It's official: Big papi blows

[Synovia]

Jesus, are you beating this dead horse again? We get it McLovin; if you were the GM, you'd just sit tight, not offer him a new deal and let him get to free agency so he can get bowled over by another team and walk.

One trick pony=you.

And if that happens, they get 2 first round picks because hes a Type A. Jason Bay has a value, and its not a good thing to keep him if it costs you significantly more than that value.


Jason Bay at $12M a year for the next 4 makes the sox a better team. Jason Bay at $25M for the next 8 makes them significantly worse, especially in years 4-8.

 

[Double G]

And if that happens, they get 2 first round picks because hes a Type A. Jason Bay has a value, and its not a good thing to keep him if it costs you significantly more than that value.


Jason Bay at $12M a year for the next 4 makes the sox a better team. Jason Bay at $25M for the next 8 makes them significantly worse, especially in years 4-8.

25 million a year for 8 years? Who said that is what he is asking? Point me in the general direction, this should be a beauty.

NOONE is worth 200 million.

They had a chance to sign this guy and they chose not to.

End of story.

He will be the elite free agent outfielder on the market in 2010; if he walks, whoever they get to replace him will be a signficant downgrade.

Draft picks won't help you in 2010, or 2011, or 2012............

 

[IcyPatriot]

Ortiz hit his 8th tonight ... right of center @420 feet on an fastball about
knee high on the right side of the plate. Good poke ... 1-0 Sox.

 

[ausbacker]

Ortiz hit his 8th tonight ... right of center @420 feet on an fastball about
knee high on the right side of the plate. Good poke ... 1-0 Sox.

It's good to see Papi swinging his bat with confidence again.

 

[JoeSixPat]

if you were the GM, you'd just sit tight, not offer him a new deal and let him get to free agency so he can get bowled over by another team and walk.

One trick pony=you.

Can someone explain to Double G that by not signing Bay to an extension when he's in the midst of a run that would make Ted Williams look like a Little Leager that DOESN'T mean that the Sox will never make him an offer, nor that it's now pre-determined that Bay won't re-sign with the Sox?

If there's a rule that says a team can't, say use the time over the All-Star break to negotiate with a player - or even do so through the end of the season, I'd be interested in knowing why the Sox are now powerless to stop Bay from walking at the end of the season.

And who is this guy Noone that Double G thinks is worth $200 million. I've got to say that no one is worth that much.

The fact is, earlier this season bay was on pace for 170 hits and 50 home runs... that projection is coming back down to earth - he's been on a 150 hit 30 HR pace since - still very respectable with a 40 home run year still looking likely barring injury... it's that "barring injury" that could even bring both sides closer together.

But I'm not expecting the fact that Bay has cooled off slightly is going to hurt the Red Sox in their salary negotiations. Frankly, I don't particularly care if the Sox overpay or not - but I'm not naive enough to think that the SOX don't care about that.

The All Star break might be a perfect time for the Sox to renew their efforts. I don't have any inside information - though you seem to know for sure the Sox already blew it with Bay.

 

[Double G]

Can someone explain to Double G that by not signing Bay to an extension when he's in the midst of a run that would make Ted Williams look like a Little Leager that DOESN'T mean that the Sox will never make him an offer, nor that it's now pre-determined that Bay won't re-sign with the Sox?

If there's a rule that says a team can't, say use the time over the All-Star break to negotiate with a player - or even do so through the end of the season, I'd be interested in knowing why the Sox are now powerless to stop Bay from walking at the end of the season.

And who is this guy Noone that Double G thinks is worth $200 million. I've got to say that no one is worth that much.

The fact is, earlier this season bay was on pace for 170 hits and 50 home runs... that projection is coming back down to earth - he's been on a 150 hit 30 HR pace since - still very respectable with a 40 home run year still looking likely barring injury... it's that "barring injury" that could even bring both sides closer together.

