Is Jackson's start a Bad Omen?

[pats1]

No, I'm not arguing that and I don't think Casale was either. I think he was just saying he needs to get back as soon as he possibly can so he can get used to the offense. Let's face it, Branch or no Branch, the Patriots offense will be much more dangerous this season if Jackson can be a factor. That's all I'm saying.

I agree that the practice time is valuable, and Jackson is back.

However, here's what Casale said in the CampCast:

"...Jackson is one [of those who were out] that has caught my eye. The Patriots have had 13 practices and he's only partaken in two of them. That's a problem for me. He's a rookie receiver. Typically in the NFL, rookie receivers don't make an impact in their first year in general. But rookie receivers that don't even show up to training camp, for most of training camp, are really going to have a hard time getting used to an offense, especially an offense like this that has a lot of audibles, it's complex, Brady does a lot at the line of scrimmage. Chad Jackson needs to be out on the field getting chemistry like Tom Brady much like Reche Caldwell has done. We haven't seen Caldwell in a game yet, but he's looked very good in practice, and Brady looks at him a lot. Jackson needs to step up and have a decent season. He doesn't need to have Randy Moss rookie numbers, but he needs to come in and contribute, and so far, no being on the field, that's hurt his development. And Brady I think has taken notice because a lot of the young receivers, some of the Matt Shelton's and the guys that may not make the team, he's not even looking their way when they're running offensive drills. He's looking to Reche Caldwell, Troy Brown, and Ben Watson. Those are virtually all the guys that catch Brady's passes. Every now and then Bam Childress will catch one but he's mainly looking at the veterans. So Chad Jackson needs to get back on the field and get in-sync with Tom Brady..."

I can't argue with some of that, but he has an injury Casale, not a contract situation.

If you go through and substitute 'Branch' for 'Jackson,' then the whole thing makes sense. But if you put in an injured player like Jackson, Rodney, Gay - whoever - the premise of the rant takes a hit.

And of course Brady is going to look for Troy and Ben and Reche first. Why would him looking for his #4 WR be a priority and critical to the offense's success over Brady looking for the #1 TE and #2 and #3 WRs?

Who knows, maybe it was just the wording that irked me.

"didn't show up for training camp..." Again, he's making it sound like Jackson is holding out, has an attitude problem, or what-not. I'm sure Jackson wants to be out there as much as the next guy, but it's the team that's holding him back to make sure another injury doesn't make the WR position thinner than it should be.

"hurt his development..." What would hurt his development more? Working out and rehabbing - at the expense of missing a week's worth of practice, then having a better chance of staying healthy OR rushing back just to get reps with Brady, getting hurt, and then having to sit around, then start rehab again, then start practice - it could be MONTHS instead of a WEEK. THAT would hurt his development. One week of training camp isn't going to make-or-break his season, nevermind his career.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

No, I'm with you on this... Jackson needs reps big time, needs time to start to develop timing with, and trust from Brady.

Yup, and we need to develop WR's who are not only talented but durable. In fact with Brady behind Center durable edges out talent by a hair. We don't need a bunch of elite WR to prop up this QB, although it would be wonderful to see what he could do with that kind of bunch. Every WR on the roster right now has either durablity issues or virtually no NFL experience. If Branch decides to grace us with his presence before the pre season commences, and doesn't manage to pull a hammy playing catchup, we should be OK early on given the schedule and the upgrade to the running game and hopefully the presence of enough TE's to run lots of 2 TE sets (at the moment we only have 2 fully functioning TE's and one is a rookie). Branch, Caldwell and Brown should be sufficient, but that is presuming those 3 remain healthy when the bell rings. If they aren't, or if they get dinged up early on or if - and this is a distinct possibility - Branch is a no show through camp and possibly beyond - we need not just a highly rated draft pick but one who has established some level of rapore and timing with a QB who in mini-camp kept losing sight of him for some reason...

