Mankins could hold up NFL settlement

[Joker]

Apparently, I CAN...

My take on Mankins being better is really more about the fact that many players from that era simply could not play in todays NFL, and it is hard to imagine Hannah playing guard in todays NFL at 260 lbs let alone dominate the way Mankins does,

goes exactly to my point....YOU would have us believe Adrian Petersen can play in today's NFL but not Walter Payton...Muhammed Ali could never hope to match up against a Klitschko, reason being training and all that. It's an idiot argument put forth by somebody who cannot admit he made a totally ignorant post...when you say "while I admit" and then follow it up with the equivalent of you don't admit a damn thing it makes me wonder just what kind of mental illness you suffer from.

"well, I admit my wife fell to her death but just because I pushed her on the icy walk above the Falls doesn't mean I killed her...she should have worked out more and been stronger and more resistant so it's really her fault..."

The Townes Paradox

 

[IllegalContact]

I haven't had a single emotion invested in this debate. And your logic has not been fine.

Not seeing that Mankins beef (if there was one) should be with the NFLPA and not the owners is the first error in your logic. The second was stating that he should have held out like John Hannah did, you can't compare a hold out prior to 93' to anything that happens in today's NFL. Its apples and oranges.

No emotion - just logic supported by facts.

the fact that you have an opinion on who mankins should have a beef with means that you are emotionally invested......

I never said he should have held out like hannah.....I said he should have held out like deion branch......wake the f*** up and learn how to read

to me, he's a damned good OG who should has the right to make the decisions he has been making......its his life and his money he is standing to gain or lose.

 

[townes]

Joker, you deliberately cropped out the end where I clearly said that it made more sense to look at their careers in context and not project eras. You did so because you are more interested in being an a-hole than actually comprehendingvwhat I said, which was that I was applying the wrong logic to it. Feel free to continue being a jerk, I really don't care.

 

[Joker]

The only thing I will continue doing is recognizing a truly great NFL iconic performer , John Hannah.

I know this really irks you. I can't wait for Mankins to leave for greener pastures...and YOU with him. Obviously, you have a dog in this hunt and it's not wearing red,white and blue.

 

[mgcolby]

the fact that you have an opinion on who mankins should have a beef with means that you are emotionally invested......

If that makes you feel better. Follow the 2006 CBA sequence of events from the negotiations to the opt out and that is the only logical conclusion you can come to. Again no emotion.

I never said he should have held out like hannah.....I said he should have held out like deion branch......wake the f*** up and learn how to read

You're right, you didn't say he should hold out like Hannah, my mistake. I guess I merged your several references to Hannah and your 'hold out with a year left on his contract' statement.

to me, he's a damned good OG who should has the right to make the decisions he has been making......its his life and his money he is standing to gain or lose.

I don't disagree that it is within his rights to sit out and not sign a tender or a franchise tag if he so chooses. However, it doesn't mean that as a fan, I have to support that stance, especially when it hurts the team on the field. In addition, it makes it doubly tough to swallow, when he is "insulted" by a contract offer that would pay him like a damned good OG, top 3 for that matter.

 

[Ring 6]

No you didn't, you never said whether or not you saw the mankins piece and you never said why communities shouldn't be allowed to buy shares in their teams. Feel free to quote your responses to those questions to save you time, but from everything i have read they don't exist.

As for Mankins being better than Hannah the easiest way to answer is to admit i'm wrong. Hannah had a better career than Mankins has had but Mankins imo is going to be a HOF player. My take on Mankins being better is really more about the fact that many players from that era simply could not play in todays NFL, and it is hard to imagine Hannah playing guard in todays NFL at 260 lbs let alone dominate the way Mankins does, however that's a slippery slope to go down and it probably makes more sense to simply go by their careers in the context they played in than to put them in uniform today.


Once again I have answered your question and what remains is for you to answer mine.

a) yes
b) because it is a stupid idea as I explained in the thread, just go back and read it. I'm not going to repeat it all again so you can misunderstand it again.
c) So your idea of admitting you are wrong, about something so egregiously wrong, is to then justify why you think you are right?

 

[Ring 6]

It's all opinion but mine is that Mankins is the clear cut best guard in football and he will go down as the best of this era when his career is over, at that point people can debate whether or not he was better than Hannah but to proclaim him as such now is a mistake on my part. Mankins played a shortened season by his own choice but still was named all pro, and that's pretty much unheard of at any position, and i think it reflects a consensus that he is the best in the league.

