Is the assertion that Belichick's drafts have been poor accurate?

[Bombdog]

Alot of folks were upset with this years draft.But it looks like Solder is a great pick.Cannon has shown alot in a short time and looks like a future starter. The only bad pick appears to be the glassman Ras I. I bet the Jesters would love either Solder or Cannon over Vlad the turnstile.

IN BILL WE TRUST GO PATS :rocker:

 

[Ivan]

The one thing that the "Pats fans are too spoiled" crowd misses is that as long as the Pats have BB and a healthy Brady, they are going to be "in the hunt" every season, period.

We will return to mediocrity or worse soon enough when BB and Brady are gone--that's the whole point. This is one of the rare cases where short term thinking actually makes sense when it comes to drafting, among other things. There is probably no other team you can say that about.

Actually you have it backwards, what the spoiled Patriot fans are missing is just how good a run this is and how lucky we are to be around for it. the bottom line is that when a team is in the hunt every year they are going to lose more play-off games than they win Super Bowls, but they are also going to win more play-off games and Super Bowls than everyone else, and that is exactly what Belichik has done, and the idea that people cannot appreciate it for what it is and have to b.tch endlessly about how flawed they are is really ridiculous.

As for your other point I agree completely and said the same thing a couple of weeks ago, Belichik should be loading up for the next 4 years to close out Brady's career with the best possible team around him. Spend for impact free agents and move up in the draft and use 1st's now instead of trading out so consistently. If he can do for the defense what he did for the offense after the 2006 season then they will be in great shape going forward and i think the pieces are there to do just that. They need help on defense but have both the cap room and cash to get it and the picks to support that.

 

[scout]

And being pissed about a team that is in the hunt every year is stupid and spoiled.

As evidenced by his "2007......" Everyone was pissed at not winning a world championship that year. We should hang the coach because he misled us in believing we had the greatest team eva.

 

[Ivan]

Last time I checked, defense was still part of the game. A diminishing part but a part nonetheless.

1 Conference Championship an 0 Lombardi's in 6 years despite having a 21-3 lead in the 2006 AFCCG, A 4 point lead with 2.39 left on a perfect season and a SB championship on the line. 33 points, 234 yards and 4 TDs to Baltimore in the 09 playoffs and a one and done as a #1 seed in 2010 while Mark Sanchez throws 3 TDs and the Pats D gives up 28 points. Chances are they'll go in again as a #1 seed this year and we'll see if the results will be any different this time.

In other words, if they don't win it all they suck. Belichik got a weak 2006 team within a minute of the Super Bowl and took the next team to an 18-0 record before a last second loss in the Bowl, that's a great accomplishment not evidence of failure, which is what the crybabies are treating it as. No other team in football has enjoyed this kind of success since the 80's and for Patriot fans to be up in arms like they are getting ripped off is beyond stupid.

 

[Joker]

some Patriots fans, Ivan...some of us have a deep appreciation for what Mr. Belichick has done since he took over

 

[Ivan]

some Patriots fans, Ivan...some of us have a deep appreciation for what Mr. Belichick has done since he took over

I agree, there are many who do, and there are also critics who make valid points about many different issues, what i take issue with is the people who take that criticism to the "suck" level, which is what many of the draft critics do. People can point accurately to bad picks and bad drafts and bad free agent decisions, but that can be done for every team and those criticizing Belichik are never able to do so in the context of what everyone else has done yet act as if they are without anything to support them. The truth of the matter is that the teams that draft the best are also, no surprise, the teams that have the most success on a consistent basis, yet the people ripping Belichik ignore that and act as if they are losers despite clear evidence they are everything but.

