idle thoughts- stepping back from the edge

[MoLewisrocks]

I very much agree - - BB the coach has been outstanding this year.

Your excellent post, however, makes conclusive that BB the GM must be shown the door.

I hope you forgot the sarcasm icon. Because you can't not know that they are a package deal.

 

[shmessy]

I hope you forgot the sarcasm icon. Because you can't not know that they are a package deal.

The obviousness of that speaks for itself.

 

[AzPatsFan]

I am posting this in apology. I just lost my temper reading for the umpteenth time that this gutsy, gritty Team stinks. When it has a chance to post the best record in the Conference. They are doing it with mirrors for sure. But also with Coaching, Discipline and Guts.

Having said that, the defensive problems this year are NOT THE SAME as the defensive problems of last season. so don't go ther about same old same old as rebuilding years 2009 and 2010.

Last season we were unable to establish a sufficent Pass Rush. That problem has been solved, Carter and Anderson along with the improved play of the young big men, along with Wilfork, has improved that area of the Defense.

We had lots of problems with the Linebacking, the last few years. And in fact still do. Injuries hurt there too, this season. But the injured guys seem to be slowly returning, and the talent is developing to have a more than adequate crew. Something not seen since the SB teams and players got old.

Now we have injury problems in the Secondary. No one is healthy back there, and the Safety situation is gruesome. But Belichick's masterful "Bend Don't Break" is working to limit the other team's scoring, if not their yardage accumulation. But I still think there is talent there in walking wounded McCourty, Chung and yes, Arrington, and a couple more now on IR. Ihedigbo may not be a great Safety, but he does have True Grit.

Can we win in the Playoffs? Before dissing the possibility, please recall the year of "Earth Wind and Fire Moreland". That secondary was just as banged up; and I don't think it had the talent in the CBs that this one does.

Watching to find out is what is Fun, and makes my attention worthwhile.

 

[supafly]

I am posting this in apology. I just lost my temper reading for the umpteenth time that this gutsy, gritty Team stinks. When it has a chance to post the best record in the Conference. They are doing it with mirrors for sure. But also with Coaching, Discipline and Guts.

Having said that, the defensive problems this year are NOT THE SAME as the defensive problems of last season. so don't go ther about same old same old as rebuilding years 2009 and 2010.

Last season we were unable to establish a sufficent Pass Rush. That problem has been solved, Carter and Anderson along with the improved play of the young big men, along with Wilfork, has improved that area of the Defense.

We had lots of problems with the Linebacking, the last few years. And in fact still do. Injuries hurt there too, this season. But the injured guys seem to be slowly returning, and the talent is developing to have a more than adequate crew. Something not seen since the SB teams and players got old.

Now we have injury problems in the Secondary. No one is healthy back there, and the Safety situation is gruesome. But Belichick's masterful "Bend Don't Break" is working to limit the other team's scoring, if not their yardage accumulation. But I still think there is talent there in walking wounded McCourty, Chung and yes, Arrington, and a couple more now on IR. Ihedigbo may not be a great Safety, but he does have True Grit.

Can we win in the Playoffs? Before dissing the possibility, please recall the year of "Earth Wind and Fire Moreland". That secondary was just as banged up; and I don't think it had the talent in the CBs that this one does.

Watching to find out is what is Fun, and makes my attention worthwhile.

I think that we can all learn a lesson from you in some regard, and try to focus on the positives and strengths of the 2011 team, just as much if not more, while trying to assess the weaknesses at the same time.

You make a very good point about continuing to get the job done, and that's really all that matters. I agree with you that once again, Belichick had done a tremendous job of keeping the NEP football brand top-notch and successful, even despite some injuries and lack of talent in certain areas. That should be just as much of a focus, if not more than the defensive problems.

Let's remember that although the team is giving up an approximate 24 pts per game on the road, they are only giving up 18 per game at home. With a victory this week in Denver, they should be setting themselves up very nicely for a 1st rd bye. Win ONE game at home, and now they're in the AFCCG again.

Even though many of us will not find that 'good enough,' it is still a pretty damn successful season to finish in the top 4 (I know that I am getting ahead of myself here, but just using the example for argument's sake).

