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Idle thoughts- the on to AZ edition...and few roster comments.


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patfanken

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This is always a very interesting and provocative day. Lots of interesting decisions and lots of comments ON those decisions...by us. Bill on the other hand, the guy who actually worked with these guys and watched on tape for about 2 months, and has been evaluating NFL players for about 40 years, well, he WON'T be making many comments on these decisions and won't be speculating at ALL. ;)

But now it's finally for real, and for obvious reasons, the league hasn't done us any favors. First they take away our #1 draft pick, then our best player, and schedule us to open against a superbowl favorite.....on the road. But who cares. Now as fans we can start to talk football, strategies, x's and O's and personnel groupings. FINALLY we get to the fun stuff (at least for me)

The roster is what it is, and will likely change many times before we get to February. So let's get started and break down what we can expect from the Cardinals, and what we can do to pull a big upset..
DISCLAIMER - My discussions will be only on the broadest terms, and won't involve any X's and O's since I don't have the ability to draw them on my computer. Sorry about that limitation.

1. The Pats offense vs the Cardinal D.

AZ has one of the best secondaries in the league. They have 2 good corners who can play press or zone, and an impact slot corner (Mathieu), who is this generation's Troy Palamalou. An impact secondary guy that you have to know where he is at all times. They also rush the passer well, and IIRC are in the top 5 in the league in how often they blitz.

That is not a bad situation for AZ when you are playing team who is starting a QB who has never started an NFL game before, and is playing on the road. :eek: It also doesn't help that he hasn't had a lot live work with his receivers to date. But it is what it is. The question is how to the Pats level the playing field.

a. It will come as no surprise when the Pats come out with 2 TE's as it's basic formation. But don't be surprised when you see those VERY big TE's split out more than you think. I think what Josh is going to attempt to do is show AZ formations and motions that will create either size or speed mis-matches that will force AZ to play a balanced defense and limit their blitzing.

b. We are going to run the damned football. Another not too surprising strategy. But running and then throwing play action passes is ANOTHER way to keep defenses from trying overload blitzes and dictating the tempo of the game.

c. Even though we want to slow the game down with a running attack, I REALLY hope Josh doesn't abandon the no huddle offense. Remember no huddle does NOT necessarily mean a hurry up offense. By going no huddle and spending a lot of time at the LOS before the snap, you give Jimmy the time he needs to see what the Cardinals are trying to do to him. I believe Bill will have him prepared for MOST of what they do.

The no-huddle does a couple of things. It keeps the Cardinal's personnel on the field and limits their substitutions. It allows JG to control the tempo of the game. He can slow it down or speed it up at will. Whatever helps get him in that 2 minute drill rhythm that he seems to like. No huddle always puts the pressure on the D to be reactive rather than pro-active.

And whenever the Cardinal D looks like they are getting comfortable with the pace of the Pats offense, change it. Don't be afraid to use the hurry up offense. They won't be expecting it.

d. Make this Bennett's break out game. Let him be the receiver when both are "inline" TE's. You know that are going to want to shut down Gronk. So let them assign manpower to cover him, and throw it to the guy who has the single coverage.

e. Finally don't be afraid to air it out once in a while. It will be the last thing they expect. Also I'd like to see LGB get a few looks as a receiver this year. We've were too predictable when he was in there the last few years.

3 The Pats Defense vs the Cardinal offense.

This is a team that has very good skill players. They have top notch receivers and good RB's and a very experienced and successful QB. The Pats have to attack them where they aren't so good and take advantages of their weaknesses.

a. As you probably have noticed the Pats are blitzing more this year that we've seen them in the past. Even when they only rush 4, they are working games (Stems) between the rushers a lot more than I've seen them. As good as Carson Palmer is, he is even LESS mobile and not even near as nifty in the pocket as Tom Brady. He's not a guy you have to worry about "containing". THAT is the achilles heel of the Cardinal offense that I believe will keep us in this game for 4 quarters. This is not a particularly good OL, at least not a tested one, (like ours). It will be our strength vs one of their weaknesses. We need to dominate the front 7.