Much as I love the draft i believe it and the advent of fantasy football has created an environment wherein many who follow the draft and play fantasy football now actually believe they know more than the actual teams and GM's and coaches, and think they could do a better job and tell us so in an endless and nauseating fashion. I'm not suggesting they give these activities up but they really need to get a frigging grip and realize they really don't know squat, and insisting they do just makes them look like idiots. And for the record, if someone takes offense to this then they can be satisfied in knowing that I really am talking about them

 

[Joker]

The draft has always been a passion of mine going all the way back....it's been repackaged and tinkered with to ostensibly play to the masses, which is unfortunate but the reality in our "quick gratification" society. What has really screwed almost all facets of rational analysis is the INFUSION of fantasy football axioms into the mix. It's human nature to identify with a pursuit they are engaged in so heavily that they begin to believe in their own "fantasy" abilities and transmute that to real life.

Pandora's Box...out come the genius fantasy Yodas..the rest is history..

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I love watching the draft every year. When I don't have a bunch of crap to focus on in work or in real life, it's really fun to get caught up in "scouting..." But I'm never dumb enough to start with this idiotic crap about how "I knew better" and "why don't they pick _____ from X University at [draft pick #]..." It's bad enough every draft day, and it's worse 5 years later when people have conveniently forgotten all their wrong pick. Reminds me of guys who tell you they're making money hand over fist in the stock market because of their smart e-trade picks, but if you actually look, they'd have done better with a generic basket of diversified stocks & fixed income investments.

Feh.

 

[Don Kipines]

Alot of folks were upset with this years draft.But it looks like Solder is a great pick.Cannon has shown alot in a short time and looks like a future starter. The only bad pick appears to be the glassman Ras I. I bet the Jesters would love either Solder or Cannon over Vlad the turnstile.

IN BILL WE TRUST GO PATS :rocker:

If you come out of any draft with one starter and one consistent contributor, you're doing okay. The drafts that kill teams are the ones with busts in the first round. Basically, if you hit on your first rounders and get lucky with 1-2 other players out of seven rounds, you're in good shape.

The Pats this year got at least one starting OL in Solder, maybe another in Cannon, and, seemingly, one good running back in Ridley. Solder looks like he's a future Pro Bowler. That makes for a good draft already.

If Vereen and/or Dowling pan out, that's just gravy. And Mallett, who knows, could really make this a big draft.

BB has drafted badly on defense. But he's been extremely good on offense, the wideouts notwithstanding.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

In other words, if they don't win it all they suck. Belichik got a weak 2006 team within a minute of the Super Bowl and took the next team to an 18-0 record before a last second loss in the Bowl, that's a great accomplishment not evidence of failure, which is what the crybabies are treating it as. No other team in football has enjoyed this kind of success since the 80's and for Patriot fans to be up in arms like they are getting ripped off is beyond stupid.

No not in other words they suck, I didn't say that, I didn't come close to saying that. 4 golden opportunities to win another championship have come up short mainly because of defensive failings. You can sugarcoat losing an 18 point lead in the AFCCG or a perfect season with less than 3 minutes to go or a one and done as the #1 seed all you want. There's no rule saying you can't be appreciative of what they have accomplished and still not be satisfied. The teams drafting, especially when it comes to defense, deserves to be questioned. Why does it have to be one extreme or the other with some of you.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Actually you have it backwards, what the spoiled Patriot fans are missing is just how good a run this is and how lucky we are to be around for it. the bottom line is that when a team is in the hunt every year they are going to lose more play-off games than they win Super Bowls, but they are also going to win more play-off games and Super Bowls than everyone else, and that is exactly what Belichik has done, and the idea that people cannot appreciate it for what it is and have to b.tch endlessly about how flawed they are is really ridiculous.

As for your other point I agree completely and said the same thing a couple of weeks ago, Belichik should be loading up for the next 4 years to close out Brady's career with the best possible team around him. Spend for impact free agents and move up in the draft and use 1st's now instead of trading out so consistently. If he can do for the defense what he did for the offense after the 2006 season then they will be in great shape going forward and i think the pieces are there to do just that. They need help on defense but have both the cap room and cash to get it and the picks to support that.

So you can say they need help on defense but if someone else points out it's because of poor drafting then they "cannot appreciate it for what it is and have to b.tch endlessly about how flawed they are is really ridiculous."