Those of us who are frustrated at the defensive woes are just as innocent as you, as there is no harm intended (with the exception of the constant whiner who sees no positives at all). We all have that common bond which is the love of the team, and I think we'll see somewhat of a different team on Sunday, against an overrated DEN team who needs brought back down to earth.

Nice post.

 

[shmessy]

Can we win in the Playoffs? Before dissing the possibility, please recall the year of "Earth Wind and Fire Moreland". That secondary was just as banged up; and I don't think it had the talent in the CBs that this one does.

People forget, it wasn't just earthwind that year.

It was also Hank Poteat.

And troy Brown.

.....and some rookie JAG named Randall Gay who EVENTUALLY turned into a player.

2004 was actually tougher at Corner. (But the DL, S and LB's were better).

 

[robbomango]

to late......

 

[ATippett56]

too late......

Typical Jet Fan at the conclusion of another disappointing season.

 

[supafly]

People forget, it wasn't just earthwind that year.

It was also Hank Poteat.

And troy Brown.

.....and some rookie JAG named Randall Gay who EVENTUALLY turned into a player.

2004 was actually tougher at Corner. (But the DL, S and LB's were better).

As poor as some of the CB 'talent' that yr was, the overall defense was allowing 16 points per game.

The defense was ranked 2nd overall.

The rush defense in the playoffs was allowing less than 60 Yards per game, with numbers in the mid to late 50's....

And while Hank Poteat was indeed on the 2004 roster, he did not take part in any games or snaps, not on special teams, nor defense.

Hank Poteat NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

And Troy Brown ended up picking off 3 balls, and recovering 2 more fumbles in 2004....numbers like that would easily make him the #2 CB on this year's team, without a doubt.

I am not sure how relevant the comparison actually is, but it's nice to see the optimism

 

[shmessy]

As poor as some of the CB 'talent' that yr was, the overall defense was allowing 16 points per game.

The defense was ranked 2nd overall.

The rush defense in the playoffs was allowing less than 60 Yards per game, with numbers in the mid to late 50's....

And while Hank Poteat was indeed on the 2004 roster, he did not take part in any games or snaps, not on special teams, nor defense.

Hank Poteat NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

And Troy Brown ended up picking off 3 balls, and recovering 2 more fumbles in 2004....numbers like that would easily make him the #2 CB on this year's team, without a doubt.

I am not sure how relevant the comparison actually is, but it's nice to see the optimism

Re: Hank Poteat, your reference source is bad (or was just referencing the regular season):

The New England Patriots

"2004 Season

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2004 (0/0, 3/0): Signed with the Patriots in the week prior to their divisional playoff game and participated in all three postseason contests, recording three solo tackles. Indianapolis (1/16): Saw limited action as a cornerback in the fourth quarter of the Patriots' 20-3 victory over the Colts. Pittsburgh (1/23): Saw significant action at cornerback ... Collected two solo tackles and a pass defensed in the Patriots' 41-27 AFC Championship victory over the Steelers ... Teamed with Troy Brown to limit Hines Ward to a 6-yard gain on a third-and-eight play in the first quarter ... Batted down a Ben Roethlisberger pass intended for Hines Ward in the second quarter"

 

[supafly]

Re: Hank Poteat, your reference source is bad (or was just referencing the regular season):

The New England Patriots

"2004 Season

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2004 (0/0, 3/0): Signed with the Patriots in the week prior to their divisional playoff game and participated in all three postseason contests, recording three solo tackles. Indianapolis (1/16): Saw limited action as a cornerback in the fourth quarter of the Patriots' 20-3 victory over the Colts. Pittsburgh (1/23): Saw significant action at cornerback ... Collected two solo tackles and a pass defensed in the Patriots' 41-27 AFC Championship victory over the Steelers ... Teamed with Troy Brown to limit Hines Ward to a 6-yard gain on a third-and-eight play in the first quarter ... Batted down a Ben Roethlisberger pass intended for Hines Ward in the second quarter"

Apologies, Shmessy...

You're probably right, they probably were just referencing the regular season. I tried to look up stats to see what kind of production we had, and found 0 snaps and 0 games.

Appreciate the error catch.

Regardless, I still think that the team has a darn good shot, as long as they get the bye.

Allowing only 18 pts at home this yr, big difference than the 23-24 on the road.

 

[pherein]

People forget, it wasn't just earthwind that year.

It was also Hank Poteat.