b. To that end we need to see Patricia attack Palmer with the same vigor we can expect the Cardinals to attack Jimmy G. Believe me when I say the Cardinals will work ALL week to block up that A gap blitz by the LB. Between Collins and Mingo, the Pats got 5 (IIRC) QB hits by getting the LB in scott free. So I imagine it would behoove Matty to use that to open up some other alleys for some of his other high motor guys like AJohnson, Mingo, Flowers and Long. (or Sheard if he plays)

BTW- I have to say it sends shivers down my spine to mention 4 different legitimate rush guys, and then mention our best rusher as an afterthought. :eek: Most years we are trying to find just 2 and scheme everyone else.

c. There will be times and situations when we will need to play press coverage. But I think this week we need to be zone coverage as our base...but not a soft one. I think we will get the fast reads from the pressure we get on Palmer. This is a good game to go to the tape and work on reading patterns and jumping routes. Jimmy isn't going to be great in reading coverages. How could he be? But Palmer has never been great at it either. He's not bad, just not great.

d. So as a crib sheet. Control the run, pressure the passer, get off the field on 3rd down (at least 50% of the time) no big plays, and get 2 TO's Did I hit all the checkpoints? Have I stated the obvious? ;)

e. So watch for more blitzing, and movement from the DL from the Pats, and overall more aggression from the front 7 than we are used to seeing. But watch us be a bit more careful on the back end.

4. Special teams. Special teams can easily be the difference in this game, which I expect to be tight into the 4th quarter. I'd like to think we have an advantage here, but I don't know AZ that well to state it as a fact. Don't be shocked if the game turns here.

5. Coaching - Bruce Ariens is a very good HC. I don't know his OC or DC, but this isn't a game where Bill and his staff can simply go in an out coach his opponent. They WILL be prepared for what they expect to see. I'm hoping Josh/MattyP will come up with a few things that they aren't expecting.

6. Some Roster comments....and I'll try to be brief, since I'm falling asleep at the keyboard.

a. You just have to look at the roster to see how important 2 TE's are going to be for this team. Keeping 4 TE's and just 4 WR's (2 of whom we don't know will even play the 11th) is telling. Clearly our TE's will act as our big receivers and will play all over the field. For THIS team. at least as of now, the reality is that there really is no distinction between TE's and WR's They all will play all over the field.

b. LGB is going to get his 20-25 carries per game, and hopefully a couple of catches as well.

c. It will be interesting to see who will be the first 3rd down back off the bench, since we have 2 guys with the exact same skills....and are waiting for a 3rd.

d. It's been a while since they kept 10 offensive linemen. I don't see that holding up all season. BTW- 2 good cases can be made for bringing in the G from GB or JEvens from Seattle and hope either can be a Brian Waters clone. But I think they like the potential of what they have right now to spend the 4-5 Million it might cost to bring them in......IF they are even healthy.

e. Thrilled my binky James Johnson made the roster. Devastated that my Binky KGH didn't....and I think it would have been easy to find him a slot (especially with 10 OLmen) Though I will be placated if he gets to the PS.

f. Can't help but be surprise that NEITHER Dobson or Martin didn't make the roster. I thought the easy fix was to keep both or at least one and put Amendola on PUP for the first 6 games. Then I thought that they'd keep Lucien to have another 6'2 receiver....and then he was gone. I didn't want Harper or the other kid.

