Jon Scott: Patriots Serious About USF DBs

[BradyToMoss]

What's annoying is that you believe DRC to be the absolute best CB in the entire draft class, even though the following points are all valid:

1) You've never watched him play an actual game.

2) He wasn't a dominant CB, even though he played against sub-par comp, and WR's who aren't anything close to special. Cason, Flowers, and other CB's, all put up better performances against top level comp.

3) He didn't come off as intellectually impressive at all during his meeting with the Patriots, and wasn't even intelligent enough to realize that.

Selecting DRC with the 7th overall pick would seem asinine to me.

Are you trying to tell me that you would take Jenkins over DRC if you had your choice between the two of them ?

Is DRC worthy of the 7th pick? Maybe and maybe not. I mean after the top 5, if you think about it, the only 2 guys who "HAVE THE POTENTIAL" to justify that 7th pick are two guys and two guys only (DRC or McFadden). DRC might take a little time to prove the worthiness, but of all the guys who could go in that 7-hole, these 2 guys have the highest projected upside. Now it's all nonsense if the Pats deal down or up, but IF they have to use that pick and the Jets have just taken McFadden it sounds to me like you would be much happier with the "safe" selection of an Alberts or a Keith Rivers and that's fine, but to me, a 7th pick needs to be more than just a "safe" pick, he has to change games and of all the guys who would be available at that 7-spot (again should they choose to stay there), he's the best bet to be that game changer.

 

[bradmahn]

Are you trying to tell me that you would take Jenkins over DRC if you had your choice between the two of them ?

Is DRC worthy of the 7th pick? Maybe and maybe not. I mean after the top 5, if you think about it, the only 2 guys who "HAVE THE POTENTIAL" to justify that 7th pick are two guys and two guys only (DRC or McFadden). DRC might take a little time to prove the worthiness, but of all the guys who could go in that 7-hole, these 2 guys have the highest projected upside. Now it's all nonsense if the Pats deal down or up, but IF they have to use that pick and the Jets have just taken McFadden it sounds to me like you would be much happier with the "safe" selection of an Alberts or a Keith Rivers and that's fine, but to me, a 7th pick needs to be more than just a "safe" pick, he has to change games and of all the guys who would be available at that 7-spot (again should they choose to stay there), he's the best bet to be that game changer.

How can you say that without having seen him play a game?

If you are potentially paying a player nearly $40 million I want the guy who has the least likely potential to be a bust, and, while (according to you, the resident DRC fan boy) DRC may have the highest ceiling, he also has huge question marks that players like Groves or McKelvin or Jenkins or Albert do not, players who have shown that they can match up against top college talent and consistently perform at a pace that warrants a selection in the top half of the first round. Rodgers-Cromartie has a good practice in the Pro Bowl equivalent of college football (more or less) and a good work out and all of a sudden he's Prime Time... sorry, that doesn't float with a lot of people on this board.

 

[PonyExpress]

Are you trying to tell me that you would take Jenkins over DRC if you had your choice between the two of them ?

Is DRC worthy of the 7th pick? Maybe and maybe not. I mean after the top 5, if you think about it, the only 2 guys who "HAVE THE POTENTIAL" to justify that 7th pick are two guys and two guys only (DRC or McFadden). DRC might take a little time to prove the worthiness, but of all the guys who could go in that 7-hole, these 2 guys have the highest projected upside. Now it's all nonsense if the Pats deal down or up, but IF they have to use that pick and the Jets have just taken McFadden it sounds to me like you would be much happier with the "safe" selection of an Alberts or a Keith Rivers and that's fine, but to me, a 7th pick needs to be more than just a "safe" pick, he has to change games and of all the guys who would be available at that 7-spot (again should they choose to stay there), he's the best bet to be that game changer.

DRC is a special athlete. I would say the 3 greatest athletes at cb to come out in the last 5 years have been Deangelo Hall, A. Cromartie, and DRC. Michael Jenkins isn't even in the same league as DRC as an athlete. It's not even worth discussing.

I might consider overlooking DRC's marginal college production and lower level of competition for that reason, and break some of my own rules. Occasionally rules can be cast aside. But I wouldn't overlook those rules to draft him at #7. That pick is so important to the franchise, so valuable, I wouldn't risk it on a player with obvious ???? like those associated with DRC. I could stomach wagering the #20 pick on a gamble of that magnitude, because the payoff could be huge.

As for Jenkins, I really don't think he's a natural cb. He would be an outstanding FS, a much better safety than DRC. DRC is just too much of a pipe cleaner and much too finesse to play safety. Jenkins can easily bulk up to 205 and be at least as good as Tanard Jackson. Actually, better, if he would accept that position switch.