I think there are lots of bad omens floating around this team at the moment - Deion digging in, Harrison and Koppen being joined by Seymour and Graham and Gay and Kaczur on PUP out of the gate and through the first full week of TC, Tedy potentially lost for several weeks, 50% of our off season FA ST Gunner/DB veteran depth addition just lost to IR, Beisel and Brown seemingly getting dinged up already...

There are of course good omens like Dillon and Maroney, Thomas and Reche, Troy and Light all looking as good if not better than hoped.

In 2001 Drew's performance in pre season was a bad omen. So too was his injury in week 2 in the opinion of many, but then again that turned out to be a good omen....ditto the 11th hour cutting of Milloy in 2003, not to mention losing both starting corners early in 2004...so this team does have a track record of being the type that when handed a bunch of bitter lemons ends up making pretty tasty lemonade (flavored kool aid, that is). But last season we ran short of the sugar or something, so it doesn't always come out the way we recall when it is at it's tastiest.

Things are not off the a particularly auspicious start in 2006 though, and to refuse to even acknowledge that means you probably need to exchange your rose colored glasses for bi-focals. However, given the 2006 schedule and the fact that Brady and Belichick remain, and that the odds favor most if not all of the missing turning up before December, it is certainly not time to panic, and if you are seriously second guessing at this juncture as opposed to voicing concern then you probably need a lobotomy as opposed to new eyewear...

But even Brady and Belichick are likely concerned to say the least at the way the football gods have apparently chosen to persist in ***** slapping our valient franchise this season....all we ask for is something resembling relative parity where player availability concerned. It's as if every other teams players are rehabbing ahead of schedule and suddenly we realize we have a bunch of guys still rehabbing from injures we didn't even know existed from last season and two of our 4 top rookies are struggling to get on (or stay on) the practice field. In the past the rose colored crew immediately dismissed concerns about such picks and relagated them to the red shirt IR stash from which they would optomistically emerge next season and shine - but the Claridge and Sam and Johnson unceremonious departures of late should be beginning to alter that kind of thinking.
:bricks:

If all we're here to do is wave the pom poms, there won't be much to talk about. If you disagree with someone, explain your rationale. But the sky is falling marginalizing of others less rosy opinions is getting a little old. The truth in week one of TC lies somewhere in between those two polarizing points of view.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Mo has touched on a strange phenomenom which I have observed. When things look bad, this team overachieves. When things look good, this team underachieves. Last year, things looked good at the end of the season, and we laid a serious egg in Denver.

I officially think that Branch is done with the Pats. Not by his choice, but by bad advice from a bullsh1t agent. I think that the only way Branch shows up now is if he grows a sack and openly defies his agent.

So times are grim. Which sometimes is when the Pats succeed, in my opinion. Don't know why. But we won our superbowls with the record amount of injuries in 2003-04 and with Drew's injury in 2001. Maybe somebody will step up for Branch, and maybe Bruschi will be back at week 6 to shore up our defense.

Stranger things have happened.

 

[pats1]

Yup, and we need to develop WR's who are not only talented but durable. In fact with Brady behind Center durable edges out talent by a hair. We don't need a bunch of elite WR to prop up this QB, although it would be wonderful to see what he could do with that kind of bunch. Every WR on the roster right now has either durablity issues or virtually no NFL experience. If Branch decides to grace us with his presence before the pre season commences, and doesn't manage to pull a hammy playing catchup, we should be OK early on given the schedule and the upgrade to the running game and hopefully the presence of enough TE's to run lots of 2 TE sets (at the moment we only have 2 fully functioning TE's and one is a rookie). Branch, Caldwell and Brown should be sufficient, but that is presuming those 3 remain healthy when the bell rings. If they aren't, or if they get dinged up early on or if - and this is a distinct possibility - Branch is a no show through camp and possibly beyond - we need not just a highly rated draft pick but one who has established some level of rapore and timing with a QB who in mini-camp kept losing sight of him for some reason...

