If we trade down from 3?

[slifersd]

If we trade down, it's to select more top shelf talent, even if it's not at the tippest of the tippy top there's usually hits all the way down the first round and a lot of those guys can help you win games. Trading down will be for the purpose of getting more picks and drafting more bodies. This has advantages.

In fact I'd venture to say that as shallow as our rosster is, we need, most of all, a broad infusion of talent rather than a couple peak guys. We need energetic young depth and we need help in a lot of different places, more than can easily be addressed by 1-2 guys.

There's very few teams that can actually use the quarterback to cover ALL their flaws. the Bengals and Chargers certainly tried, and their primo quarterbacks are getting murdered and now struggling with injuries only a few years later.

to say nothing of what happened to the Jets when they tried to cover their considerable roster issues with Aaron Rodgers.

Generally it's better to ACTUALLY ADDRESS YOUR ISSUES rather than trying to sweep them under the rug and distract everyone with a shiny new toy instead.

I'd rather get a second round talent at QB if it means that we also get the help we need in the trenches on both ends of the ball, and also help at linebacker which is a perennial need for every team ever.

If the goal is to make this year look better, then certainly a trade down to acquire more pieces is the play. But if you want to build a long term contender, you need that top shelf QB. Other than SF, every contender in the league has an MVP level QB. You can't compete against that with a Brock Purdy, unless the rest of your roster is nothing but pro bowlers and all pros. Even if we are optimistic about the Wolf regime, it is hard to fathom they are going to be SF level at drafting and developing. A great QB doesn't cover up all your issues, but it does cover up a lot of them, just look at what Mahomes did with KC and what Brady did when he was here.

The holes on the roster should've been filled with FA, but the FO decided to sit on their cans and not add anything there. It is a very risky strategy to build a roster via draft only, especially when u have the cap space to add some pieces in FA.

 

[Patriot Missile]

From what I have read - rumors and speculation, not much else to go on - Jefferson was not happy when the Vikings did not re-sign Kirk Cousins. If that is true - that he wants a proven starter at QB - then my question to those who want him, is why would he want to move to the Patriots?

Just because the Vikings did not meet expectations in 2023, that doesn't mean they are now in a full tear down, rebuilding mode. Minnesota probably feels like they are close, just a good QB away from the playoffs and more. Assuming that is the case, they are going to want to keep Jefferson, and again attempt to negotiate an extension.

Vikings not planning to trade Justin Jefferson: Sources

Jefferson, 24, only played 10 games last season dealing with a hamstring injury. He hauled in 68 receptions for 1,074 yards and five TDs.

theathletic.com

Following the season, more unsubstantiated rumors surfaced regarding the Vikings potentially trading Jefferson. Adofo-Mensah said in Indianapolis at the NFL combine: “A lot of the stuff that I hear is completely false. (Trading Jefferson) is not something that has once crossed my mind.” With Cousins’s departure, the idea of trading Jefferson has once again surfaced. Minnesota has no plans to move its best player.​

It’s ok. We’ll get him next year. And now we got his friend KJ Osborn to help persuade him along with the star QB we draft. And of course Judon……

 

[AQPE]

Yes but having watched these 2 specific qbs, I do not believe either will be franchise qbs

Well beauty is in the eye of the beholder. This is in the context of your previous posts declaring Maye to be the best prospect for the Pats. I actually agree with you on that, of the "top 4" he's the one I most hope for, but will not be crestfallen at all if it winds up being any of the other 3 (Williams, Daniels, and McCarthy).

So here are some numbers on the three. For me Maye is superior to the other two, but I don't see the difference as being as significant as it seems you do, especially comparing Ewers to Maye in completion percentage and yards per attempt and completion. I didn't show them here but Allar's numbers are quite a bit better than either Maye's or Ewers' for their first years. I expect Allar to improve as he gains more experience. I think Allar in the Big 10 and Evers at UT now going to the SEC will be playing against a higher level of competition than Maye did at UNC but I also think Mack Brown at UNC did not do a good enough job surrounding Maye with talent at the same level that Ewers and Allar had:

• Maye:
- 22 years old
- 3 years at UNC, started all games for them in 2022 and all but their bowl game in 2023, total of 26 games
- UNC's record when he started was 17-9
- Completion percentage 64.9%, 8.4 yards/attempt, 13.0 yards/completion
- 63 TDs passing, 16 INTs.
- 4.0 yards/rushing attempt, 16 TDs

