PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Idle thoughts - the "patience" edition


Status
Not open for further replies.
Just as FYI, the production of Cooks in this market is closer to Gilmore's numbers than $8m. There is talk of guys like Benjamin and Matthews at the Bills getting $10m. I'm expecting Cooks to get $10-11m.

It's the new market.
That's if he was a FA next season. He's not. He's in his 5th year of his rookie contract and entitle to something like $8.5MM next season. Now the Pats might look to work out an extension with him before 2o19, but they don't HAVE to.
 
I don't think BB can tell Josh or Matt "someone is off limits"if they are moving to a better job, NOR do I think he'd do it if he could. Such a meeting, as Mayo said, is a courtesy to someone you respected.
Who is moving to a better job?
He didn’t call it a courtesy. I see it as “this is a guy I’d like to hire can you share him” “ no?, ok”

That one is simple. There are a couple of reasons. One is perhaps they have a personal relationship with Josh or Matt that they want to continue. But more importantly, perhaps they want to create their OWN identity outside of the Pats. Bellichick's shadow is omnipresent within the Pats, and maybe there is a part of some of these guys that wants to get from under that looming presence. OR perhaps they don't.
They wouldn’t be in NE if they thought working for B.B. was a negative. It wasn’t fur jm or mp

Time will tell, Andy. I hold out the slim hope that Josh might be willing to wait with the strategy that he can hope that the Titan job will open next year (and I expect it will), and plan B would be to wait until Bill retires. Probably just a fantasy on my part, but I have an active fantasy side. ;)
Josh to colts ( he would be crazy to pass up a job with a good QB hoping a playoff team fired their cia h next year so he can take a job with a shaky QBs.

Matty P to Detroit.

Flores DC
OShea. OC

I don’t see anyone else on the staff that they would take as coordinators with the long shot exception of Boyer.
 
I am going to dispute the “not dominant” thing. And especially the “not like Steelers offense” part. The steeler one first

The patriots scored more points 458-406
The patriots had more yards. 6307-6047
The patriots had more pass yards 4418-4380
The patriots had more rushing yards 1889-1667 (and a better ypc 4.2-3.8)
The patriots had more 1st downs 389-348
The patriots had a higher yd per play 5.9-5.8
The patriots had fewer turnovers 12-20
The patriots scored more offensive TDs 48-41

I can’t see any area the Steelers were better in this year than the patriots on offense.

I'd like to add that the Pats did all of that against better opponents.
 
I think it's rather disingenuous of you to call Henry a "plodding Clydesdale". Henry is a younger version of Legerette Blount who also happens to be a better pass catcher than Blount. In his short career, Henry is averaging better than 4.3 YPC with a 75 Yrd TD run this year.

The issue I saw with the Titans Offense was that they gave up too easily on running with Henry. Not having a complimentary back certainly hurt them.
The game has evolved. The Blounts and Henrys have roles but these slow to accelerate, one dimensional big boys limit their teams' options when they are on the field.
YPC is not a stat that impresses all that much...consider Mike Gillislee has averaged 4.8 yards in his career and is an after thought on a team the prescribes to modern offensive play calling.
 
Why would O’Shea pass up pats OC job to follow mcd?
Why would Flores pass up pats dc to follow either?

I am not talking about OShea or Flores. I have been saying for weeks now that they will be the next ones up. But people below them like Schuplinski, Steve Belichick, Nick Caley, Brendan Daly & co. Hell even Joe Judge has apparently an expiring contract. Maybe he wants to move up in the food chain and not be a career ST guy.

It is about the ones that are doing a lot of the grunt work with little recognition so far. Josh and MP taking a couple lower level staffers with them will be felt. Point is this is not just two individuals leaving but multiple people all along the organizational ladder.
 
Last edited:
Hasn’t B.B. and his coordinators always have an understanding that if they get a hc job they won’t raid the staff?

Don't they have contracts?
 
2. Defense

a. General thoughts - Like the premise of this post the defense got better once they saw how they were going to be attacked. Mariotta had 37 yds rushing but most came very early or in garbage time. In their TD drive, Chung busted and let Walker free for a 40+ yd gain to get them started. Marriotta also ran for a first down that drive, but it never happened again until their last drive.