A CONSENSUS that he is the best in the league?
Out of 50 voters he received 15 votes. Evans received 24. That is 100 possbile votes (everyone gets 2) and only 15 named him. 70% left him off the ballot. Chris Snee received 14, so one vote leaves your consensus opionion of the best in the league off the allpro team again.
Now I'm sure your response will be that he didnt play the whole season, even though not playing the whole season was a key point in your argument, so lets look at other seasons.
2009. Names on 12 ballots, well behind Hutchinson 31 and Evans 28.
2008 Just 4 votes, the 5th most, well behind Hutchinson 40, and Snee 32
2007 18 votes, good for 3rd behind Hutchinson 36 and Faneca 21. Since he received more votes in 2007 than 2010 would you also consider his not making the allpro team a reflection that the consensus thinks he is the best?

I think you need to come up with more reasons, because this one failed.

 

[Joker]

I rate Mankins as one of the top five left guards in the league...in the top five is what I mean...the best LG?...not quite

I have a sour taste left over from the Giant win in the Bowl..a taste born of repeated maulings and complete domination by Justin Tuck over Logan Mankins the entire game.THAT was NOT the performance of an elite,HOF guard...not even close.

I believe in Robert Kraft. In fact, I revere him to some degree. Mankins statements and accusations vis a vis Mr. Kraft left a sour taste in my mouth, also.

I've read Mankins' agent's statements to the press the last two years. If I didn't know better I'd suspect he is a space alien.

The Patriots DID record a 14-2 season last year. 10 million dollars is a heckuva chunk of change...for a top LT or All Pro center. A guard???? Especially a guard with a very sour attitude who doesn't care that anyone knows it and makes no secret he'd rather be elsewhere... a guard who mocks the integrity of Robert Kraft...has contempt for the loyal fans who root for his success...who lets a Hopalong Cassidy -Ding Dong Daddy agent run amok in the press, wildly accusing Robert Kraft, the Patriots organization, and ,by association, the great fans of N.E. of robbing his client of his livelihood?

Uh...sorry...we have a pretty good, YOUNG team here, with some very good veteran leadership, coming off a pretty good season. The last thing the Patriots need is Adalius Mankins festering all season because he's insulted by 10 million dollars.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I rate Mankins as one of the top five left guards in the league...in the top five is what I mean...the best LG?...not quite

I have a sour taste left over from the Giant win in the Bowl..a taste born of repeated maulings and complete domination by Justin Tuck over Logan Mankins the entire game.THAT was NOT the performance of an elite,HOF guard...not even close.

I believe in Robert Kraft. In fact, I revere him to some degree. Mankins statements and accusations vis a vis Mr. Kraft left a sour taste in my mouth, also.

I've read Mankins' agent's statements to the press the last two years. If I didn't know better I'd suspect he is a space alien.

The Patriots DID record a 14-2 season last year. 10 million dollars is a heckuva chunk of change...for a top LT or All Pro center. A guard???? Especially a guard with a very sour attitude who doesn't care that anyone knows it and makes no secret he'd rather be elsewhere... a guard who mocks the integrity of Robert Kraft...has contempt for the loyal fans who root for his success...who lets a Hopalong Cassidy -Ding Dong Daddy agent run amok in the press, wildly accusing Robert Kraft, the Patriots organization, and ,by association, the great fans of N.E. of robbing his client of his livelihood?

Uh...sorry...we have a pretty good, YOUNG team here, with some very good veteran leadership, coming off a pretty good season. The last thing the Patriots need is Adalius Mankins festering all season because he's insulted by 10 million dollars.

Do we know if breaking OL franchise tags down into T, C, and G is part of this CBA? If so, not signing his franchise tag before the lockout could cost Mankins a lot of money.

 

[Joker]

Do we know if breaking OL franchise tags down into T, C, and G is part of this CBA? If so, not signing his franchise tag before the lockout could cost Mankins a lot of money.

to be honest, there's probably twenty or more members here that would know 100% more than I do...right now,I'm assuming he has a choice to sign the tag for 10.3 million or so, hold out and sign it like he did last year, or else agree to a trade.I'm not an expert on any of these contractual machinations...what I do know is I'm getting sick and tired of the constant Logan Mankins soap opera. I really don't give a sh!t WHAT he wants at this point. Either STFU and play ball or move on. I want to see 55 players working in unison toward a common goal. The last thing I want to wake up to in the middle of October is some Cowboy Bob from Skunk Ridge ,Sacramento bleating like a corpulent sheep in the press about "that thar double dealin' varmint, Kraft and them eastern fellers what ain't got no durn respect for Sheriff Mankins..".

 

[IllegalContact]

If that makes you feel better. Follow the 2006 CBA sequence of events from the negotiations to the opt out and that is the only logical conclusion you can come to. Again no emotion.



You're right, you didn't say he should hold out like Hannah, my mistake. I guess I merged your several references to Hannah and your 'hold out with a year left on his contract' statement.



