mankins with tampa

[condon84]

How about this....you answer my questions and I'll answer your question.

You actually don't need to answer my question because this comment of yours answers it.

If Mankins had stayed here this offensive line wouldn't be better

So in your assessment, Devey is better or equal to Mankins.

That assessment is about as silly as it gets.

 

[makoute]

You actually don't need to answer my question because this comment of yours answers it.



So in your assessment, Devey is better or equal to Mankins.

That assessment is about as silly as it gets.

How well is Mankins playing in TB?

 

[condon84]

How well is Mankins playing in TB?

Better than Devey. Even on one leg.

 

[shmessy]

So let me make sure I understand your position, you think Devey is a better option than Mankins?

Devey, + Tim Wright + Probably the 1st Pick of Draft day 3 + Millions more $$$ to sign McCourty and/or Revis???

Yes.

 

[Kontradiction]

Mankins not being here has nothing to do with Solder's poor play. I don't know who you think Mankins is covering for because he didn't "cover" for himself last year. He was especially bad at the end of the year.
Also, Mankins is not playing well with Tampa. How did Tampa's offensive line look on Thursday night....was he covering for them too? If Mankins had stayed here this offensive line wouldn't be better and he certainly isn't worth an early 4th rounder, Wright, and almost $6 million in cap space.

So you think the O-Line looks better than it did last year? Of course you don't. Mankins was covering for the play of both Solder and Wendell last year (Wendell moreso). Again, if you have knowledge on how the OL works as a cohesive unit, you can understand that guards and tackles assist one another all the time with their assignments. If there is a weak link, he gets the most help. If you don't believe this to be the case, then why do YOU believe that Solder's play has dipped so badly this season compared to 2012 and 2013?

Mankins has been fine in Tampa Bay. Their games are on up here almost every weekend. He even hyperextended his knee in Week 1 and still looks like he could walk in here and be the best OL on the team. And I really don't care that much about the cap space saved this year. Unless something drastic happened with our cap that I'm not aware of, the team could have kept Mankins so that Brady wasn't peeling himself off the turf after almost every drop back while shaking his head at this seive of an OL.

In the end, the underlined is a ridiculous statement, as I'm sure you're well aware. The bolded is the gist of why you're disagreeing, I take it. It's sometimes hard to admit that your favorite team screwed up.

I have a weird position on this..I agree that center stayed the same and we downgraded at both guard positions. But, I still think trading Mankins for Wright and a 4th was the right move. He was a guard who clearly wasn't worth his contract and his own play was declining.

His play wasn't declining at all. If you watched this OL since the beginning of 2012, you'd realize how much he'd been helping out Solder and Wendell. If you don't believe that, then I pose the same question to you as I did to the guy I quoted above: why do YOU believe that Solder's play has dipped so badly this season compared to 2012 and 2013?

Would Mankins make a marketable difference? If Mankins were here would Solder be playing better? I lean towards no on both of these. We would improve a little, but not enough to justify that contract.

Given that you just admitted that we've downgraded at both guard positions and stayed the same at C so far, this statement doesn't make any sense. How would either of these not be the case with a stark improvement at LG? And who cares about the contract? Again, unless something happened with our cap room that I haven't been made aware of, the team could have easily afforded Mankins for at least one more season until they could put themselves in a better position to actually replace him without the drop off being so awfully extreme.

I still believe we would have struggled mightily... IT'S NOT LIKE MANKINS IS LIGHTING IT UP IN TAMPA!

Given my geographic location, I would wager a guess that I've probably watched more Bucs games than either of you have (unfortunately). I feel comfortable in saying two things...

1. Nobody is "lighting it up in Tampa".

2. Mankins, hyperextended knee and all, could still walk in here and be both the best LG and the best LT (based on what we saw in Miami last year) on the squad.

It seems Mankins is either injured/not playing up to expectations. Secondly, Mankins wasn't exactly great LG last year either. He blew 2-3 critical blocks in the AFCCG. Do you remember that 3rd and 3 where Knighton literally brushed him aside to sack Brady and stall the drive when we had a little momentum going.?

Every player has a bad play from time to time. Mankins is no exception. Brady had a bad play or two during the AFCCG. Should the Pats ship him out too?

Mankins is gone and we made the right move IMO. Question is where do we go from here?

That's something that's going to need to be figured out quickly or Brady is going to be on IR before the season is over.

 

[shmessy]

Better than Devey. Even on one leg.

You're probably right. How has that helped Tampa Bay NOT be the worst team in the NFL?

I think alot of people are beginning to realize exactly HOW important it is to have the highest paid LG.

 

[shmessy]

So you think the O-Line looks better than it did last year?

.

No. But it STUNK last year also. What saved it was that we had Lagarette Blount along with Ridley/Vereen/Bolden/Develin.

The OL is slightly weaker right now. The problem isn't the absence of the fading, overpaid veteran OG. The problem is the absence of Scarnnecchia.

But our TE situation is VASTLY better with a real move TE.

53 man squad. They are the New England Patriots, not the New England Left Guards.

Patriots are ahead on this trade big time. Plus they will have more cap space to sign players and get the (probably) 1st player of ther 3rd day of the Draft.

 

[Kontradiction]

Devey, + Tim Wright + Probably the 1st Pick of Draft day 3 + Millions more $$$ to sign McCourty and/or Revis???

Yes.

The team could have parted with Mankins this offseason, when they were more prepared to replace him (or draft a replacement), while still using the savings to sign McCourty and/or Revis longterm.