In between the Pat D was pretty scary. Patricia used all his spare parts to throttle the Titan's run game and to scheme pass rushes that netted us 8 sacks from the likes of MFlowers, TFlowers, Wise, Francois, Butler and Grissom. None of these guys are going to send shivers down a DC's spine, but as a group they are coming on, and Partricia needs to take a SERIOUS bow.

The negative is the continued lack of turnovers created by the defense. Not having any was OK for tonight, but I think they will be needed going forward. Just something to think about.

b. Front Seven - I was worried a bit about the capabilities of the Titan run game. Those worries mostly dissipated early on when Henry tried to bounce it outside and James Harrison not only set the edge like a rock, he made the tackle. Butler, Guy, Brown, and Francois completely sealed off the middle all game. Their play was really strong.

Y'know, I'm really liking the play of MFlowers as that outside LB on a more full time basis. His path might end up being a lot like Ninko's. He set the edge pretty well. He had some success as a pass rusher, and was REALLY effective when he acted like a spy in certain rush packages. What a useful guy to get for a 7th round pick. He has great length and speed. Skills the LB corps badly needed.

KVN added some pressure had helped others get some sacks. He had some good fits in the run game and like Hogan and White knocked some rust off.

Roberts was conspicuous mostly because he DIDN'T leave any gaps open on the run and while he didn't get a whole lot of individual tackles he was where he was supposed to be most of the time . Good game for him.

This sub unit really had a great night. And I can't say this enough, once again the sum was greater than the individual parts

c Secondary - Stephon Gilmore pitched a shut out tonight. It might not have been the greatest WR group the Pats have seen this year, but he was really really good last night. I'll be interested in seeing the review thread this week to see how much zone vs man we played. But the fact is that most of the Titan yardage came on that 95 yd drive and the one that ended the game in total garbage time.

The only real negative was JJones injury on a play where Marriotta should have been sacked, and at the end of a meaningless drive.

Well not the ONLY negative. The good news is that Malcolm Butler is still competitive as hell and seems to be working hard at it, but too often he seems to be losing. I don't blame him for the first TD. He was in good position, and when I watch the replay closely, you can't help notice that his well timed swipe at the ball came a lot closer to breaking up the play than I originally thought. However there were a number of other plays where he got beat.

He's still a starting CB in this league, but NO ONE is going to give this kid elite money to be their CB. I don't think that after this season he would rate even Logan Ryan money at this point. That being said, I'd love to have him back, IF he and his agent regain their sanity once he tests the market. Because that is what Bill will do. He WILL make him an offer and then let Butler see if he can do a lot better, if he doesn't, then I wouldn't be surprised to see himcome back on a deal that would guarantee $6MM/yr and have reasonable incentives to get to $8MM, and more if he can get back to that probowl level of last season.

Nice to have Rowe hack. I think we have him under contract next season, don't we? His size allows a lot of flexibility when we need to cover some bigger WR's....like next week.

3. ST's - excellent as usual....EXCEPT for a couple of holding penalties on punts that were obviously going to be fair caught, and of course the stupid late head butt.

The Pats have attempted 3 FG attempts from beyond 50yds during the playoffs at Gillette since 2001. Some ass in the game day thread was pissed when Gotskowski barely missed the 53 yard. It looked good from the start, but I think the wind got it at the end. But to that ass, there is a REASON there have been only 3 attempted FG's during that time. It's January. It's usually very cold and windy, and 53 yd FG are NOT automatic. :rolleyes;

KO coverage against a very dangerous guy, were very good, with all but one of the 5 KO returns stopped short of the 25.


General thoughts -

a. Jim Nance to go directly to the Masters and stay there. He spent most of night just pissing me off. Of course he says a lot of nice things about the Pats. How could he not, given their successes? But every chance he gets, he slips a dagger in their backs, with off hand, uninformed remarks about ref's calls, etc

His remark about the one second left at the end of the first half was simply unprofessional, to the point where Romo (NOT Nance) had to make a retraction because of the bad impression they left. The fact was that the Titan player DID jump into the neutral zone, clearly. But he also got back before the snap. I always thought that you COULD jump back if the ball wasn;t snapped, but so often, I see the flag just for entering it. They should NEVER had questioned the call they way they did.