 

[Ivan]

So you can say they need help on defense but if someone else points out it's because of poor drafting then they "cannot appreciate it for what it is and have to b.tch endlessly about how flawed they are is really ridiculous."

Saying they still need help or that Belichik sucks at drafting are 2 completely different things, just as saying Belichik has had bad picks and bad drafts is different than saying he sucks at drafting, and the topic here is whether or not he is poor at drafting, with one side saying that he is and pointing to a few drafts that fit their argument and the other saying that the critics are biased and cherrypicking to make their argument, which they clearly are. And yes, those who can never be satisfied with their success because they don't win every year are completely unreasonable and spoiled. Find another team that has done better then tell us about how bad off we are.

And while it is fair to say that the defense cost them the 2006 AFCC game the SB loss was because of the OL and the offense was what really let them down against Baltimore and the Jets. Winning it all is really tough to do, and pointing to them being so close so aften as a sign of weakness is a really poor argument.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Here's my issues with how fans tend to see the draft process:

1. For many of those that don't like how we trade down and accumulate picks instead of adding elite talent, they will cherry pick their "updated" draft. If we only had one pick in the 2009 2nd round and Butler, Brace and Vollmer are on the board, obviously the Pats would take Vollmer. Clearly. ;-) We also would have found a way to move up for Gronkowski last year. It has to be understood that it's very possible some of the great players on our team wouldn't be here if not for those extra picks. We can't just assume the ones that worked out would be here and the busts would have never been picked.

2. The very common "we could have still gotten him later" argument. The reach. In the 2010 draft, many mock drafts and many here had the Pats taking Tyson Alualu with one of their 2nd rounders. Had the Pats taken him at our original #22 spot, the pick would have been blasted by many here as a reach, since we could have still gotten him later. As it turned out, pick #22 was 12 picks too late. There's countless examples like this in every draft, yet some stay convinced that certain players were taken too high.

3. Finally, I second what the original poster said in the article. Fans will only look at the successes of other team's drafts and ignore the failures, and do the opposite for the Pats. Limas Sweed was a complete bust of a 2nd round pick for the Steelers but who cares? They have Mike Wallace now. Justin Harrell did nothing for Green Bay. Who cares? They have BJ Raji now. As for the Pats, of course we should have landed Mayo, Vollmer, Gronkowski, Hernandez, etc. It's Butler, Brace, Cunningham and the others that define our drafts.

We trade up into the 1st round, not once, but twice,get two defensive players that can get after the passer and are strong against the run,,another one in the 3rd, a 1st or 2nd round talent Cb that dropped to the 7th, as well as the best Wr in the Big 10. Some people still aren't happy no matter what the Pats do. All they can complain about is Wilson and a rugby player with huge upside. Incredible.

 

[Mainefan]

We're in the middle of one of the greatest dynasties in professional football history and we're questioning the personnel judgments of the man who assembles and directs the team? There's only one word for this: moronic.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

terrible article deliberately calculated to come up with a predetermined answer by slanting the facts...

The author even had to put in a disclaimer because it would have undermined his argument. That's pathetic.

The total numbers of failures and percentage of failures are completely irrelavent.

That's what the imbeciles and our village idiots always hang their hat on.

Notice who doesn't agree with that concept. Is that an accident?

Case closed move along.

 

[Ivan]

We trade up into the 1st round, not once, but twice,get two defensive players that can get after the passer and are strong against the run,,another one in the 3rd, a 1st or 2nd round talent Cb that dropped to the 7th, as well as the best Wr in the Big 10. Some people still aren't happy no matter what the Pats do. All they can complain about is Wilson and a rugby player with huge upside. Incredible.