I think there are lots of bad omens floating around this team at the moment - Deion digging in, Harrison and Koppen being joined by Seymour and Graham and Gay and Kaczur on PUP out of the gate and through the first full week of TC, Tedy potentially lost for several weeks, 50% of our off season FA ST Gunner/DB veteran depth addition just lost to IR, Beisel and Brown seemingly getting dinged up already...

Camp injuries can get overblown, as any team isn't going to take any risk with any player. I'm sure if the Pats were playing a regular season game this week, almost every player, including those on the PUP, would be playing - the lone exception being Rodney. Most of these are just very simple injuries that any player plays through most weeks. The kind of injuries that fill up the Pats' injury report with "questionables" and "probables" some weeks.

On the same token, early camp performances need to be taken with a grain of salt as well. The whole dynamic of camp is so different than that of the regular season you don't know what to expect, even from the players who had "great camps."

I wouldn't say Jackson's injury is an "omen" or any of that crap towards his durability, nor are most of the little injuries we've seen thus far.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Camp injuries can get overblown, as any team isn't going to take any risk with any player. I'm sure if the Pats were playing a regular season game this week, almost every player, including those on the PUP, would be playing - the lone exception being Rodney. Most of these are just very simple injuries that any player plays through most weeks. The kind of injuries that fill up the Pats' injury report with "questionables" and "probables" some weeks.

On the same token, early camp performances need to be taken with a grain of salt as well. The whole dynamic of camp is so different than that of the regular season you don't know what to expect, even from the players who had "great camps."

I wouldn't say Jackson's injury is an "omen" or any of that crap towards his durability, nor are most of the little injuries we've seen thus far.

Well when you put it that way it sounds like NBD...only you (and the rest of us) have no real idea what the nature of any of these guys injuries are because BB operates in that need to know environment and we don't (technically) need to know. Some of these guys had surgery in the off season that we were totally unaware of. Others had surgery last Fall and are still not fully recovered. It's been years now since anyone saw Randall Gay do anything but limp onto a field. I certainly hope he and the rest of the walking wounded can do better sooner this season....but that's all it is is hope at this point. Bill doesn't tend to "assume" much, and therefore neither do I any more.

 

[SoonerPatriot]

Legit discussion flies out the window when Chad Jackson missing time early and then struglging in his first couple practices back turns into him being the next Bethel, and that the offense is out of sync because of Jackson, and thus the Patriots can't win early and will be kept out of the playoffs.

I can understand displeasure, but some of what both JR4 (above) and you (signature, "draft picks won't get signed until October") have said, it almost goes to a Borges-like negative twist on every story.

All I ask is that you don't take the next plunge and start rambling on about how Brady is lucky, a product of the Weis/BB system, and without the tuck rule he'd be out of football by now.

I think sometimes you take things a little too literally. The October thing was an obvious exageration and a bit of a joke. Didn't think it actually had to be explained. And incidentally, I'm still trying to figure out where I said the offense is out of synch because a rookie WR hasn't been on the field much. Anyway, why do we need Chad when you've already proclaimed Reche a HOFer? See I can make **** up too.

 

[I'm Ron Borges?]

Camp injuries can get overblown, as any team isn't going to take any risk with any player. I'm sure if the Pats were playing a regular season game this week, almost every player, including those on the PUP, would be playing - the lone exception being Rodney. Most of these are just very simple injuries that any player plays through most weeks. The kind of injuries that fill up the Pats' injury report with "questionables" and "probables" some weeks.

On the same token, early camp performances need to be taken with a grain of salt as well. The whole dynamic of camp is so different than that of the regular season you don't know what to expect, even from the players who had "great camps."

I wouldn't say Jackson's injury is an "omen" or any of that crap towards his durability, nor are most of the little injuries we've seen thus far.

