It Looks Like No Long term Deal between Pats and Welker

[Deus Irae]

They kinda had to go to him as apart from Wayne there wasn't much option, but what about Blair White?

The Colts had a front line receiver corps of Wayne, Garcon and Collie, with Clark and Tamme at TE, the same as they had the year before.

 

[Friend of PatFanKen]

patfanken what a great site you introduced me to the other day. Call me Sean

 

[jmt57]

patfanken what a great site you introduced me to the other day. Call me Sean

:welcome:

:rocker:

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

While I realize MoLewisRocks probably doesn't need other people fighting his battles for him, I just gotta say...

A) He's clearly not "sulking".
B) You're "sitting at a computer" attacking him over the Welker contract saga, how does that make you better?
C) Have you lost the ability to disagree with someone without attacking them?

I think you need to take a look at your posting of late and determine whether it could be considered "trolling."

You think, that?

Huh

Thanks for the tip.

 

[RobertWeathers]

You know what i mean, compared to who he is today and back then..

Brady makes every receiver better because he makes their job easier. WW goes from 67 catches to 100 or so because he is catching balls from the best QB on the planet, in a great offensive system, but also because he is a damn good receiver regardless.

I won't budge on this, Brady is a one of a kind that has made countless scrub type receivers become SB champions and put up record numbers. Welker wasn't a scrub but wasn't exactly a number 1 receiver because he did it all himself...

All depends what you define as a #1 receiver. if don't think 122 catches for 1500 yards and 7 TDs is not a #1 receiver just because he runs shorter routes makes him not a #1 receiver I dont know what to tell you.

I didn't mean Fitz LITERALLY. I was merely stating that top tier deep field receiver talent can be bought with that money....

I dont know what you implied as Fitz is putting up HoF numbers so that is the standard. Regardless, you aren't getting a top tier WR for what they offered WW.

Collie and Blair White are proof of what a Peyton like QB can do for you, they called it the 'Blair White project' for a reason and that was for him to be the Colts' Welker.

White catches 36 balls for PM in '10 and was hurt in 2011. You need to stop comparing #3, #4 and #5 WRs to WW.

 

[jmt57]

I haven't read through all 500+ comments, so my apologies if this was discussed previously.

One thing that I have read both here and elsewhere is the opinion that Welker should have accepted an offer of two years for $16 million.

In my opinion, I don't see a valid reason why he should have done that. He's making $9.5 million this year, which means that by accepting that offer he is in essence agreeing to play for $6.5 million in 2013.

The only way that becomes a good deal for Welker is if we think that as a free agent in 2013, the best he offer can expect to receive is a one-year contract for $6.5 million. Unless he gets injured - and yes, I'm factoring in that risk - it makes far more sense to go ahead and become a free agent; he's surely going to get a much better offer than that from somebody.

 

[goheels22002]

To me, this is an important point.

Beyond the age and contract stuff, the Pats might just think that AH is the heir-apprarant to WW's role with the team and along with a great 2012 campaign, he just might be the one getting the big-money extension- thus WWs $$.

The only issue is that he is not as good of a player as WW and who knows if he will ever be as productive.

I don't know about "not as good as WW." Hernandez is different. He has the ability to create open space against guys as big as he is and he certainly has the ability to catch the pass thrown into the ground away from coverage. Welker is elusive against CBs and safeties while Hernandez can just out-muscle them for position or go over them.

Both guys are real coverage problems in the slot for different reasons.

If Hernandez were to be the major checkdown guy on most passing downs, I imagine he could be as productive as Welker so long as his legs holds up. Hernandez' quickness off the line in the short routes is critical to him being a high-volume reception slot receiver. That quickness seems to diminish more rapidly in big guys than in smaller shifty guys like Welker. But at 22, Hernandez is still a very young guy.

MoLewisrocks' post about the 2013 contract side of this is a key variable for next year as well. The fact that Hernandez comes up for renewal at the same time as the Pats have to decide about tagging Welker at $11+million all-guaranteed is a bigger budget buster than this year.

Hernandez, if healthy and apparently productive after 2012, will be able to get a three or four-year deal at age 23. The NFL is a copycat league, so Hernandez' value goes up as other teams look to emulate the Evil Hooded Genius. Hernandez will have lucrative options, but not with teammates like Brady and Gronkowski to help him get the very most out of his skills.

Three weeks until the Patriots vs the Bountyhunters at Gillette.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I haven't read through all 500+ comments, so my apologies if this was discussed previously.

One thing that I have read both here and elsewhere is the opinion that Welker should have accepted an offer of two years for $16 million.

In my opinion, I don't see a valid reason why he should have done that. He's making $9.5 million this year, which means that by accepting that offer he is in essence agreeing to play for $6.5 million in 2013.

The only way that becomes a good deal for Welker is if we think that as a free agent in 2013, the best he offer can expect to receive is a one-year contract for $6.5 million. Unless he gets injured - and yes, I'm factoring in that risk - it makes far more sense to go ahead and become a free agent; he's surely going to get a much better offer than that from somebody.

