Malcolm Butler, how did he get to this point in his career ?

[scott99]

Ok, let me start by prefacing, this is a positive thread. I just wanted to discuss Butler, and how in the world did he get to this point in his career, where he can easily claim to be one of the top 10 corners in the NFL.

I'm still amazed at how good a player he is. Been a Pat's fan since 1975, and for the life of me, I can't think of an updrafted rookie free agent going to the Pro Bowl in his 2nd year (1st as a starter !), and then be named as a 2nd team All Pro in his 3rd season.

I remember 2014, and hearing about Butler in training camp, hearing about him breaking up passes and making interceptions. He started out wearing #29, and I remember how impressed I was during preseason games. But I didn't think he had a chance. With Revis and Browner signed that offseason, and Arrington and Logan Ryan on the team, I figured maybe he'd be cut and go on the practice squad.

We all know what happened in SB 49 in Feb 2015. But I think it's amazing he even made the team. At his pro day, he ran a pedestrian 4.62, jumped a paltry 33 inch vertical, even his 3 cone wasn't that special, 7.20. Lifted only 13 times.

Yet we've all seen Malcom run, he's obviously faster than 4.62, and we've seen him jump, obviously he's got some hops. I just find his story amazing. The kid just has such heart, determination, the drive to be great. I actually think he's very underrated. IMO, his story is reminiscent of Brady's (though Brady played big time NCAA ball) & Edelman's ,you can't judge a player by his measurables, only by his heart and his drive to become great. Amazing story and an amazing player. I'm still stunned at how good he's become.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Just a quick note about the pro day numbers: Belichick has mentioned that they were taken down in error. Normally the nfldraftscout.com site is pretty reliable (they show the numbers that you mentioned), but Belichick said that when they brought him in for a tryout, they found out that all the numbers were wrong, and that he was athletically right up there with the rest of the secondary (which I believe is evident on the field).

As for the rest of it -- I guess it's a testament to his willingness to learn and be coached and put in the time and effort to do what he's asked. Pretty remarkable.

 

[pdangle]

Just a quick note about the pro day numbers: Belichick has mentioned that they were taken down in error. Normally the nfldraftscout.com site is pretty reliable (they show the numbers that you mentioned), but Belichick said that when they brought him in for a tryout, they found out that all the numbers were wrong, and that he was athletically right up there with the rest of the secondary (which I believe is evident on the field).

As for the rest of it -- I guess it's a testament to his willingness to learn and be coached and put in the time and effort to do what he's asked. Pretty remarkable.

I wonder how many other teams brought him in. Or NE, once they saw the results, signed him right on the spot.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

I wonder how many other teams brought him in. Or NE, once they saw the results, signed him right on the spot.

NE was his only tryout. No one else even contacted him.

 

[LuRkeR1978]

NE was his only tryout. No one else even contacted him.

How do they find these guys!?

 

[supafly]

I'd love to see Butler offered a multi year deal that both sides could agree on. I'd like to see him here for the future, but my concern is that they may be too far apart.

 

[DarrylS]

I agree I would like them to work something out for the future.. any UDFA who gives a huge FU to the draft prognosticators deserves all the praise he can get..

He needs a more NFL savvy agent, before any of this can happen.. the guy he has now is a jackass and was woefully outsmarted..... "Assclown and Assclown, attorneys at law, with dabbling in the NFL on the side".

 

[jimnance]

Butler is basically as fast as gilmore-the Pats timed him in the upper 4.3's in the 40. Peterson is mid4.3's,sherman is much slower than butler. Speedwise,malcolm is right there with the best.As someone else noted,he also has hops,not to mention incredible toughness, great lateral quickness. He's one of the most athletic top cbs in the NFL. The Pats benefited from of course having BB,who leaves no stones unturned,a very sharp scout who works in that area,but also some luck- if he hadn't had some issues in school- he likely goes to a bigger school and is a 1st or 2nd round pick. From TB12 to Gronk to Butler to JE11 it's amazing how many great players the Pats have stolen. But Butler's is a great story.

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

I'm also dumbfounded how everyone missed on him. Even despite the error in recording his measurables, film *had* to have shown *something* of his top notch skills, like:

- His awareness of when to turn his head for the ball, avoiding any PI in the process and giving him a chance to play the ball.

- His timing in his leaps to make a play at the high point of a jump ball.

His ability to get in position to play the ball with these two skills are what really set him apart from most other CBs who have otherwise good coverage skills.

Outstanding find by BB.

Regards,
Chris

 

[borg]

The OP should be on Butler's PR team.....if not already

 

[RayClay]

Only played two years in high school, struggled academically. Got scholarship to community college, then got kicked out. Teams look at thousands of kids. Props to the Patriots for finding him better than his workout and good character.

 

[scott99]

The OP should be on Butler's PR team.....if not already

Nah, he's not even my favorite Patriot. Brady is my #1 (of course), then Gronk and Edelman. Just amazed at how quickly he became elite. I love players like him. That heart and drive to be great. So many players in all sports have amazing talent, but the great ones have that heart and drive.

His story is so interesting. I'm not the only one to think so. I believe they are going to make a movie about his life.

 

[signbabybrady]

 

[aluminum seats]

I'd love to see Butler offered a multi year deal that both sides could agree on. I'd like to see him here for the future, but my concern is that they may be too far apart.

Agreed on both points, just don't see it happening. Can't see them breaking the bank for both corners.

 

[n6249c]

Agreed on both points, just don't see it happening. Can't see them breaking the bank for both corners.