As far as people dumping on any poster for "not having seen a player play"; none of us are professional scouts, as far as I know, with the possible exception of Ochmed Jones. Most of us don't even really know what to look for, what scheme is being played, what responsibility each player has, how good the coaching is, what the talent level around the player is, etc. We are often as likely to be deceived by tape as informed by it. And it doesn't take a genius to see that a player who's 6'2'', runs a 4.28 with a 40" VJ and a 6.60 3-cone is freak of nature. Combine that with his dominant performance at the senior bowl, his family relationship with the best cb in the NFL, and his track prowess, and it's easy to get excited (even against my better judgment).

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

The truth is, I have only seen 3 defensive backs actually play. This years bowl game including Aqib Talib, bowl game including Antoine Cason and all of USC's games including Terrell Thomas. Talib and Cason where both impressive in their bowl games. Although some reports on Thomas say he's inconsistant, I beg the differ. Overall, I like him. He's physical against the run/pass and likes to hit. I think he can be a steal in the second or even third round. Regarding these other DB's, I know nothing about Jenkins and I have never even heard of "DRC" or McKelvin before the combine. However, the consensus is that this years draft class doesn't contain any "franchise" DB's worthy of taking in the top ten. So my point is, don't count on the Pats taking a CB with the 7th pick in the draft or even the first round. I predict the Pats will trade down a few times and take Quentin Groves, who already has experience playing in a 3-4. He's sounds like a player the Pats would like to have on their team. Groves has said to enjoy playing inside/outside LB or put his hand down and rush the passer. How could you not like that?

P.S. I'm not going to read too much into this report that BB "really likes these USF CB's". Does anybody remember when reports where flying around that BB "really liked Sean Taylor and was going to trade both 1st rounders to get him"? I won't believe these stories until it actually happens.

 

[sebman2112]

Are you trying to tell me that you would take Jenkins over DRC if you had your choice between the two of them ?

Is DRC worthy of the 7th pick? Maybe and maybe not. I mean after the top 5, if you think about it, the only 2 guys who "HAVE THE POTENTIAL" to justify that 7th pick are two guys and two guys only (DRC or McFadden). DRC might take a little time to prove the worthiness, but of all the guys who could go in that 7-hole, these 2 guys have the highest projected upside. Now it's all nonsense if the Pats deal down or up, but IF they have to use that pick and the Jets have just taken McFadden it sounds to me like you would be much happier with the "safe" selection of an Alberts or a Keith Rivers and that's fine, but to me, a 7th pick needs to be more than just a "safe" pick, he has to change games and of all the guys who would be available at that 7-spot (again should they choose to stay there), he's the best bet to be that game changer.

I never said Jenkins was the best CB in the draft, and that I would select him at 7th overall. Actually, I don't think ANY CB in the class is worth the 7th overall selection.

The point being made here is that DRC hasn't performed on the dominate level yourself (and others) have claimed, and he's a major boom or bust candidate, with a lot more bust potential, than you seem to think. Giving a substantial contract to someone with that much bust potential isn't very appealing, sorry.

Also, who cares if he's Cromartie's cousin, it's not like they're brothers, and a lot of these guys share some type of relation to current & past NFL players. That relation in no way tells you he'll be successful, and the fact that he would change his name (in order to cash in) is somewhat fishy. As Dryheat pointed out a number of times, if he was still simply Dominique Rodgers would you be so interested?

If you're still wondering, Cason's my favorite CB in the draft for NE, and has been for some time. I wouldn't take him at 7th overall, but I would feel a lot better about taking him with a trade down, and I think he has more potential than some might realize. I don't buy the idiotic arguments suggesting he's "slow". I watched him stay stride for stride with some of the fastest WR's in the NCAA, and score multiple TD's on returns. He didn't lack speed in those situations, and his forty times (4.39-4.45) aren't "slow" either.

 

[BradyToMoss]

DRC is a special athlete. I would say the 3 greatest athletes at cb to come out in the last 5 years have been Deangelo Hall, A. Cromartie, and DRC. Michael Jenkins isn't even in the same league as DRC as an athlete. It's not even worth discussing.

I might consider overlooking DRC's marginal college production and lower level of competition for that reason, and break some of my own rules. Occasionally rules can be cast aside. But I wouldn't overlook those rules to draft him at #7. That pick is so important to the franchise, so valuable, I wouldn't risk it on a player with obvious ???? like those associated with DRC. I could stomach wagering the #20 pick on a gamble of that magnitude, because the payoff could be huge.

As for Jenkins, I really don't think he's a natural cb. He would be an outstanding FS, a much better safety than DRC. DRC is just too much of a pipe cleaner and much too finesse to play safety. Jenkins can easily bulk up to 205 and be at least as good as Tanard Jackson. Actually, better, if he would accept that position switch.