• Ewers:
- 21 years old
- 2 years at UT, started all games for them in 2022 and 2023, total of 22 games
- UT's record when he started was 16-6
- Completion percentage 64.3%, 8.2 yards/attempt, 12.74 yards/completion
- 37 TDs passing, 12 INTs.
- 0.3 yards/rushing attempt, 6 TDs

• Allar:
- 20 years old
- 2 years at PSU, started all games for them in 2023, total of 12 games
- PSU's record when he started was 10-2
- Completion percentage 61%, 6.6 yards/attempt, 10.8 yards/completion
- 27 TDs passing, 1 INTs.
- 2.6 yards/rushing attempt, 5 TDs

Reiterating from my original point in this part of this thread, I think it is way too early to dismiss next year's QB class or the one in two years as "going to suck" which is what I responded to. They may not be as good as we think this year's class could be (with 6 QBs looking like they are legit first or second round picks), but to me that is irrelevant in regard to what I would like to see the Patriots do in this year's draft. I want them to take a chance that one of the available QBs at #3 can be the leader and performer they need to get to a championship level, but if they choose to trade back or go in a different direction I am going to "invest" optimism in the current regime, and wait for their performance to convince me that my optimism is not merited.

 

[MahomestoKelce]

I think there's an extreme risk of Justin Jefferson being an extremely unhappy camper if he has no one better than Brissett to throw to him. Brissett doesn't have the best awareness, he tends to have 1-2 guys he hyperfocuses on, if Jefferson isn't one of them... well, Brissett is a good chemistry guy but he managed to rub TY Hilton the wrong way in Indy by getting more comfortable with the guys who were actually on the field, like Greg Doyle or Zach Pascal, than he was with Hilton. Hilton started missing games with injury and Brissett started ignoring him in favor of guys who were there the whole time. It's one of his more interesting flaws.

Frankly I'd rather avoid big name talent and go for some good second rank wideouts that aren't household names. Nothing is more overpriced than a household name.

But then having said that, I'd have never traded for Randy Moss and THAt was a fuggin home run so take this with the requisite sodium chaser.

Um....what was one of the big reasons it was a home run though?

 

[Simpelton]

Um....what was one of the big reasons it was a home run though?

mind rephrasing the question? I'm not sure I get what you're trying to say.

 

[stardawg]

Take Maye and do NOT trade down from 3. The BS about Maye is phony crap being put out there by teams that hope he will slide to, like the Giants and Vikings. It's FAKE news to quote POTUS45. Maye is a great qb prospect and could be the best of the top 3.
Do not pass on either Daniels either, whoever makes it to 3.

Finding decades long franchise QBs is hard. Shoot your shot Pats.

You're right, if you like Maye or Daniels and he's available at #3 you got to take the shot. Otherwise why are you even in the game? The only way you trade down is if you don't like the pick. Franchise qbs are rare and the #3 pick is (hopefully) hard to come by. Even then, there are no guarantees.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Chicago takes caleb at number 1.
Washington takes either maye or Daniels at number 2.
Sitting there at number 3 is either maye or Daniels and Harrison! Harrison is the best player in this draft.

New England needs to take Harrison! I know we have a dumpster fire at the qb position, but Harrison is way too good to pass up!

To trade down from number three, we need a kings random to pass on the best player in the draft.

This draft has 3 blue chip prospects. Harrison, nabors, and caleb. It has about 20 red chip players and then a ton of decent players.

Option 1 - take Harrison
Option 2 - trade down if we offered more than three first round draft picks

 

[MahomestoKelce]

mind rephrasing the question? I'm not sure I get what you're trying to say.

Poster said Moss signing was a home run.

Who was the QB?

Is Moss getting 23 TD's with Cassell?

 

[MahomestoKelce]

Chicago takes caleb at number 1.
Washington takes either maye or Daniels at number 2.
Sitting there at number 3 is either maye or Daniels and Harrison! Harrison is the best player in this draft.

New England needs to take Harrison! I know we have a dumpster fire at the qb position, but Harrison is way too good to pass up!

To trade down from number three, we need a kings random to pass on the best player in the draft.

This draft has 3 blue chip prospects. Harrison, nabors, and caleb. It has about 20 red chip players and then a ton of decent players.

Option 1 - take Harrison
Option 2 - trade down if we offered more than three first round draft picks

I disagree completely.

