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If it was the 2004 draft again

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by khayos, Dec 20, 2007.

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  1. khayos

    khayos In the Starting Line-Up

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    Would you do anything different than choosing Wilfork over Rams RB Steven Jackson? The latter has been fun to watch tonight so far :)
     
  2. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    NO..............:)
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2007
  3. Patriotic Fervor

    Patriotic Fervor Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    The former is All-Pro....:D
     
  4. Metaphors

    Metaphors In the Starting Line-Up

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    Not only that, he has allowed the Pats to keep the base defense that Belichick prefers. Everything (literally) revolves around that NT position. It is just a matter of time before Wilfork is extended since I believe Belichick knows that Wilfork is a building block for success for the next 5+ years.

    Bottom line, Wilfork affects the game in ways that are difficult or even impossible to see with the untrained (meaning us) eye.
     
  5. letekro

    letekro In the Starting Line-Up

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    Hellz No!!! Wilfork is a much rarer athlete than Stephen Jackson.
     
  6. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I was, and continue to be, a fan of Jackson. I'll still take Wilfork over him. A 3-4 nose tackle that can play at Wilfork's level is a huge cog in the machine.
     
  7. unoriginal

    unoriginal In the Starting Line-Up

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    I'd trade the whole rest of that draft for Stephen Jackson, Mike Ditka-style.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2007
  8. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I dont think its even a case of comparing the 2 players side by side. I think its a case of the fit in our system.
    If you look at our roster and specifically the starting lineup, its hard to argue we are not 'good' at every position on the field. I just do not see the liability.

    We have the best QB in the NFL. EVER.
    Wr and TE are strengths.
    The OL is a strength.
    RB has a first round pick who has done everything asked of him (except to those asking for him to take the ball out of Bradys hands)
    The DL is the best in the NFL.
    The LBs as a group are at the least, among the best in the NFL.
    The secondary is a strength without a single player that could be considered a liability.

    Where this applies to Wilfork vs Jackson, IMO, is that DL, and particularly NT ina 2gap 3-4 system is a spot where you are very exposed in you do have a liability, and there are not a ton of guys who can play that position and not be a liability.
    Having the best, or least say one of the top 3 NTs in the NFL (especially considering that we have the best DEs as well) is MUCH, MUCH more important to the success of this team than having the best, or one of the top 3 best RBs in the NFL.

    Basically, given our system, and roster, if Vince Wilfork turned out to be the best NT in NFL history and Steven Jackson turned out to be the best RB in NFL history, we shouldhave picked Vince.
     
  9. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress In the Starting Line-Up

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    In the last 5 years only TWO great NTs have emerged from the college ranks: Wilfork and Haloti Ngata. The sine qua non of every NFL defense is stopping the run. The true NT almost singlehandedly accomplishes that. He makes stars out of mediocre ILB/MLBs (Bart Scott, M.Peterson), who, free of interference, accelerate to the ball and accumulate tackles and forced fumbles. He makes stars out decent passrushers (S. Philips), because the opposition is frequently in long yardage situations. He makes stars out of OK Cbs (Cromartie) and safeties (polamalu), who intercept passes forced by the pass rushing of OK pass rushers (Philips, J.Harrison, J. Porter) made more effective by the run stopping prowess of the great NT (J. Williams, C. Hampton). IMO Great NTs are as valuable to team defense as an elite crash end or a #1 cb.

    Rbs like Steven Jackson are a dime a dozen. A couple of them come out of the draft every year. We have one on our team already.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2007
  10. Aldogg

    Aldogg Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    As much as I liked Jackson coming out, we need Wilfork for this defense to work, and at the time Jackson was a luxury with us trading for Dillon a few weeks before the draft and we needed a nose tackle of the future.
     
  11. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    As fans we often become too enamored with the the "style" not the substance. The fact remains proven that you can find decent RBs on other among people's Practise Squads, UDFA'S, FA's. Just look at Priest Holmes, Willie Parker, the kid from GB, Justin Vargas, etc, etc, ETC!

    You also have to look at the fact that given the current rules the running game in the NFL is becoming less and less important and every year goes by. Just like we have seen the extinctiion of the FB postiion over the past decade, we have seen the running game become less of a factor in the overall offensive importance all over the NFL.

    That's not to say you don't need a runninng game to succeed, you just don't need a "great" running game to win superbowls. We've done it in 2001 and 2003 and we will do it again in 2007. You don't have to be great, just effecient.

    BOTTOM LINE: A great NT is one of the rarest creatures to find for NFL teams, RBs can be found all over the place. It isn't glamorous, not exciting for fans when your team keeps drafting the Seymours, Warrens, Wilfolks, Mankins of the world, while other teams draft the glamor boys like the David Terrells and Eli Mannings. However those dull draft days often lead to VERY HAPPY Sundays in the fall
     
  12. stinkypete

    stinkypete In the Starting Line-Up

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    I would take Vince Wilfork over any other player from the 2004 draft, hands down. Elite nose tackles are hard to come by. No DT taken since 2004 can hold a candle to Wilfork's game.
     
  13. Seels

    Seels On the Game Day Roster

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    If you're asking this question you probably don't understand how vital Wilfork is to the team. After Brady, and MAYBE Moss Wilfork is next (this may be Seymour if he was at the level he was playing at 2 years ago).

    Look at it this way, SJax is unquestionably an elite talent, but how many running backs are as good or better than him? I'd say probably 6, Ronnie Brown Brown LT AD Westbrook Gore and Addai. Who is as good or better than Wilfork? Williams on San Diego and Ngata, and that's probably where that ends. Notice, the teams with elite NT's have great defenses (Baltimore still has an elite defense, their offense is just a joke), whereas teams that have elite running backs can be just kind of 'eh' on offense.

    The list of players I would have (that we don't already have) over Wilfork at this point in time is probably enough to count on one hand.
     
  14. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I like Jackson as much as the next guy but you're not suggesting taking my Vince away from me are you ? NO WAY.
     
  15. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Pro Bowl Player

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    Aside from the first round (and the Corey Dillon trade), the Patriots 2004 NFL draft was a disaster.
     
  16. sieglo

    sieglo In the Starting Line-Up

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    Wilfork fvcking rulez.
     
  17. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    With 100% hindsight and at the time, I would have taken Wilfork instead of anyone in that draft. I wanted us to use our second 1st to trade up for Wilfork who I though might be picked as early as #5. Instead Washington picked Sean Taylor.

    I don't know hard we discussed moving up to pick Jackson, after getting Wilfork, but it didn't get done, and we ended up with Watson
     
  18. RayClay

    RayClay Pro Bowl Player

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    No freakin way. Talk about a godsend of a pick.
     
  19. ClevTrev

    ClevTrev Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    No! Wilfork has proven his value and is a Patriot. My guess is that he'll be one to re-sign with the team, as he values the chemistry and goals of New England.
     
  20. PatsfanGlo

    PatsfanGlo On the Game Day Roster

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    Wilfolk in a heartbeat. Not even a contest.
     
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