And troy Brown.

.....and some rookie JAG named Randall Gay who EVENTUALLY turned into a player.

2004 was actually tougher at Corner. (But the DL, S and LB's were better).

I think people forget a lot. We don't have much to forget in NO because we still only have the one ring, and struggling to be better and a long way to go. But, from what we remember watching NE the rings came threw wins. There wasn't really a offense as good as the 2007 or today. Brady is getting so much better.
You battled with vinatieri, Brady, grimes, panos, Buschi, myers.. etc. , and these were close games, most 3pts or so.

Its why I don't understand the Redskins, Colts, and etc reaction. I think some people want a dominate team more than the win. Patriots had 3 SB wins that were not dominate at all. But they won. They dominate the era.

Its like that famous Colts stop, you never stopped PM from being on the 2, your defense stuffed the run when it had to.

We struggle with this also, whats more important looking cool and destroying the other team or SB? Because we have no problem looking cool, but we don't have SB's wins.

 

[supafly]

Its why I don't understand the Redskins, Colts, and etc reaction. .

I guess it's just the overall defensive performance that has a lot of people worried. Considering the level of competition to Washington (4-9) and Indy (0-12), both games went down to the final minute/were one score games; and that troubles some who are expecting a major upgrade to competition in the next month.

I don't think it's a matter of needing "blowouts," I just think watching both of those lousy teams score a high number of pts proved that there are a lot of problems on defense.

That, and the continued struggles of the secondary mixed with a run defense that gave up 5 yds a carry made many wonder if this team can win vs increased competition.

I think they can, as they are allowing 5-6 pts less at home, but it will be very good to get a bye and increase the chances.

If Sunday's game is a solid victory, morale in the fanbase and media will be picking up very quickly.

Some of it is understandable after poor defensive performances and one and dones in the playoffs the past 2 years; while some of it is just unnecessary nit-picking.

 

[robbomango]

I think people forget a lot. We don't have much to forget in NO because we still only have the one ring, and struggling to be better and a long way to go. But, from what we remember watching NE the rings came threw wins. There wasn't really a offense as good as the 2007 or today. Brady is getting so much better.
You battled with vinatieri, Brady, grimes, panos, Buschi, myers.. etc. , and these were close games, most 3pts or so.

Its why I don't understand the Redskins, Colts, and etc reaction. I think some people want a dominate teams more than the win. Patriots had 3 SB wins that were not dominate at all. But they won. They dominate the era.

Its like that famous Colts stop, you never stopped PM from being on the 2, your defense stuffed the run when it had to.

We struggle with this also, whats more important looking cool and destroying the other team or SB? Because we have no problem looking cool, but we don't have SB's wins.

Style baby, style......reinventing the image of superiority and greatness is the first step in recreating the evil patriots dynasty.

1st off I'm sick of them running out of that tunnel, together or alone. The patriots should have a runway installed at every stadium prior to a game.

Brady walks out first wearing a red cape and crown with scepter in hand. Let the other players wear blue capes while walking in his shadow.

2nd Lord Belichick walks out last, this creates an image of the mad genius lurking behind his masterpiece.

3rd following nothing short of a total beat down to another team, no hands will be shaken. The team simply puts on their cloaks of greatness and Lord belichick huddles everyone back onto the runway into the tunnel.

last but not least a propaganda minister will handle all pressers, greatness doesn't answer questions. Mangini the rat gets this job, he owes it to this team as redemption for the smear campaign he helped garnish upon it.

A little over the top media parody never hurts.

Go Pats!!! peace

 

[supafly]

Brady walks out first wearing a red cape, crown and scepter in hand. Let the other players wear blue capes while walking in his shadow.

Yessss...TFF!

 

[Deus Irae]

I think people forget a lot. We don't have much to forget in NO because we still only have the one ring, and struggling to be better and a long way to go. But, from what we remember watching NE the rings came threw wins. There wasn't really a offense as good as the 2007 or today. Brady is getting so much better.
You battled with vinatieri, Brady, grimes, panos, Buschi, myers.. etc. , and these were close games, most 3pts or so.

Its why I don't understand the Redskins, Colts, and etc reaction. I think some people want a dominate team more than the win. Patriots had 3 SB wins that were not dominate at all. But they won. They dominate the era.