How many players that are out are rookies? Two: Mills and Jackson. I don't give a darn when Seymour and Branch get back on the field as long as they are back when the season starts. They don't really need training camp that much. However, I don't put rookies - especially receivers - in the same category.

I just think your nuts if you think Jackson can miss two or three weeks of camp, a couple of preseason games and just come out and be a major factor when they line up for real. In my mind, that's just not realistic but hopefully he'll be back on Monday and it will all be moot.

 

[pats1]

How many players that are out are rookies? Two: Mills and Jackson. I don't give a darn when Seymour and Branch get back on the field as long as they are back when the season starts. They don't really need training camp that much. However, I don't put rookies - especially receivers - in the same category.

I just think your nuts if you think Jackson can miss two or three weeks of camp, a couple of preseason games and just come out and be a major factor when they line up for real. In my mind, that's just not realistic but hopefully he'll be back on Monday and it will all be moot.

Who said he'll miss 2 weeks? He's already back in practice. It was a week missed. The practice he missed a few days back was probably because they wanted to ease him back in (instead of having a week of rehab and then a two-a-day right off the bat). It's still possible that he'll miss the game this Friday, but that's nothing earth-shattering.

 

[pats1]

I think sometimes you take things a little too literally. The October thing was an obvious exageration and a bit of a joke. Didn't think it actually had to be explained. And incidentally, I'm still trying to figure out where I said the offense is out of synch because a rookie WR hasn't been on the field much.

That was insinuated by JR4, not you.

The whole October thing isn't what matters, it's the unfounded negativity. At that point, negotiations were at the same point as the year before, and I'm sure the year before that. I saw it as a Borges move - trying to find something to be negative about.

 

[I'm Ron Borges?]

Who said he'll miss 2 weeks? He's already back in practice. It was a week missed. The practice he missed a few days back was probably because they wanted to ease him back in (instead of having a week of rehab and then a two-a-day right off the bat). It's still possible that he'll miss the game this Friday, but that's nothing earth-shattering.

He's not back at practice. He came back for one day and then has been out ever since. He was not present Friday. I hope he does come back Monday but if he misses another week or so, then I'm saying I would start to get concerned.

 

[pats1]

He's not back at practice. He came back for one day and then has been out ever since. He was not present Friday. I hope he does come back Monday but if he misses another week or so, then I'm saying I would start to get concerned.

He came back for 3 practices (8th, 9th, 10th) but has missed the last 3 (11th, 12th, 13th).

 

[JoeSixPat]

We're the Patriots.
We've got TEs and RBs who catch the ball.
We don't need no stinkin wide receivers!

One would think that one wouldn't need to convince a guy with the member name flutie2phelan the value of wide receivers.

Think sports history would have been a little different if Flutie's only option on that final play was a short dump pass to his RB?

 

[spacecrime]

This keeps getting funnier!

First Jackson missing practice time means his chemistry and development take a hit.

Then, at the "critical" date of August 4, him missing practice means the entire offense will suffer.

Now, the Pats are going to be lucky to stay ahead of the Bills and Jets in the division early on because their #4 WR missed a week of early training camp practice.

Please, I want to know what's next. 0-16 season if Jackson drops a ball in practice Monday?

You aren't paying attention. CJ missed the first few practices!!!!! In his first couple of training camp practices he was behind and showed it!!!!!!! He will never amount to anything. It's August 5. Time is running out! Ack. Our first preseaosn game is only a week away. Too late. We have run out of time. We're doomed.

 

[pats1]

You aren't paying attention. CJ missed the first few practices!!!!! In his first couple of training camp practices he was behind and showed it!!!!!!! He will never amount to anything. It's August 5. Time is running out! Ack. Our first preseaosn game is only a week away. Too late. We have run out of time. We're doomed.

Liar.

Go play with all your pitch-black glasses friends.

 

[spacecrime]

Go play with all your pitch-black glasses friends.

My glasses broke when a piece of hte sky fell on them....