But like I said, one way to look at it is to forget about the distinction between WR's and TE's. Just think of them all being just receivers, and when you do that, you have plenty of size.

g. My thanks to Roger Goodell and his cadre of miscreants for giving the Pats 2 extra roster spots for the first 4 games. :rolleyes:

h. Feel free to add your own expectations and strategy speculations to mine....in fact I demand it. What I've written is merely a jumping off point of the discussion. It needs to be fleshed out. ;)

Goodnight. Happy final 53 day to all. Get a good night's sleep so we can start to speculate on the PS and watch the "final 53" begin to change. :D
 
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Is Mathieu really scheduled to play as he suffered some major injuries late last in last season? If he is, it will be interesting to see if he gets put on Gronk. Granted he's an excellent player, but the height differential will be difficult to overcome. Regardless, it should be an exciting matchup to see what happens.
 
AZ has one of the best secondaries in the league

This is kind of a fallacy. After Peterson and Mathieu I don't really see how it's one of the best secondries. Got DJ Swearinger at SS who is mediocre and the CB on the outside opposite of Peterson is a rookie. They were so thin at CB they just traded for Marcus Cooper who was terrible in 2014. Was so bad he didn't see the field last year.
 
Is Mathieu really scheduled to play as he suffered some major injuries late last in last season? If he is, it will be interesting to see if he gets put on Gronk. Granted he's an excellent player, but the height differential will be difficult to overcome. Regardless, it should be an exciting matchup to see what happens.

Yes Mathieu is scheduled to play and will probably cover Edelman. Though he is not 100% neither is Edelman so the injuries there should be a wash. Personally I would not look to Edelman much as it is a tough match up and I'd rather not test it.

This is kind of a fallacy. After Peterson and Mathieu I don't really see how it's one of the best secondries. Got DJ Swearinger at SS who is mediocre and the CB on the outside opposite of Peterson is a rookie. They were so thin at CB they just traded for Marcus Cooper who was terrible in 2014. Was so bad he didn't see the field last year.

While I agree their depth is lacking in the end top line talent matters more than depth as long as it is on the field. The 2 guys they have allow them to play creative with the rest of the secondary and play a lot of zone and 2v1 and force you into either throwing to one of their top guys or a very tight window on your 3rd best guy which is not ideal. I think they have a great secondary even without great depth as long as those 2 are out there.
 
The points of emphasis which the OP highlighted very well..

Defense needs to bring pressur against Palmer and force him into mistakes which he has recently been prone to doing.

Offense will feature a quick passing game anchored by at least TE in the majority of the possessions, and feature Foster in the running game who I think will play a big role in this game. Jimmy G will need to exploit the other CBs not named Patrick Peterson.

Special teams and turnovers may well decide this game. With the athletes in the front 7 and what should be improved special teams including the rookie Cyrus Jones, these are areas where NE will need to outwork Arizona.

A team with a more fearsome front 7 like Seattle or Carolina would concern me more for Jimmy G than the match ups that Arizona present.

In a game where the Pats are expected to lose, I think they'll come out with a statement of sorts.
 
Thnx patfanken for sharing your thoughts with us.

I am still worried about Oline.
10 guys on roster and Tree Jackosn on PUP is a lot. I think that if Tre will be healthy he would be in mix for starting RG. Lets not forget that Dante work with him predraft. But maybe Cooper, Mason, Kline injuries in preseason are reason for so many guys and they didnt want Karras to expose to other teams.
Fleming at OT scares me, i expected that Waddle will be our third OT on depth chart before Cannon, guess that now he is behind Fleming which is alarming. So if Vollmer doesnt come back this year, this Oline is in big trouble with OT if Solder or Cannon go down. And not forget that this forum want cut Cannon two weeks ago.
And i am still not happy with Andrews at center. Hope that he really put some pounds on him this offseason.
As for Kamu grugier hill. How he cant replace somone on ST and be part of LB/S on some plays. I guess he is not Freeney. Coach favorite, hardest worker etc..i am gonna puke.
 
Arians might be blowing smoke about Mathieu, no preseason snaps and ACL surgery last December?? He is saying he will play every snap.. stay tuned.
 