They also didn't reinforce the holding call on Gronk when he was clearly mugged on the play. They left it open as if to imply it was another questionable call that went the Pats way.

Chriss Wessling of the Around the league podcast on NFL.com tweated that they conveniently ignored the blatant hold on Cooks that caused the near miss, but constantly harped on the ticky tack OPI on Decker as being a key play, which as Florio pointed out on PFT, was ALSO a legit call. Well I'm glad at least SOMEONE was watching the game. :rolleyes:

b. Malarkey is an ass that doesn't deserve to be the HC of the Titans. His half time comments complaining about the refs to the sideline girl proved it. If Josh is smart he'd avoid Irsay and the Colts job, and wait another year because this jackass will be gone in a year for sure. Time will prove that the win against KC might prove more costly than the loss.

c. I'm less worried about the fact the we are likely to lose both our coordinators in 1-3 weeks, than about the potential current assistants that they may take with them. So we aren't going to lose 2 guys from our staff, it will probably be 4-6. :eek:

d. I caught a bit of the Eagles game too and all the Nick Foles hoopla from this past week. It made be think about all the JG hoopla as well, as all the Deshawn Watson hype. In case you forgot in his 2nd year, Nick Foles threw for 27 TD's 2 picks and almost 3000 yds in just 10 games. He looked all the world like a franchise QB. Well he's had 4 more seasons after that, 3 as predominately a back up.

I just mention this as a potential cautionary tale given the over hype on Watson and JG. Derrick Carr is another example of a young QB who shines for a year and them regresses. It is NEVER a straight line progress for QB's. It wasn't for Brady either. It is HARD to maintain a level of excellence. It makes what Brady has accomplished even more remarkable. The longer you play the more defenses know HOW to play you, and what you like, and what your tendencies are. How you are able to adjust to those adjustments will determine whether you are elite or not. You can HOPE, but you can't know.

We know that JG and Watson have the talent to be great QB's, but for God's sake, before the send them to the HOF, let's see them do it for 4 or 5 years and absorb all the adjustments instead of anointing them after just a few good games. QB, at the NFL level might be the hardest single job in sports. You can't judge greatness after such a short sample size.

e. My mind is rooting for the Jags. Their defense would present some unique problems but I can't see their offense scoring more than 16 and THAT wouldn't be enough. My heart wants the Steelers. They have the best offensive talent in the league, but on the road, it isn't happening for Ben, and they still can't stop our offense. It will be great to break to get a chance to their hearts.... AGAIN. ;)

OK this is nuts. I'd 4;30 am and this ends now. I'm an old man and I have to go pee. ;)

Please add your commentary it is important.
Great job Ken. I agree with the Cooks comments. During the Felger halftime show, I didn't hear anything positive about the Pats, only whining about Cooks. It was so bad the post game started out the same way so I abandoned them totally. Also you are the only one that mentioned the interference on that play. The DB snagged him just enough to cost a step or he would have run under it. Agree on Marquis Flowers. Why do people waste their breath criticizing Belichick the G. One of the things I think is great about him is how he builds and constructs a team. Turns out KVN is an important contributor, and the DL makeup is amazing.
 
That's quite a list. Bit of a stretch on one or two of them but generally makes a good point.
Yeah. White, as an undersized but not particularly flashy receiving type back as a 4th rounder is hardly overlooked.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


2024 Patriots Draft Picks – FULL LIST
So Far, Patriots Wolf Playing It Smart Through Five Rounds
Wolf, Patriots Target Chemistry After Adding WR Baker
TRANSCRIPT: Patriots WR Javon Baker Conference Call
TRANSCRIPT: Layden Robinson Conference Call
MORSE: Did Rookie De-Facto GM Eliot Wolf Drop the Ball? – Players I Like On Day 3
MORSE: Patriots Day 2 Draft Opinions
Patriots Wallace “Extremely Confident” He Can Be Team’s Left Tackle
It’s Already Maye Day For The Patriots
TRANSCRIPT: Patriots OL Caedan Wallace Press Conference
Back
Top