobe bryant... watched there playoff performances and more importantly FINALS performances... would you honestly considered kobe bryant as a BETTER player than Michael Jordan? of course not.

Lets apply the same thing to brady/montana. Minus the extra ring that montana has, who is the "better" player? I know rule changes make it difficult to asses this though..

There's still a fair amount of people who'd put Manning over Brady, so I'd say that the answer to your question is a resounding yes. Remember, MPAI.

 

[patsfan13]

Minus the rings Brady his regular season record is far better than Montana's.


I would also add that Brady's has compiled his record playing in the era pf the salary cap whereas the 49'ers of Montana time had no cap and had a roster with far more all pros on it. This can't be ignored.