One think I notice is we don't bunch our receivers a lot. I would think this creates confusion for the opponent especially on 2pt attempts. Anyone have any insight why we don't do it more regularly like ****sburg?
 
I really appreciate your thoughts, pfk, as always - but I wish you would post them in an already existing thread We're on to Arizona by BobD. First out of respect to posters who already shared thoughts on the subject and second so that we all don't have to become schizophrenics jumping here and there, repeating our thoughts etc.

I would suggest to moderators to join these two threads.

-

Re. secondary it looked very exposed vs Houston without Mathieu, so lets se if he can bring his A game straight out of rehab. I guess he will be fine. Running game looked great with all RBs and it will be interesting to watch how we do against that - it will be good indication for the rest of the season.

The other thing from that game that was painfully obvious to local reporters is that they don't function as a team yet (Fitz was out as well). They also got a new injury to their secondary (forgot who it was).

So I see it as a contest of two hurting SB contenders trying hard to put their pieces together on time as much as they can due to injuries/suspensions etc.

If the trend from preseason games of creating turnovers and overwhelmingly winning the filed positions on punt/returns continues (and this could be a big part of the game with a lot of punting i guess) we have every chance of winning.

Hope Solder is ok to go. Hope JJ is on the team against return. Hope they put a trust in Foster (ahead of White) to pull a mini Lewis. Then it should be fun in the offense as well.
 
I really appreciate your thoughts, pfk, as always - but I wish you would post them in an already existing thread We're on to Arizona by BobD. First out of respect to posters who already shared thoughts on the subject and second so that we all don't have to become schizophrenics jumping here and there, repeating our thoughts etc.

I would suggest to moderators to join these two threads.

-

Re. secondary it looked very exposed vs Houston without Mathieu, so lets se if he can bring his A game straight out of rehab. I guess he will be fine. Running game looked great with all RBs and it will be interesting to watch how we do against that - it will be good indication for the rest of the season.

The other thing from that game that was painfully obvious to local reporters is that they don't function as a team yet (Fitz was out as well). They also got a new injury to their secondary (forgot who it was).

So I see it as a contest of two hurting SB contenders trying hard to put their pieces together on time as much as they can due to injuries/suspensions etc.

If the trend from preseason games of creating turnovers and overwhelmingly winning the filed positions on punt/returns continues (and this could be a big part of the game with a lot of punting i guess) we have every chance of winning.

Hope Solder is ok to go. Hope JJ is on the team against return. Hope they put a trust in Foster (ahead of White) to pull a mini Lewis. Then it should be fun in the offense as well.

He always does an Idle Thoughts thread. I'm sure Bob has no problem with the thread, and they're not redundant.
 
He always does an Idle Thoughts thread. I'm sure Bob has no problem with the thread, and they're not redundant.

I was not talking about redundancy at all and I do appreciate them after games etc.. because they create a place for peaceful in-depth reading, posting after the heat is over ...

Here I would really prefer we are all on the same page ...


p.s. sorry to cut the thread w this
 
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Defense needs to bring pressur against Palmer and force him into mistakes which he has recently been prone to doing.

Agreed although it would appear that he has always been prone to do this.

Palmer in 2015: Regular Season: Attempts 537, Completions 342, Interceptions 11, Fumbles 6
Palmer in 2015: Post Season: Attempts 81, Completions 48, Interceptions 6, Fumbles 3
Palmer Career: Attempts 5443, Completions 3413, Interceptions 166, Fumbles 65

Palmer 2015: Interceptions per Attempt = ~0.027
Palmer Career: Interceptions per Attempt = ~0.030

By Comparison, GOAT:

Brady in 2015: Regular Season: Attempts 624, Completions 402, Interceptions 7, Fumbles 6
Brady in 2015: Post Season: Attempts 98, Completions 55, Interceptions 2, Fumbles 0
Brady Career: Attempts 7792, Completions 4953, Interceptions 150, Fumbles 100