But I'm not expecting the fact that Bay has cooled off slightly is going to hurt the Red Sox in their salary negotiations. Frankly, I don't particularly care if the Sox overpay or not - but I'm not naive enough to think that the SOX don't care about that.

The All Star break might be a perfect time for the Sox to renew their efforts. I don't have any inside information - though you seem to know for sure the Sox already blew it with Bay.

I'm doing a 180 on this as I heard over the weekend from someone (is it someone or SOME ONE there Joe, the mensa member that you are, let me know since you busted my balls over the noone/no one gaff) who is close to the situation and he said Bay and his agent wanted 15 million a year while the Sox offered him 12 million. If he and his agent think that in this current economic climate that he's worth 15 million a year when Dunn signed for 10 million, then he can walk at the end of the year and the Yankees are free to do what they do best, overspend for players.

The Sox front office did the right thing; if I were them, I'd stick to the 12 million, that is more than fair and if he and his agent do not agree, then goodbye and thanks for the memories.

I'm done with the sign Bay now stance, ok Joe, so you can stop busting my balls over that too...........

 

[JoeSixPat]

I'm doing a 180 on this as I heard over the weekend from someone (is it someone or SOME ONE there Joe, the mensa member that you are, let me know since you busted my balls over the noone/no one gaff) who is close to the situation and he said Bay and his agent wanted 15 million a year while the Sox offered him 12 million. If he and his agent think that in this current economic climate that he's worth 15 million a year when Dunn signed for 10 million, then he can walk at the end of the year and the Yankees are free to do what they do best, overspend for players.

The Sox front office did the right thing; if I were them, I'd stick to the 12 million, that is more than fair and if he and his agent do not agree, then goodbye and thanks for the memories.

I'm done with the sign Bay now stance, ok Joe, so you can stop busting my balls over that too...........

Aw darn it... just when I'm coming over to the other side.

Hindsight being 20/20 I'm sure the Sox wished they had gotten something done with Bay in the offseason rather than get to this point.

So while I'm not surprised the Sox chose not to do the bulk of their negotiating during Bay's hot streak - and I'm not giving up hope that some progress can be made over the all-star break, I'm having a tough time convincing myself that Bay's agent won't be pressing him hard to go into full free agency.

At the end of the day I think Bay does want to stay here - so will likely give the Sox a chance to meet any offer - but the price tag is going to be exceptionally high at that point... $15 million a season is probably the lowest it goes assuming he maintains a 40 HR pace.

The alternative for the Sox? Well as you've pointed out - there really are none in free agency.

Trades? A possibility - though I've not looked deeply into that... they might fill the hole with a quality guy at a reasonable contract (see Jason Bay's 1.5 years here) but eventually they'll have to re-sign or extend such a player AND they'll be giving up prospects in a trade. So the Sox will be asking themselves if it makes sense to go through all of that. AND lose prospects, over a difference of $3 million a season (and of course an extra year on the contract too.)

There's not too much to be done about it at this point except let things play out.

 

[Double G]

Aw darn it... just when I'm coming over to the other side.

Hindsight being 20/20 I'm sure the Sox wished they had gotten something done with Bay in the offseason rather than get to this point.

So while I'm not surprised the Sox chose not to do the bulk of their negotiating during Bay's hot streak - and I'm not giving up hope that some progress can be made over the all-star break, I'm having a tough time convincing myself that Bay's agent won't be pressing him hard to go into full free agency.

At the end of the day I think Bay does want to stay here - so will likely give the Sox a chance to meet any offer - but the price tag is going to be exceptionally high at that point... $15 million a season is probably the lowest it goes assuming he maintains a 40 HR pace.

The alternative for the Sox? Well as you've pointed out - there really are none in free agency.

Trades? A possibility - though I've not looked deeply into that... they might fill the hole with a quality guy at a reasonable contract (see Jason Bay's 1.5 years here) but eventually they'll have to re-sign or extend such a player AND they'll be giving up prospects in a trade. So the Sox will be asking themselves if it makes sense to go through all of that. AND lose prospects, over a difference of $3 million a season (and of course an extra year on the contract too.)