Its like that famous Colts stop, you never stopped PM from being on the 2, your defense stuffed the run when it had to.

We struggle with this also, whats more important looking cool and destroying the other team or SB? Because we have no problem looking cool, but we don't have SB's wins.

Sure you do, because it's the same reaction that Saints fans have when they struggle against teams they should destroy. Any differences are in degree, not kind.

 

[shmessy]

Apologies, Shmessy...

You're probably right, they probably were just referencing the regular season. I tried to look up stats to see what kind of production we had, and found 0 snaps and 0 games.

Appreciate the error catch.

Regardless, I still think that the team has a darn good shot, as long as they get the bye.

Allowing only 18 pts at home this yr, big difference than the 23-24 on the road.

Hey, no apologoes necessary Supa.

I make 15-20 errors in an hour!

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Another game, another win, another rash of complaints. God it is hard to be a Pats fan these days.

I said it before the game, and I imagine I will say it for the next 3 weeks; NOTHING this team can do will satisfy the media/general fan base/and the denizens of Patsfans.com. That being said here are a few observations and opinions on the game and the weekend in general

1.Lost in the "sturm and drang" of all the yards that the Redskins gained this week, is the "small" fact that the Pats D only gave up 7 points the entire 2nd half. It makes one wonder what it could do if we had the talent that they do on the Cowboys and Giants. You know those teams that gave up 22 and 17 points respectively in their game last night.

2. Also lost in the complaints was the stellar job Matt Light did. Brian Orakbu is one of the best pass rushers in the game and I don't remember even hearing his name all game, The same could be said for the most part for Nate Solder as well

3. One of a number of pet peeves I had to endure from this broadcast team was their CONSTANT reminders that the Redskins had to play with 2 new starting OTs. Granted that was a story, but I could never understand what it seemingly wasn't as story that the Pats were playing with their 4th string C and a rookie LT. I guess I can assume that injuries aren't an excuse for the Pats, just the rest of the league. (a perception btw, which probably makes BB very happy)

4. Speaking of the OL, I wonder what Fleger thinks of the mighty Jets "system" that lets the OL fall apart with a single short term injury to Mangold, while the Pats go FOUR deep and barely skip a beat

5. One to the things that impressed me the most about Nick McDonald was when the coaches had to replace him early in the game after Brady was sacked on pressure up the middle. The took him out, talked to him, put him back, and it never happened again. Good coaching, better response.

6.Brady was dead wrong in his blow up on the sidelines. Wrong to blame the receiver. Wrong to make the throw, and Wrong to come back on his coach. Curran may be right that Brady is taking too much on his shoulders and the pressure is getting to him. That being said, I LOVED the fact that BOB went off on him. Unlike with guys like Manning and Farve, on the Pats even Tom F'n Brady isn't above hard coaching. And I LOVED Tom's chastened response after the game. He gave the perfect answer. Its now a non-story...not that THAT's going to stop the relentless media from trying to read more into it than it was.

7. 60% Completion rate - 357 yds 3 TDs and one pick - This the line on one of Brady's worst days in a few years. Amazing when you consider, at one point, he was 8 for 19. I have to say its been a long time since I saw him just flat out miss guys or be on a different page than his receivers so often Clearly it was just "one of those days". GOD, are we spoiled or WHAT!?

8. Brady has 3 very good receiving RBs, and one who is merely capable (BJGE) I have to think that he'd relieve a lot of pressure on himself and the rest of the receiving corps, if he threw the ball to these guys on a more regular basis than he has thus far this season. Last season Woodhead had 34 receptions in 14 games. This season he has 15 in 12. Time to get the RBs involved in passing game, while at the same time get the run game going better.

9. There was a good thread on the McCourty, here I my thoughts on that hot button issue Agree with those who felt that McCourty played a much better game yesterday, especially in the second half. The critical PI penalty that was called on McCourty was no worse that what the Skin DB did to Underwood which wasn't called. The difference between success and failure is THAT thin...and that arbitrary

I've said it before and I'll say it again. McCourty WASN'T beaten by Stallworth on that long gain. In man coverage, he's SUPPOSED to play the receiver from underneath. He was in perfect position. He was beaten by the perfect pass. Just like EVERY DB is when that occurs. Just like the Skin DB who was covering Gronk on one of his TDs. Perfect position....Perfect pass....TOUCHDOWN.