Brady 2015: Interceptions per Attempt = ~0.019
Brady Career: Interceptions per Attempt = ~0.012

Since QB fumbles also count as mistakes, Palmer is slightly better than Brady career wise:

Palmer: Fumbles per attempt = ~0.011
Brady: Fumbles per attempt = ~0.012

I'm betting Palmer will throw at least one pick on Sunday. ;)
 
This is kind of a fallacy. After Peterson and Mathieu I don't really see how it's one of the best secondries. Got DJ Swearinger at SS who is mediocre and the CB on the outside opposite of Peterson is a rookie. They were so thin at CB they just traded for Marcus Cooper who was terrible in 2014. Was so bad he didn't see the field last year.

Yeah without picking apart OP's post this point is wrong and like you said something people believe because it gets repeated. Pat P is a great talent and has definitely solidified himself as a top 3-5 guy. The Badger is a game changer but I have a hard time seeing him have an impact in this game.

After those 2 guys they are very beatable. They just traded for Cooper because they're still looking for someone opposite PP. Before him they had Justin Bethal and rookie Brandon Williams. Neither has been impressive at all.

They were also middle of the pack covering tight ends giving up 89 rec's on 137 targets for 929 and 6 TD's.

Their strength on defense is without a doubt the front seven. Recognizing and picking up their blitz package is absolutely key. They were also unreal in 3rd and long situations, again that front 7 and the blitz is real.

One thing people talk about is how Fitzpatrick will respond this year after his career year last season. Palmer has never been in a big game he didn't want to choke away. Getting to him is the most important thing on offense without a doubt. He sees ghosts and becomes very inaccurate with pressure even if it's not there. He has not looked good dating back to last year even before the Carolina game.

It will be a very tough game to win but Palmers play of late gives us a legit shot. They guy has simply been terrible his last few games. Even still it will be very tough. They are an incredibly deep team. Wr, Dline, RB being the deepest by far.
 
Nice evaluation and thanks. I think I am finally ready for some football.
5. Coaching - Bruce Ariens is a very good HC. I don't know his OC or DC, but this isn't a game where Bill and his staff can simply go in an out coach his opponent. They WILL be prepared for what they expect to see. I'm hoping Josh/MattyP will come up with a few things that they aren't expecting.
One thing about having a QB like Brady (only 1 season with injury :( ) is that there is little film on how coach BB handles first time QBs in game situations. Thus, it's really been about 8 years since this has happened and we know how BB leaves no details unattended (meaning how much has he improved the way he handles first time QBs). It's an aspect that adds a wrinkle to what the Cardinals have to handle. They have to speculate more than know how much of the playbook is open to JG and/or what they might add as they tailor the plays to JG's skillset.

Should be very interesting, but would rather stick with the same old Brady.

Fortunately for the Arizona, they are an excellent team and can get away with/recover from making some mistakes.
e. Thrilled my binky James Johnson made the roster. Devastated that my Binky KGH didn't....and I think it would have been easy to find him a slot (especially with 10 OLmen) Though I will be placated if he gets to the PS.
I only get 1 binky, how come you get 2? :)
 
I only get 1 binky, how come you get 2? :)

Scott%20two%20binkies_thumb%5B3%5D.jpg


Dude... knock yourself out. ;)
 
This is kind of a fallacy. After Peterson and Mathieu I don't really see how it's one of the best secondries. Got DJ Swearinger at SS who is mediocre and the CB on the outside opposite of Peterson is a rookie. They were so thin at CB they just traded for Marcus Cooper who was terrible in 2014. Was so bad he didn't see the field last year.
Based on what you've said, I hope you are right, JMC. I seem to be a victim of the media's tendency to build reputations.

BTW- I noticed the Cards just released Red Bryant. Back several years ago he was a target of Bill's when he was leaving Seattle. You seem to know the Cardinals pretty well, just who do they have on the front seven we should be wary of besides a very motivated Chandler Jones, or has their success of late been more a product of scheming rather than individual talent.
 
