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Mangini Bus Trip: Media Haters or 'Sophisticated Hazing'?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by jmt57, May 30, 2009.

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  1. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Browns rookies and agents upset about 10-hour bus trip to work at Mangini camp - Cleveland Plain Dealer by Mary Kay Cabot

    Mangini not making friends in Cleveland - Pro Football Talk by Mike Florio


    So apparently Mangini takes the rookies out to a football camp for charity and the Browns rookies don't like it. No surprise, Mike Florio is right there to report the facts, err, I mean rumors.

    Obviously there are no Mangini supporters here on this site, but I'm starting to wonder if Mangini is getting even less objectivity from the media than Bill Belichick gets. It's not that I have much sympathy, but it's as if 'well if we can't bash Belichick, let's bash some of his protégés.'

    Compare how much positive press there is about Dimitroff to how many in the press question what Mangini, McDaniels and Pioli are doing. Or look at it this way: is Belichick's name mentioned as often in articles about the Falcons as it is about the Browns, Chiefs or Broncos?
    Last edited: May 30, 2009
  2. BradyBranch39

    BradyBranch39 Rookie

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    Re: Mangini Bus Trip: Media Haters or 'Sophisticateds Hazing'?

    better even: it might be against the rules! Imagine that... Mangini breaking a rule.

    —pft
  3. RayClay

    RayClay On the Roster

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    It's hazing, but big deal. It's a bus trip. The media was all over Coughlin for being so mean before they won the SB too.

    The media always stands up for the rules and players, but sometimes the mean ass coaches get results, especially with a new team. Of course, it could backfire too and I'm sure hoping it does.

    I know Romeo got stuck with some Primadonnas by Savage and was still trying to reign in commando Winslow a couple years along.
  4. BradyFixesEverything

    BradyFixesEverything Rookie

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    I don't like Mangini, but I like this trip.
  5. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Always viewed an act of charity is something that you do on your own, and not forced by someone else.. if that is the sitz it is no longer charity.
  6. livinginthe past

    livinginthe past Rookie

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    Shock horror!

    Over-paid young men forced to do work for the 'greater good'.

    I think Mangini is a class A turd - but people need to start looking beyond the conclusions the media force feed us and start using our brains a little.

    God knows we hate it when fans of other teams follw an inane party line.
    Last edited: May 30, 2009
  7. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Mangini's own overblown ego will clash with his players equally overblown or delicate egos until/unless he develops the kind of basis for credibility and the subtlety his mentor had.
    Eric needed to be forced to confront his own shortcomings before he again tried to force some team to. Lerner screwed up royally by being too impatient for change to allow for that to happen.

    You have to build a base in the locker room before you start running roughshod over a team. Eric became determined to run before he learned how to walk.

    Tom Coughlin lucked out in NY because most of that team had tuned him out. It was really Strahan who turned that around when he got behind Eli for better or worse and Coughlin out of necessity after the London game. And Shockey breaking his leg didn't hurt, either... Otherwise Coughlin, who projected publicly as well as privately as an an unsuccessful as well as unrelenting and unreasonable hardass would have been back in college again or playing media analyst in 2008.

    Also seems someone talked poor Eric into doing this against his own better judgement... just like in NY I guess... blaming others is not something he learned from his much maligned mentor in NE.
  8. NE39

    NE39 Rookie

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    It's 20-hours round trip on a bus. It is over the weekend, and they are expected to attend OTA's on Monday after taking part in OTA's all week.

    How would you feel if your boss told you that, after work on Friday, he was going to bus you 10 hours away to take part in an event he is sponsoring, then bus you 10 hours back. Then you were expected to show up for work again Monday morning.

    I don't know if it violates any rules, but I can understand why there might be griping. If he were busing them from Cleveland to Akron I'd have no sympathy for them, but a 20-hour bus trip over the weekend when you are working during the week kind of sucks, charity or no charity.
  9. PatsChamp88

    PatsChamp88 Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    -Florio :)
  10. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

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    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]From the CBA (Article XXXV and Appendix L) with relevant info in red and my take at the end.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    [/FONT]

    ARTICLE XXXV
    Section 2. Time Periods:
    (a) Subject to the limitations in Subsection (b) below, from the end of the previous NFL season until the
    opening of training camp, Clubs may schedule or conduct off-season workout programs for no more than
    fourteen total weeks, and no more than four workouts per week, for any individual player. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Such workout[/FONT]
    programs shall not be permitted on weekends. During such workout programs, there may be no more than
    fourteen (14) days of organized team practice activity, to be defined by the Player/Club Operations Committee.
    Nothing herein shall prevent a Club from permitting

    Section 8. Enforcement:
    (a) The head coach, who is responsible for any conduct in violation of Sections 5 or 6 of this Article
    (including but not limited to the rules in Appendix L), shall be subject to a fine to be determined by the
    Commissioner, which fine(s) shall not be reimbursable by the Club or any other person.