Exactly, and the irony is that the people pissing and moaning as always are those who said they would sell their souls for Belichick to do exactly what he did and trade up for front 7 passrushers, and it still isn't good enough. Truth is there can be no good enough if this team doesn't fit the criteria for it because they are on a run of success that few if any teams have ever enjoyed, and when the Belichick/Brady era ends it will go down as the greatest run of success any franchise has ever had. So if people can't enjoy that and are desperately miserable in perpetuity then so be it, just as long as they don't try to pretend they could actually have done better, because that is absolute crazy talk.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

So r u saying trading the 23rd pick in the draft for what ends up being a home run on pick at 42 a year later (when BB took a chance on an ijuried player) and a special teamer in Edelman plus two busts is a good trade????


Com'on Man!

Butler was a complete bust, Tate at least could return kicks (and shouldn't have been cut this year) (another questionable roster move).

The fact reamins the Pats could have had Clay Matthews, and Gronkowski (as they traded up for him anyways), plus any number of other guys.

James Kirk put BB CB drafting stategey best...

"Yes, BB (Khan) your still picking CB every year in the draft, you managed to pick every bust CB out there, but like a poor marksman, you keep missing your target"

The Pats are going to have to draft ANOTHER CB next year, and hope that he isn't a bust (Yes, I'm already placing Made of Glass on IR for next year too). Meanwhile the lack of an elite player in the front seven is STILL the biggest need since McGinest left for Cleveland and Seymour was shipped out for Solder.

Another great clue on the debate

Only an idiot would take Clay Matthews over Gronkowski.

Clay Matthews sucks. Bosworth with a few extra years.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Sure they did, but that was a completely different team with completely different players playing a completely different schedule.

IF Brady went down THIS season with THIS team, I can't see the Patriots winning more than 4 or 5 games.

You are completely clueless on what actually happens yet you think you are Nostradameus?

LOL

 

[Metaphors]

The thing people need to look at is the overall depth of the team. If on the first 11-on-11 practice snap every starter goes down with an injury (imagine that for a minute), here is what the Pats would put out on the field:

QB Hoyer (Mallett)
RB Vereen (Woodhead)
WR Branch, Ocho, Edelman (Gonzalez)
TE Fells
OT Cannon, Gallery
OG Connolly, Thomas
C Wendell (McDonald)

DL Love, Pryor, Fanene (Brace)
LB Hightower, Fletcher, Scott, Jones (Carpenter)
CB Arrington, Allen (Dennard)
S Barrett, Moore (Wilson)

I'm not saying that is a contending team, but it is surprising competent (and not bereft of depth) considering the loss of 22 starters. And they would still have a solid core of ST aces that weren't raided to be starters.

Try the same exercise with any other team and the results will likely not be pleasant. The Pats are on a 9-year run with both a mean and median season of 13 wins. For comparison, since the introduction of the 16 game schedule in 1978, the Steelers have had 3 seasons of 13 wins or better. The Colts and Packers (4 each) aren't much better. The rest of the AFC East has only 3 combined. Only the 49ers with 8 in 17 years is comparable (though most of those occurred pre-salary cap).

This is despite losing numerous key players every year to injury. The draft is a complementary part of the team building process, along with trades, FA and UDFA. That is an art more than a science which makes people uncomfortable when they try to quantify it. There is always a method to Belichick's madness. Taking chances on unorthodox choices and having real opportunities for players lower on the depth chart to advance is a philosophical decision. Failure is always an option and Belichick isn't immune...but sometimes failure is an anticipated (and necessary) part of the process.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Is the assertion that Belichick's drafts have been poor accurate?
By: John Morgan

The masses are chanting that the Patriots are horrible at drafting, and Bill Belichick should be banned from the war room. Here's a rebuttal for all the negative nancies who have been so quick to declare that the sky is falling....

CLICK HERE TO READ THIS STORY​

I don't care what any tally says. Belichick has found all but one or two replacements for the 2007 Superbowl club, in the intervening 4 years.

The players he found from wherever or whatever round, or dumpster, were good enough to produce the best record in the AFC last year and the year before, as well as earning a Superbowl appearance this January.

That is better than anyone else has done over the same period.

Quod est Demonstratum. Q.E.D.