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

My glasses broke when a piece of hte sky fell on them....

@%^$&%#!@ Seagulls!

 

[I'm Ron Borges?]

You aren't paying attention. CJ missed the first few practices!!!!! In his first couple of training camp practices he was behind and showed it!!!!!!! He will never amount to anything. It's August 5. Time is running out! Ack. Our first preseaosn game is only a week away. Too late. We have run out of time. We're doomed.

I love the "we're doomed" line when people are actually trying to have a conversation about football. Pats1 and I disagree but at least he's bringing up points in his argument. I love the "oh, no we're doomed" and "In Bill we trust" the best. Let's just keep falling back on that. You know, because those of us who are a little concerned that Jackson hasn't been on the field much think we are doomed and the season is over. Yeah, that's what I said. Great point. I don't ever remember one person in this thread saying that Jackson wouldn't amount to anything. Thanks for contributing so much to the topic other than, "The Patriots are great because..." Dynamite drop-in buddy.

 

[SunnyDenmark]

I love the "we're doomed" line when people are actually trying to have a conversation about football. Pats1 and I disagree but at least he's bringing up points in his argument. I love the "oh, no we're doomed" and "In Bill we trust" the best. Let's just keep falling back on that. You know, because those of us who are a little concerned that Jackson hasn't been on the field much think we are doomed and the season is over. Yeah, that's what I said. Great point. I don't ever remember one person in this thread saying that Jackson wouldn't amount to anything. Thanks for contributing so much to the topic other than, "The Patriots are great because..." Dynamite drop-in buddy.

They are just exaggerating and using sarcasm to what they consider alittle too much melo-dramaticism (is that even a word?). If you reread the threat opener - you will see the words. "really disturbed" and later "very disturbing" then "another Bethel in progress?" and finally "Great potential unrealized?".
I don't wish to recite all the quotes in this thread - but it just seems to me (and others) that not even into the first pre-season game, that quotes such as those are just maybe alittle premature and overdramatic -unless it was meant as sarcasm which I do not believe was the intention.

Yes, in the ideal world - he would have no injuries and made all the practices. But maybe there are some silver linings to the dark cloud? Maybe he is studying the playbook more? Maybe he is learning the importance of taking care of his body better? Sometimes we learn more from overcoming obsticles than from the easy path.

I would rather he be as recovered as much as possible before going at it again. No reason to risk re-injury now when he cannot score any TD's and help the team to a WIN as opposed to when the season starts.

Those who really need the practice time now are the 'bubble' players to show their worth to the team. I can well imagine them playing/practicing hurt now.

I am sure there are many 'disturbing' news that we never hear about until much later (if at all) - players who can't grasp the playbook (Donald Hayes), players who are on a path to self-distruction (alchohol, gambling, etc), and so on. So I don't get too worked up over a tweaked hammy the first week into TC. It seemed he had a good mini-camp and rookie camp this Spring. I am happy to have all the rookie's contracts done and the players in camp (minus Deon). But then again - I am a 'half-glass is full' kind of guy. Unless it is a REALLY good beer then it is half empty and I try to savor every last drop!

Greetings to all from Denmark - land of Hans Christian Andersen.

 

[SoonerPatriot]

That was insinuated by JR4, not you.

The whole October thing isn't what matters, it's the unfounded negativity. At that point, negotiations were at the same point as the year before, and I'm sure the year before that. I saw it as a Borges move - trying to find something to be negative about.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I think you tend to take anything that isn't overwhelmingly positive as something that is overwhelmingly negative.

 

[spacecrime]

I love the "we're doomed" line

Yeah, me too. It kinds of sums everything up, not only the pre-season panic, but the belief that every departed player was vital and no new player will amount to anything. As you (or someone) said, when after Givens first year, no one figured him to even make the team. When he left he was indespensible. It happens every year. This year,and again, our new players will not amount to much and none of them can replace our departed vets. We are doomed.