    APPENDIX L
    OFF-SEASON WORKOUT RULES
    The Collective Bargaining Agreement with the NFLPA provides that, except for certain specified minicamps,
    any off-season workout programs or classroom instruction shall be strictly voluntary. No Club official
    shall indicate to a player that the Club’s off-season workout program or classroom instruction is not voluntary
    (or that a player’s failure to participate in a workout program or classroom instruction will result in the player’s
    failure to make the Club). Off-season programs may take place for fourteen weeks between the end of the
    previous season and ten days prior to the start of veteran training camp. The CBA limits such workouts to four
    days per week; such workout programs are not permitted on weekends. Included in the fourteen weeks may be
    no more than fourteen days of organized team practice activity. This does not preclude any player from
    working out on his own on other days, including weekends. Contact work (e.g., “live” blocking, tackling, pass
    rushing, bump-and-run), is expressly prohibited i n all off-season workouts.
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Voluntary off-season workout programs are intended to provide training, teaching and physical conditioning[/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]for players[/FONT]. The intensity and tempo of drills should be at a level conducive to learning, with player safety as
    the highest priority, and not at a level where one player is in a physical contest with another player.
    Teams are to provide their players and the Management Council the schedule for the program, including
    designation of any days on which organized team practice activity will take place, pursuant to the rules set
    forth in Article XXXV of the CBA, and any changes to the schedule for the program.
    The following rules shall also apply to the fourteen days of organized team practice activity:
    • No pads except protective knee or elbow pads. Helmets are permitted.
    • No live contact; no live contact drills between offensive and defensive linemen.
    • 7-on-7, 9-on-7 and 11-on-11 drills will be permitted, providing no live contact takes place.
    • The NFL will monitor all Clubs during the off-season to ensure player safety and adherence to live contact
    guidelines.
    • Maximum six hours per day, with a maximum two hours on field, for any player
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    [/FONT]



    Possible violations
    1) 1) It’s more than four days per week (OTA started Tue-Sat is five days)Probably into Sunday on return trip.
    2) 2) OTAs are prohibited on weekends
    3) 3) They will be on the field for more than two hours at the football camp in violation
    4) 4) If they inferred that it wasn’t voluntary, it violated the CBA

    5) 5) The OTAs are intended to provided training for players, not use them as paid help at a football camp, especially one where participants pay a fee.
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] IIt could be construed to be a misuse of the OTA for personal benefit (his camp)..and he's not even a politician.Yes it's a charity and I'm glad he's doing it but that doesn't give him free rein to abuse players with 20 hours in a bus....
    [/FONT]










    If you consider the bus trip, part of the OTA it violates the CBA on many levels.
    1) You cant have more than four days in a row of OTAs and since they started on Tues, this is either 5 or six if they return on Sunday
    2) You can't conditio
    Last edited: May 30, 2009
  11. BSR

    BSR Rookie

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    Wow, what a bunch of babies.. I don't like Mangini, but I have to side with him on this one. Big deal, they had to take a bus trip. Heaven forbid.
  12. zoostation

    zoostation Rookie

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    Jets fans equivalent of a genius strikes again!

    They had him in the hall of fame after 11 wins???????
  13. RayClay

    RayClay On the Roster

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    I said it's hazing. He's not supposed to do it. On the other hand, being mean sometimes works , especially with a new team and rookies.

    I'm not advocating it and the best organizations enforce discipline and a pecking order of vets, but the best coaches have also applied ball busting techniques, including Belichick and Parcells.
  14. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    If I didn't actually have the job yet, if I was trying out for the job against fierce competition, and this job was the culmination of my life's dream, something I had been working toward since age 5, I would see it as a chance to further my ambition, and not only take the bus, but offer to help in any way I could.

    These guys trained, ran sprints, and lifted weights daily for the last 15 years to be in this position. They are almost there and a pair of 10 hour bus rides are going to stop them? Are they nuts?
  15. eom

    eom Rookie

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    is it possible he wanted to get those guys in close quarters for a weekend to do a little bonding?
  16. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    But that's exactly the problem. He knew perfectly well that these kids, most of whom are longshots to make the team, have to do absolutely anything he asks. So he takes advantage of his position of power to make them devote their weekend to a long and arduous personal favor: staffing his personal football camp. This is NOT about charity; spending 20 hours on a bus does nothing to help the underprivileged. It's about coercing unpaid labor.

    A friend of mine bought a house back in the '80s and learned that a Pats head coach (not sure if it was Erhardt or Fairbanks) was a previous owner. The neighbors all told her the story of how the back porch was built by Patriots players during off-season training time! I guess Mangini's just a throwback, eh?

    BTW, anybody think Mangini himself took a bus from Cleveland to Hartford?
  17. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    Aren't the "proceeds" from this going to Mangini's personal family charity too?

    I'd like to force all the members of Patsfans to send me $50. The proceeds (anything left over after I cover my "expenses") will go to my personal charity the JSP Foundation.
  18. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    When did this start to fit anyone's definition of hazing?
  19. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It doesn't fit mine, for sure. An employer can't "haze" employees, just abuse them.
  20. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    You're right. It's not hazing.

    But it does give me a great idea.

    I'm interviewing people for a new job. I've narrowed it down to about 20 very highly motivated applicants (who would LOVE to have a good job in this economy).

    I think I'll ask them all to "volunteer" to do some weekend yard work and other odd jobs for me - especially now since MangIdiot has established there's nothing wrong with it!
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