There's not too much to be done about it at this point except let things play out.

Joe,
All kidding and good natured ball busting aside, based on his performance the past few weeks, perhaps they were better off not coming to an agreement with him. The guy cannot hit the breaking stuff, a la Alfonso Suriano, remember how the Sox used to pitch him, curveball away, away, away and he'd just flail away helplessly, I'm seeing that lately with Bay.

At this point as you said, it's best to just let this play out and see what happens, but again, my thought is somone is going to overpay to get him in a weak class of free agent outfielders.

AND, as bad as last night was, today was incredible, Mothers Day Miracle part II vs the Orioles.

 

[maverick4]

Can someone explain to Double G that by not signing Bay to an extension

There's no use arguing with Double G, one of this entire forum's top five most idiotic posters ever.

 

[Double G]

There's no use arguing with Double G, one of this entire forum's top five most idiotic posters ever.

This from a dipstick who thinks McEnroe is on par with Lebron James, that Doc Rivers can't coach and it was the catchers fault that the Orioles won the other night.

You are dead from the neck up and you're calling me an idiot?

You effin moron.

 

[Double G]

Oh, and lest I forget THIS ****ing pearl of wisdom from you; "When healthy, Dice-K may be our best pitcher.........."

Better than Beckett, the guy who was brilliant in game 6 of the 2003 WS, brilliant again in game 5 of the ALCS (without that performance, the Red Sox go home and no WS title in 2007), or Lester, he of the no hitter and the winning pitcher in game 4 of the 2007 WS and the guy who pitched his ass off in game 7 of the ALCS last year?

BETTER than those two?


You've got balls the size of King Kong to call ANYONE on this forum an idiot and a brainpan on par with a flea to even come up with the foolish things that come out of your effin piehole.

You turd.

 

[captain insano]

There's no use arguing with Double G, one of this entire forum's top five most idiotic posters ever.

this coming from the biggest cement head i have ever encountered on any message board.

 

[maverick4]

"When healthy, Dice-K may be our best pitcher.........."

Better than Beckett, the guy who was brilliant in game 6 of the 2003 WS, brilliant again in game 5 of the ALCS (without that performance, the Red Sox go home and no WS title in 2007), or Lester, he of the no hitter and the winning pitcher in game 4 of the 2007 WS and the guy who pitched his ass off in game 7 of the ALCS last year?

Yet more screwed logic from you in citing individual playoff performances. Look at Beckett or Lester's overall numbers during their careers. Yes Beckett is a playoff stud, but Beckett and Lester's career and regular season numbers to this date aren't anywhere close to the pedestal you've put them on.

 

[Double G]

Yet more screwed logic from you in citing individual playoff performances. Look at Beckett or Lester's overall numbers during their careers. Yes Beckett is a playoff stud, but Beckett and Lester's career and regular season numbers to this date aren't anywhere close to the pedestal you've put them on.

And I'll say it again; only a complete and utter moron who has no clue about sports would call Dice K our best pitcher.

Just like a complete and utter moron would say Doc Rivers can't coach. Doc outcoached that self involved ballbag Phil Jackson last year in the finals.

Just like a complete and utter moron would say Kottaras is garbage. He is Wakefield's personal catcher and Wakefield is having one of his best seaons ever.

You are a priceless, clueless, brain dead boob.

 

[SmokeShowin]

My GF can out pitch Dice-K.

 

[Run DMC]

Hate to say I told you so. All haters can now officially kiss my Lilly-white ass. So obvious this guy was on Roids. Denial is not a river in Egypt.

 

[patsfanofNC12]

My GF can out pitch Dice-K.

More important, Is she hot?

 

[Synovia]

And I'll say it again; only a complete and utter moron who has no clue about sports would call Dice K our best pitcher.

We're talking about a guy who pitched 170 innings of 2.90 ERA ball last year to the tune of 18-3.