I don't disagree that it is within his rights to sit out and not sign a tender or a franchise tag if he so chooses. However, it doesn't mean that as a fan, I have to support that stance, especially when it hurts the team on the field. In addition, it makes it doubly tough to swallow, when he is "insulted" by a contract offer that would pay him like a damned good OG, top 3 for that matter.

On one hand, you're not emotional.......but then it's hard to swallow.....as for the supposed offer that would pay him top 3, that's hearsay.

 

[townes]

So Andy, you saw Belichik present Mankins, what was his opinion of him?


Your refusal to so much as quote your supposed answer as to why communities shouldn't be allowed to buy shares of their team shows you refused to answer, and simply calling it "stupid" is what is actually stupid as the current World Champs clearly demonstrates.

As for Mankins not only have I acknowledged that I was wrong but why I was wrong. I realize that won't satisfy those who are incapable of admitting it when they are wrong but don't really care because their insecurities are their business.

 

[Ring 6]

So Andy, you saw Belichik present Mankins, what was his opinion of him?

What he said wasnt important to that discussion, the fact that you used what you couldnt hear him say as part of your argument because it must have been good was the point, which you still cant seem to get. He could have said he was more important than Brady, and it wouldnt matter because you were using a conversation you didn't have any knowledge of as proof of an argument.

Your refusal to so much as quote your supposed answer as to why communities shouldn't be allowed to buy shares of their team shows you refused to answer, and simply calling it "stupid" is what is actually stupid as the current World Champs clearly demonstrates.

OK, I quote the whole thread, go read it.

As for Mankins not only have I acknowledged that I was wrong but why I was wrong. I realize that won't satisfy those who are incapable of admitting it when they are wrong but don't really care because their insecurities are their business.

Your 'admitting you were wrong' was followed by a description of why you actually think you were right, but you will accept that you are wrong based on different parameters. That is the height of insecurity.

 

[townes]

The fact is that you knew I was right that Belichik was lauding Mankins but just wanted to be as much of a **** as possible.

As for Mankins not only did I admit I was wrong but added why, which was that the logic I used was flawed. Since you are incapable of admitting you are wrong you can't comprehend that, which is why you run away when your argument falls flat on it's face, as you did when confronted with your idiotic claim that its stupid for communities to own teams.

You aren't interested in discussing anything Andy, only trying to prosecute those you disagree with. Good luck with that, I won't be responding to it.


Adios Mr. McCoy

 

[mgcolby]

On one hand, you're not emotional.......but then it's hard to swallow.....as for the supposed offer that would pay him top 3, that's hearsay.

I was talking about two completely different events.

The first part was talking about his alleged 10 mil ransom request before settling the lawsuit. That beef should be with the NFLPA.

The last part about holding out, was clearly referring to last year's situation. As far as I can tell, he hasn't held out of this year's camp yet.

Hearsay, well every contract offer/negotiations is hearsay until it is finalized and released by the NFLPA. Do you have any info that says it wasn't top 3 money? Any claims by Mankins agent that the numbers bantied around in the media were not accurate? If so I would like to read it, because I clearly missed it. The only thing I remember reading coming out of the Mankins camp was that they were unhappy about the number of years on the contract and that the contract was 20 percent lower than Evans and left it at that. Not exactly a forceful rebuttal of the "hearsay" that was reported in the media. And he didn't break down what that 20% was, did it include the two extra years of money that Evans got, was it bonus money etc..? So again, if you have something that is more specific I am all ears.

 

[IllegalContact]

I was talking about two completely different events.

The first part was talking about his alleged 10 mil ransom request before settling the lawsuit. That beef should be with the NFLPA.

The last part about holding out, was clearly referring to last year's situation. As far as I can tell, he hasn't held out of this year's camp yet.

Hearsay, well every contract offer/negotiations is hearsay until it is finalized and released by the NFLPA. Do you have any info that says it wasn't top 3 money? Any claims by Mankins agent that the numbers bantied around in the media were not accurate? If so I would like to read it, because I clearly missed it. The only thing I remember reading coming out of the Mankins camp was that they were unhappy about the number of years on the contract and that the contract was 20 percent lower than Evans and left it at that. Not exactly a forceful rebuttal of the "hearsay" that was reported in the media. And he didn't break down what that 20% was, did it include the two extra years of money that Evans got, was it bonus money etc..? So again, if you have something that is more specific I am all ears.

I have the same info that you have......one saying it was a 5 year 35M another saying it was a 7 year 35M.....if it was indeed the former, I don't see him not signing it.......he already lost the difference between that and top OG money last year. he may have 'principle', but he's not about to leave a ton of money on the table for it.......

I just think the a contract will get done and all will be forgotten.....in the meantime, he's on the books for 10M, and it is likely that he is going to have to be extended if the pats plan any FA moves