He made at least 4 very good plays in the second half that I can recall. And what was most telling was he made some in man coverage and some in zone. If I wanted to be CONSTRUCTIVELY critical, these would be some of the comments I would make and I'm sure they'll be echoed by his own coaches.

a. He needs to be more physical on the LOS. He has to vastly improve his jam. He is not consistent enough. This is a technique issue which will hopefully be improved on over the off season

b. He has to play more confidently. In other words be willing to take chances on the ball. See it, read it, believe it, then ACT on it. and damned be the consequences. That's the way Ty Law played. It seems to me that he sometimes plays it too safe. Willing to simply make the tackle rather than "make the play"

I guess know WHEN to do "go for it" and WHEN to play it safe are things that develop over time, and certainly NOT under the conditions when WRs are being drafted to do Safety duty.

10. I'm pretty sure that a lot of the secondary woes would have been largely mitigated if Barrett, Dowling, Bodden, and Chung has been able to remain healthy. It would have made cutting Merriweather, Sanders, and Page seem like more sense, though I still don't understand why Page wasn't given a chance the 2nd time around.

Still I think it makes more sense to criticize BB for this, than his drafting prowess or lack thereof. It can't be a good thing when you head into the playoffs where your top 3 safeties are 2 WRs stolen from the offense in midseason, and a career special teamer you just picked up AFTER the season began. How come THAT's not a story.

11. James Iheadabu is one tough SOB. And SHAME on those nitwits hiding in their basements to complain about him. He's doing a yeoman's job under very difficult circumstances, and yet you have these armchair QBs who'd be felled with a paper cut, complaining about a guy who is gutting it out to make sure that Sergio Brown doesn't have to see the field. Now THAT is what I call "taking one for the team"

12. I can't do one of these without mentioning that Julian Edelman is one of the surer tackling DBs I've seen this year.....how does THAT figure?

13. Nice to see Dane Fletcher back on the field. He had some very good.....and very bad moments on the field. Too often I saw him run "under" blocks on that successful Redskin sweep. Though on the other hand, there were several time I saw him right in the thick of it on the LOS and it was my impression that he wasn't out of position in coverage. Certainly a lot of room to improve, given he's missed most of the season, but IMHO an instant upgrade over Gary Guyton

14. Redskin observations, since we don't see them often.

a. I LOVE London Fletcher. One tidbit BB threw out on Patriots All Access worth sharing, was that over the last 10 years, Fletcher has over 250 more tackes than Ray Lewis, and close 450 more than Urlacher. And nothing in his play yesterday would make me feel any less admiration for him.

b. Roy Hallu is a very nice RB who is going to gain a lot of yards in the old Denver running system

c. That make shift OL did a very nice job, overall against what was supposedly the strength of our defense.

15. While many may continue to beat the dead horse that is our secondary, my major complaint was how poorly the DL and LBs did against the Redskin pass protection and run game. Too many long runs and too little pressure on Grossman.

16 Two drops, Two flat out missed passes and the Pats might have had 3-4 more TDs instead of winding up with 2 FGs and a pick (I'm also counting missing a wide open Gronk) Can't be missing 4 or 5 opportunities like that against playoff competition.

17. FINALLY - The general ARBITRARY nature of the way the game is called is starting to vast diminish my enjoyment of the game. Just look at a few plays. The PI on McCourty in the first half is called and keeps a critical drive alive. A Skin DB does almost the exact same thing and gets a pick. Gronk gets a helmet to head as a defenseless receiver on the Skins GL which is ignored, (which was fine by my btw), while Grossman gets a flag for having his ankle touched. Then because of that they feel they have to call a needless flag on Fletcher, and then ANOTHER needless call (though a lot less egregious) on Wilfolk.
I saw Dedrick get a justified holding call on a play that I'd seen let go a dozen times before.

I just can't figure it out anymore. Every play is literally held hostage by the possibility that some ARBITRARY flag is going to erase a play from existence. There doesn't seem to be a single in complete pass that doesn't end with a flag or a player calling for a flag. And if its affecting a football lifer like me, imagine what its doing to the casual fan.

Actually ken, I did point that out.

Seven official assisted points in the second half.

10 official assisted points for the final three quarters.