Yes, it was a very interesting cut down day. The good news is that this is one of the most talented squads in Patriots history. I've seen a lot of really great squads, but I really mean that, especially as far as the defensive side of the football.

This is the first time in recent memory where I'm not worried about:
- the pass rush
- the secondary
- the run defense

We seem to have it all and that is scary when Belichick has all of these tools at his disposal.
Add in the wildcard that is Barkevious Mingo, and this defense is shaping up to be downright scary.
It might turn out to be not just a top 5 defense, but dare I say it, the best defense in the entire NFL?

BdGH4AIIYAEgfT3.jpg

Our Defense is Sparta-level Scary!

My main concern this year is with the offensive side. And that sounds strange because I've never worried about that for almost a decade now. Perennially we field one of the highest, if not the highest scoring teams in the NFL. Our MO has been - we'll put up 30+ on you, now can you keep up?

Why am I concerned? Well first of all, no Brady for the first 4 games. Can Jimmy Garappolo perform at a high enough level for us to win 3-4 games? Can he win 2 games? I don't know. I know he doesn't have to be perfect because our defense will be very good, he doesn't have to do it all, but he hasn't proven anything yet either.

Other concerns - the OL. We just lost Vollmer and he has normally been a rock at RT. We are integrating the interior OL. It's basically a brand new facelift. I'm expecting to see Solder-Thuney-Andrews-Mason-Cannon or something quite close to that. My glimmer of hope - Dante Scarnecchia is back in charge of the OL. If there's one man who can organize and optimize the talent, it's Dante.

More concerns - our running game. Dion Lewis is hurt... again. Blount is who he is, however sporting a slimmed down look. Can he be the bellcow for this offense or do we need to rely on someone to step up? Will that be James White or DJ Foster?

Wide Receiver concerns - Edelman and Chris Hogan are the only healthy WRs. Mitchell is dinged up and although Amendola does not start on PUP, I don't expect him to be ready for the season opener. How soon he gets healthy is a big deal for us.

Tight end is our biggest strength - Gronk, Bennett, an emerging youngster in AJ Derby and a swiss army knife in Clay Harbor.

Obviously the NFL did us no favors by handing us the Cardinals away as our season opener. This will be a baptism by fire for JimmyG. And now here's the intriguing question, if he struggles and puts up a stinker in the 1st half, will we/should we see Jacoby Brissett open up the 2nd half??

Your thoughts are welcome as always and thanks for opening up with Idle Thoughts again Ken, your posts always provide good food for thought. Damn, it's football season again! Finally!
 
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I really appreciate your thoughts, pfk, as always - but I wish you would post them in an already existing thread We're on to Arizona by BobD. First out of respect to posters who already shared thoughts on the subject and second so that we all don't have to become schizophrenics jumping here and there, repeating our thoughts etc.

I would suggest to moderators to join these two threads.

-

Re. secondary it looked very exposed vs Houston without Mathieu, so lets se if he can bring his A game straight out of rehab. I guess he will be fine. Running game looked great with all RBs and it will be interesting to watch how we do against that - it will be good indication for the rest of the season.

The other thing from that game that was painfully obvious to local reporters is that they don't function as a team yet (Fitz was out as well). They also got a new injury to their secondary (forgot who it was).

So I see it as a contest of two hurting SB contenders trying hard to put their pieces together on time as much as they can due to injuries/suspensions etc.

If the trend from preseason games of creating turnovers and overwhelmingly winning the filed positions on punt/returns continues (and this could be a big part of the game with a lot of punting i guess) we have every chance of winning.

Hope Solder is ok to go. Hope JJ is on the team against return. Hope they put a trust in Foster (ahead of White) to pull a mini Lewis. Then it should be fun in the offense as well.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. Patfanken's Idle Thoughts needs its own thread.
 
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