As far as people dumping on any poster for "not having seen a player play"; none of us are professional scouts, as far as I know, with the possible exception of Ochmed Jones. Most of us don't even really know what to look for, what scheme is being played, what responsibility each player has, how good the coaching is, what the talent level around the player is, etc. We are often as likely to be deceived by tape as informed by it. And it doesn't take a genius to see that a player who's 6'2'', runs a 4.28 with a 40" VJ and a 6.60 3-cone is freak of nature. Combine that with his dominant performance at the senior bowl, his family relationship with the best cb in the NFL, and his track prowess, and it's easy to get excited (even against my better judgment).

I appreciate the support PonyExpress and I couldn't agree more. Prior to the senior bowl, I'll be honest, I had hadn't even heard of this guy they call DRC. I knew nothing about him until that Saturday in Mobile, when I sat down listened to everything fed to me by Mayok and watched the game.

All I heard about from Mayok was him go off about Flowers and the constant whining about how McKelvin wouldn't play because he tweaked an ankle after he had a tremendous week of practice. So I sat back and watched the game, again still not knowing anything about this guy Cromartie, and aside from watching Sedrick Ellis toy with anyone who tried to block him, this tall, skinny corner #4 (again who I didn't even know) caught my eye in a huge, huge way. His interception and sideline close and break up of a square out were bona-fide NFL Ready plays and they were plays against the top seniors in the country (QB's and WR's included, not D2 kids). If people want to call the Senior Bowl a "glorified practice", you're flat out wrong, it's a game used by everyone to judge talent, that why they play the damn game in the first place, it's not a freakin practice by any means. I won't toot the guys horn any longer, I know I've done alot of that. But I will say this, we can stay safe and take the Brandon Alberts' or the Keith Rivers' and get more than likely a good - solid player with either one. Again, that's the safe, #7, "don't blow it pick" or you could be like me and want the bigger stakes, the higher payoff, a future pro bowl, lock down corner which there is no doubt in my mind that he will be. Maybe I'm more of a gambler, but I just think that DRC's chances of busting are miniscule and his upside ratio dwarfs his bust percentages.

 

[p8ryts]

Interesting. Keep in mind BB did the exact same thing during his Florida vacation with Channing Crowder and Kelly Jennings. Sometimes I wonder if he just does these visits as an excuse to meander around the sunshine state.

PS. Personally, I like Jenkins better at FS in the Geno mold. But what do i know? I'm a jack@$$.

PPS. Also, wouldn't surprise me if the target is Trae Williams in the mid rounds, more so than Jenkins in the 1st.

Yes, I think Trae Williams may be more likely to end up here.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Entirely opposite of what his coach says here:
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=80639
Read the entire series on DB's (linked at the bottom). Great stuff. cstjohn provided this link yesterday.

This really does not address the work ethic, prima donna, takes plays off,only tackles when he wants, and does not take to tough coaching issues.

Ther is no doubt that the kid has talent but so does everyone else. I'll take a kid with less talent and none of those isuses and he'll be a better NFL player.

But I'm sure the Patriots will do a much better check on him and if they draft him, I'll be OK with it. All I'm saying is from what I know about him, I wouldn't draft him, period. But in reality, I'm not drafting anyone.

 

[patchick]

However, the consensus is that this years draft class doesn't contain any "franchise" DB's worthy of taking in the top ten.

I've been thinking a little about this (I know, that's a dangerous thing). I actually think it may be the opposite -- that this draft has more top-10 type CBs than any draft in recent memory...and that's why none of them will go in the top 10.

Pacman Jones, 5'10" 187 4.47 with character concerns, was taken #6 in 2005. I see at least 3 CBs in this draft whom the Titans might well have taken over him.

There's a natural tendency to evaluate players against one another within a draft, so a group of rare standouts just looks like, well, a group. But several of them are top-10 level talents. I still don't want them in the top 10, though, because the position is so completely stacked that I think you can wait.

 

[Kontradiction]

I would be ecstatic if we got Jenkins. He was a mainstay on USF's defense last year which was a huge reason for the team's success. DRC is unproven because he plays in D-II. Jenkins is more of a sure thing at the position than the workout warrior.

 

[SunnyDenmark]

As Belicheck has been content over the years in drafting 3rd round (Ellis) and 4th round (Samuel) CB's, I don't think he will go first round with CB this year. - not at pick 7. Value not there and the draft is supposidly deep in CB. I'm guessing one of the 3rd rounders will be a CB.

Naturally, if Pats trade down in the first and all the top 3-5 OLB's ( and Rivers) are gone then I could see taking one of the 4 top CB's if any of them left.

Anybody NOT hoping for a trade down if Ghoston is not available at 7 ?