MHJ isn't needed to win a SB. An elite QB is. KC didn't need a Jefferson or even a Diggs to win a SB last or this year. NE didn't need one most years either.

Patriots are already in a spot to grab an elite QB for free. You risk having to spend extra assets for a trade up for likely a lesser QB down the road.

There's no future class like this. Everyone keeps mentioning 1st oa picks who busted/are currently not elite. And mentioning later round picks who did work out. The list of QB's drafted later who didn't work out is much larger.

Yeah, maybe you get a Winston. But what if you get a Burrow?

 

[The Gr8est]

I disagree completely.

MHJ isn't needed to win a SB. An elite QB is. KC didn't need a Jefferson or even a Diggs to win a SB last or this year. NE didn't need one most years either.

Patriots are already in a spot to grab an elite QB for free. You risk having to spend extra assets for a trade up for likely a lesser QB down the road.

There's no future class like this. Everyone keeps mentioning 1st oa picks who busted/are currently not elite. And mentioning later round picks who did work out. The list of QB's drafted later who didn't work out is much larger.

Yeah, maybe you get a Winston. But what if you get a Burrow?

So you are saying there is an elite QB available for the Pats to take?

Is that a given?

 

[PatsFan2]

Chicago takes caleb at number 1.
Washington takes either maye or Daniels at number 2.
Sitting there at number 3 is either maye or Daniels and Harrison! Harrison is the best player in this draft.

New England needs to take Harrison! I know we have a dumpster fire at the qb position, but Harrison is way too good to pass up!

To trade down from number three, we need a kings random to pass on the best player in the draft.

This draft has 3 blue chip prospects. Harrison, nabors, and caleb. It has about 20 red chip players and then a ton of decent players.

Option 1 - take Harrison
Option 2 - trade down if we offered more than three first round draft picks

I have gone back and forth with that and came to this conclusion IF this Draft wasn't so Stacked with WR's I would agree.

 

[MahomestoKelce]

So you are saying there is an elite QB available for the Pats to take?

Is that a given?

No.

Nothing is a given in life except taxes, death, and the Bills never winning a SB.

In all seriousness, I see too many examples of teams with ok QB's & great receivers not winning vs the opposite.

It would be easier to recover from not taking MHJ, and him becoming the next Moss. Compared to not taking Maye/Daniels, and them becoming great QB's.

 

[PatsFan2]

So you are saying there is an elite QB available for the Pats to take?

Is that a given?

It's not a given but at least we have a chance I am coming back to the QB @ 3 club let's stop kidding ourselves.

 

[MahomestoKelce]

I have gone back and forth with that and came to this conclusion IF this Draft wasn't so Stacked with WR's I would agree.

Even if it wasn't, I think if you potentially get a good enough QB, you don't need an elite receiver.

How often does a receiver carry a team to a near/winning SB? People will say Fitzgerald. Yet, he had Warner. Who had two MVP's.

 

[Simpelton]

Poster said Moss signing was a home run.

Who was the QB?

Is Moss getting 23 TD's with Cassell?

Ahh. I actually agree with that to a point. bottom line I disagree that you NEED a first round quarterback. i'd rather have a guy who can play the role and beef up the roster in other areas. I'm a big believer in the ground game. A good ground game, a good line, and a decent QB is how I prefer to set things up if I have everything my own way. basically the 49ers current model that's making a 7th rounder look like literal God..

 

[Love The Drake]

 

[40yrpatsfan]

All options in front of us involve taking a qb with our first pick. The only questions are if we trade down, and how far.

 

[captain stone]

Until recently I was all in on a QB at 3 (especially Daniels) , however the more I read about trading down and getting 3 or 4 first round picks etc between 2024/2025 , I can see the point of addressing several positions but then.......who is the QB ?

Bo Nix.

 

[The Gr8est]

View attachment 57133

Good!

Teams SHOULD be thinking the Pats don’t want to trade down.

No bargain basement offers.

 

[captain stone]

Plan A: Trade from 3 to 5, draft Maye

Plan B: Stay at 3, draft Maye

Plan C: If Maye’s already gone, trade down MULTIPLE times for MULTIPLE Day 1/2 picks BOTH this year AND next year, then draft Bo Nix and have him sit this season while Brisket runs an offense with which he is already familiar, and with an improved roster because of the extra draft picks so that when Nix is ready in 2025 he can hit the ground running…