I keep hoping. He certainly seems to exemplify the virtues Belichick extols. I'm hoping his talks with the Saints as an RFA gave him a realistic sense of value and he and the Pats can find a mutually acceptable deal.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I think something like "Moneyball" is at play but instead of sabermetrics (or similar statistical based systems) having the emphasis, it's that, film, blah blah blah (because you don't get a statistically relevant sample in football like you do in baseball for everything...) and then not giving a crap how other teams value the guy.

You have the herd stampeding this way and that way constantly, and NE is always "reaching" for some guy, and that's within the draft itself. Then you have the late rounds and FA which NE owns.

I think some kind of consensus thinking is out there that's thing number 1.

Thing number 2 is, look at Seattle as the anti-NE on the field. "We just do what we do and we dare you to beat us."

Yeah well okay they were so good they almost won it all "just playing their game."

New England sees a guy and says "we could use him for X, Y, and Z but would have to disguise weaknesses A, B, and C," worst-case. Then they scheme to make that happen... so they get serviceable guys and because they also look at whether they're smart/coachable, those diamonds in the rough turn into amazing talents (because while you're disguising a weakness you're also working on limiting or eliminating it).

All that to say: when scheme is as important as raw talent, you can chase the guys with best available raw talent, but not obvious raw talent.

Butler's story: He ran a 4.62 40. Given his build and that slow 40 time, NFL teams said FU. It all comes down to, we're the ones who said wait, what if that ain't right, and gave him another look.

Then there's Bill's quote on him getting to even "decent" level, "is it like crossing a river or crossing an ocean? In his case it was crossing an ocean."

He was playing for a community college and had off-the-field incidents. He ended up at W. Alabama (Div. II).

Inside Malcolm Butler's Journey from 'Reject' Prospect to Revis Replacement

"We talk about that a lot, playing speed versus timed speed," Belichick said. "I would say he played faster than his timed speed on tape from West Alabama. He showed good playing speed. But you have to be careful because it's not like he was playing against SEC receivers."

Fresh off the plane in New England, Butler ran a 4.54.

The next day, he was in one-on-one drills against a receiver who had been in the league for a couple of years. Butler had an interception.

So, Imunno. Everybody gets to fish for new guys through the UDFA pool. Looks like BB and company are a little "maverick" or "pace-setting" in a copycat league.

PS, being the pace-setter in a copycat league has value too. You get all the guys that can play your 3-4 then everybody follows you to 3-4, then you transition to 4-3. You get all the things you want in multiple pro-bowl caliber pass-catching TEs - one of them a Frankenstein's Monster with a juke move. Suddenly everybody wants and needs them (used to be Gonzales, Gates, Witten, dallas clark... and then everybody else. Now it seems like everybody's got to have these guys, it's not optional anymore.)

okay, this is just me drinking Kool-Aid. Maybe it's simple, and they get lucky. All the time.

 

[patsinthesnow]

It sounds cheesy but Butler also has an "it" factor of a football player. He has the quickest pursuit/closing speed I've seen out of a Patriots CB and he's delivered some LB level hits throughout his two years as a starter. He would probably be a heck of a safety.

His combination of elite natural football instincts and competitiveness makes him elite.



You can't really teach that level of toughness/aggression either.

 

[supafly]

I keep hoping. He certainly seems to exemplify the virtues Belichick extols. I'm hoping his talks with the Saints as an RFA gave him a realistic sense of value and he and the Pats can find a mutually acceptable deal.

I hope so, too, but one would have to assume that his value will at least be around the 11-12m dollar a year range. It may not be the 14m a year that they're looking for, but he's got to be somewhere slightly ahead of Logan Ryan's AAV--especially a full year later with the cap increase. I still think it may prove to be too rich to stay here, but I hope that I'm wrong.

 

[oldrover]

How do they find these guys!?

Sounds like the rest of the league talking about the Patriots...

 

[patfanken]

I don't think this notion is limited to the Pats, though they seem to do it better than anyone else, and that is developing players once they get to the league. As we all know all NFL prospects are great athletes to begin with. At that point the Pats seem to do a great job at analysizing what their players bring into the league, THEN create for them a path to get better with every passing year, not just the first few.

EVERY Patriot needs to be better in their role, because they usually only get 1 season's grace when it doesn't happen. From Mitchell to Edelman, I will guarantee you that EVERY receiver went left the Pats facility in February with a detailed list of SPECIFIC things to work on and goals to attain in the off season. The same goes for every player in every position group, including QB.

Now the jump in a player's play becomes less apparant the longer he's in the league, but there are still areas where they can improve. They can add new techniques. They can make fewer mental errors. They can become more versitile. Have fewer penalties, miss fewer tackles, have fewer drops, fumbles, etc. I'm sure Brady has worked on one specific thing this off season to improve his game in his 18th season. I wish I knew what it was.

Now EVERY team has FA success stories (ie Michael Bennett), and every team strives to get their players better and develop them over the yeears. They have a lot of success stories too. It would be really parochial of us to believe we have a monopoly on it. We don't.

But this is agame of "inches". Where the margin of victory is incredibly narrow. So anything that you do that is even SLIGHTLY better than your competition, gets magnified over the course of a game and a season .

Here's the thing that has to be differentiated when evaluating a team. While the Pats look to be a MUCH better overall TEAM than their competiton, they don't necessarily have better players. In fact I would suggest that most of their biggest rivals (Denver Pittsburgh, Oakland) actually have MORE elite players than the Pats do.

As for Butler. He has improved every single year he's been here. And if he's the competitor I hope he is, he will still have a bitter taste in his mouth from his very up and down game against the Falcons, and use it to spark an even better showing this season. And as if he didn't have that to motivate him, no one on the team has more riding on him having a great year than Malcom Butler.