 

[Kontradiction]

No. But it STUNK last year also. What saved it was that we had Lagarette Blount along with Ridley/Vereen/Bolden/Develin.

The OL is slightly weaker right now. The problem isn't the absence of the fading, overpaid veteran OG. The problem is the absence of Scarnnecchia.

But our TE situation is VASTLY better with a real move TE.

53 man squad. They are the New England Patriots, not the New England Left Guards.

Patriots are ahead on this trade big time. Plus they will have more cap space to sign players and get the (probably) 1st player of ther 3rd day of the Draft.

1. Even Scar can't turn dog **** into gold.

2. The New England Patriots depend on Tom Brady, a 37 year old immobile pocket passer, to guide the offense. Tom Brady depends on a clean pocket to step up into, which has been in short supply in 2014.

Again, you're more than welcome to refresh me on the last time the Pats, in the BB era, have had to hold back their passing attack to nothing but short, quick dump offs to assist the putrid OL. You're also welcome to refresh me on the last time Brady showed an OBVIOUS level of disgust with the unit on the field.

 

[condon84]

Devey, + Tim Wright + Probably the 1st Pick of Draft day 3 + Millions more $$$ to sign McCourty and/or Revis???

Yes.

Sure. I thought the trade was great long term.

But not for this year given that Devey was the option when Mankins left.

 

[condon84]

You're probably right. How has that helped Tampa Bay NOT be the worst team in the NFL?

I think alot of people are beginning to realize exactly HOW important it is to have the highest paid LG.

So Tampa being the worst team in the NFL means that Devey is a better option than Mankins for this year's team?

 

[Kontradiction]

So Tampa being the worst team in the NFL means that Devey is a better option than Mankins for this year's team?

Of course not. He's stretching because it's very difficult to defend this trade when the Raiders, of all teams, hit your 37 year old QB six times and sack him another two. Thus far, the Pats OL ranks among the worst in the NFL. Of course Mankins could have helped. We now have to hope the fix to the issue is already on the team and that Wright ends up able to contribute in some way, shape, or form.

 

[SeanBruschi54]

So Tampa being the worst team in the NFL means that Devey is a better option than Mankins for this year's team?

Im sorry I agree with your basis about being mad Mankins is gone but man did Mankins get mandhandled by the Falcons on Thursday. Maybe its because he's not 100 percent this season already but you have to wonder if they sold at the right time this year too.

 

[condon84]

Im sorry I agree with your basis about being mad Mankins is gone but man did Mankins get mandhandled by the Falcons on Thursday. Maybe its because he's not 100 percent this season already but you have to wonder if they sold at the right time this year too.

I don't disagree with the Pats trading him if there was someone more competent than Devey. Even Mankins at 80% is better than Devey at 100%.

 

[Kontradiction]

I don't disagree with the Pats trading him if there was someone more competent than Devey. Even Mankins at 80% is better than Devey at 100%.

I've never had a problem with the team cutting or trading a veteran. The issue that I've always had is them doing it without a competent replacement already in place. See Seymour, Richard; Meriweather, Brandon; and Sanders, James.

 

[chasa]

mankins love fest

That's all well in good, but a team can't continue to be elite if you are too afraid to get younger.

That's what makes the patriots different from teams like the and bucs.

The patriots understand that in order to get better sometimes you need to start over by cutting a long tenured player.

Mankins would NOT be a cureall for the offensive line, and in fact would probably end up hurting it LONG term.

The money saved can be put to better use making the TEAM better. we also get to put some young guys on the Oline as see if they have anything to offer, and if not we can go out and get new guys instead of staying the course.

 

[patsderoer]

That's all well in good, but a team can't continue to be elite if you are too afraid to get younger.

That's what makes the patriots different from teams like the and bucs.

The patriots understand that in order to get better sometimes you need to start over by cutting a long tenured player.

They did not get better, they got worse. Or should I say much worse

 

[Kontradiction]

That's all well in good, but a team can't continue to be elite if you are too afraid to get younger.

That's what makes the patriots different from teams like the and bucs.

The patriots understand that in order to get better sometimes you need to start over by cutting a long tenured player.

Mankins would NOT be a cureall for the offensive line, and in fact would probably end up hurting it LONG term.

The money saved can be put to better use making the TEAM better. we also get to put some young guys on the Oline as see if they have anything to offer, and if not we can go out and get new guys instead of staying the course.

So you've literally not read a single one of my posts then? Because this straw man that you're attempting to set up here is nothing like what I've been saying, and is certainly not the crux of the issue with the team.

 

[chasa]

They did not get better, they got worse. Or should I say much worse

So you've literally not read a single one of my posts then? Because this straw man that you're attempting to set up here is nothing like what I've been saying, and is certainly not the crux of the issue with the team.

this might come as a surprise, but I actively try and avoid reading some of the novels you and some of the others here post. It's a waste of time to be frank as there are some here who regardless of fact's will always have the stance of "I'm right, you're wrong, I'm smart, you're dumb, My arguement is flawless, you're arguement is a strawman arguement"


Mankins is too old and frankly not skilled enough anymore to be getting the kind of money he is getting. no desire to take a paycut means hes not going to be a patriot for long, BB got some value out of him.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I wonder if the Bucs would take their 4th back for Mankins. We keep Wright, and they get a pick back since they won't come within 4 games of making the playoffs anyway.