The valid reason is that he loves it here and he is loved (by the fans and Kraft. Who knows about BB and the FO but giving him 9.5m makes me think that they want him). He is catching balls from the best Qb on the planet, plays for the best coach, best program, great offensive system and wins. Those have nothing to do with money.

Financially speaking, $16m guaranteed in a bank account is more than $9.5m. On the other hand he could leave and make more money via bonus/guarantees in 2013. its a dice roll for both parties.

If he has a great 2013, you are right. He might get a Ochocinco deal or walk for more money like other players like Willie or Ty Law have done and received that one last big payday.

its fair to say that relative to his producton peers, the Pats paid him less and offered less to him but WW could have easily taken the offer for the reasons I've highlighted.

I'm not saying he made a bad decision. Just saying that he made a choice. He trying to maximize his earnings potential and that is his right.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't know about "not as good as WW." Hernandez is different. He has the ability to create open space against guys as big as he is and he certainly has the ability to catch the pass thrown into the ground away from coverage. Welker is elusive against CBs and safeties while Hernandez can just out-muscle them for position or go over them.

Both guys are real coverage problems in the slot for different reasons.

If Hernandez were to be the major checkdown guy on most passing downs, I imagine he could be as productive as Welker so long as his legs holds up. Hernandez' quickness off the line in the short routes is critical to him being a high-volume reception slot receiver. That quickness seems to diminish more rapidly in big guys than in smaller shifty guys like Welker. But at 22, Hernandez is still a very young guy.

MoLewisrocks' post about the 2013 contract side of this is a key variable for next year as well. The fact that Hernandez comes up for renewal at the same time as the Pats have to decide about tagging Welker at $11+million all-guaranteed is a bigger budget buster than this year.

Hernandez, if healthy and apparently productive after 2012, will be able to get a three or four-year deal at age 23. The NFL is a copycat league, so Hernandez' value goes up as other teams look to emulate the Evil Hooded Genius. Hernandez will have lucrative options, but not with teammates like Brady and Gronkowski to help him get the very most out of his skills.

Three weeks until the Patriots vs the Bountyhunters at Gillette.

Yea I meant not as productive. I agree on all of your points. In theory if AH was targeted 150 or so times hed catch 100 or so passes for realative yardage. Thats what makes WW great, his consistiency. we just dont know what AH's upside is. I assume he still has a ton but who knows.

 

[Ivan]

It's Thursday and this is still coming in.

The ultimate expectation of letting the idiots run wild in the asylum.

Tell us again how the Patriots had a GOOD defense last season, I could use a good laugh.

 

[Ivan]

patfanken what a great site you introduced me to the other day. Call me Sean

C'mon Ken, being your own friend is like giving yourself a nickname.










On the other hand that post was less than 20,000 words, so maybe it isn't you after all.




Sincerely, A friend of a friend of PatfanKen.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Tell us again how the Patriots had a GOOD defense last season, I could use a good laugh.

No mirrors?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Tell us again how the Patriots had a GOOD defense last season, I could use a good laugh.

I'd suggest reading andyjohnson's thread called a balanced look at the defense.

The defense was not horrible. They wern't great. They were decent and did enough a good chunk of the time and not enough some of the time.

 

[treeclimber]

God I hope Lloyd is as advertised. Look at these catches:

With another year for Gronkowski, Hernandez, and then the addition of this guy:

Hopefully Brady can forget all about Welker. I know I'm ready to.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Hopefully Brady can forget all about Welker. I know I'm ready to.

You'll just have to suffer with another year of 100+ catches, 1300+ yards with 60% of those going for 1st downs and a handful of TDs.

What is your problem with WW?

 

[treeclimber]

You'll just have to suffer with another regular season of 100+ catches, 1300+ yards with 60% of those going for 1st downs and a handful of TDs.

What is your problem with WW?

Fixed for accuracy. I've already detailed my problems with him, I'm not going to beat a dead horse.

 

[Kontradiction]

Fixed for accuracy. I've already detailed my problems with him, I'm not going to beat a dead horse.

Well that's good because your mother has taken quite a beating lately.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Fixed for accuracy. I've already detailed my problems with him, I'm not going to beat a dead horse.

i've come out and said that his numbers dip in the playoffs but to want him off the team is outlandish thinking.

 

[treeclimber]

i've come out and said that his numbers dip in the playoffs but to want him off the team is outlandish thinking.

Eh, that's debatable. Getting rid of Milloy was also outlandish in the court of popular opinion.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Eh, that's debatable. Getting rid of Milloy was also outlandish.

Go look at Milloy's production or lack thereof in 2002. 0 sacks, 0 picks, 0 forced fumbles, 0 fumble recoveries.

Thats essentialy WW finishing with 60 catches 500 yds and 2 TDs and led in his feet.