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Idle thoughts – a reversal of fortune

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patfanken, Dec 24, 2012.

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  1. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Last week we lost a game and felt good about it. This week we win a game and we all feel horrible about it. The chicken little's will have a field day this week. Panties will bunch, Sweat will flow. Scrotum's will tighten. And the arbiters of fear and loathing will spew their venom and expect us all to quake. But before we have to hear all that, here are a few observations OK let's go.

    1. In my pregame thoughts I hoped for an ugly win in order lower our Superbowl visibility. I always liked being an underdog. I never expected to actually get it. ;) That's 3 very ugly starts in a row.

    2. The bad news is that this is the 3rd week in a row that the Pat's defense was carved up for the first drive of the game. I suppose its comforting to note that again, as the game went on it got better and better. The Jags had 206 first quarter yds and only about 200 more the rest of the game. I think a faster start on defense would be appreciated.

    3. Until the last drive Chandler Jones was pretty much missing in action again. Then suddenly he made 2 very big plays. Personally I'd to know where he was the other 3 ¾ of the game. Because before that last little burst I didn't see him get close to the QB on his rushes. In fact I thought that midway through the game they were giving some of his snaps to Francis, who didn't get to the QB either, but he was getting a lot closer than Jones was.

    It seems to me that Jones really only has one move. I don't know if he only rushes to the outside because of his contain responsibilities, or its the only move he has. I'd like to see him make an inside move once in a while, or develop a Freeney-like spin move. I also wouldn't mind seeing him used in the middle occasionally on the pass rush. At any rate it was good to see him come up big. Its been a while.

    4. The good news on the Pats chances of getting a by is that they are now better. With the very surprising Houston loss our chances improved. They have a tough away game against the Colts next week, and if they lose it, we get the bye.

    The bad news is, from what I understand, the Colts have nothing to play for next week. I don't think a loss affects their playoff position a bit. It would have been better if the Colts had something to play for. Perhaps having their HC back for the game will be enough motivation to play their best. Or they just might rest their players for this game. Either way I don't see it as a great chance for a bye, but its a better chance than before..

    5. Donta Hightower continues to improve his play. Not just his tackles but his impact plays

    6. The NFL has GOT to make some changes to their roughing the QB rules this off season. I have no idea what the Jag defender could have done differently. I think the league has to allow some contact to the head of the QB. Brady ducks his head right into the defender.

    I think if QB is hit in the face mask with the face mask of the defender it shouldn't be a penalty. Its hits with the top of the helmet to the side of the helmet that are dangerous. Mere contact to the QB's helmet should not be a penalty, but blows to the QB's helmet should. Officials need to make that distinction.

    7. Chung will likely be fined for his hit on Short, but again, it looked like there wasn't much he could have done differently, and BB agrees. It seemed to me that he makes an effort at the last second to turn his body and hit him with a shoulder. Granted it was a shoulder to his head, but I don't see what his alternative would have been, except to avoid contact and let him catch the ball.

    What really ticks me off was that it was only after it was clear the Short was dinged that the first flag was dropped, and then like monkeys the rest couldn't wait to get theirs out. I wish they were just honest with us and called the penalty “15 yds for hitting the receiver too hard” because ultimately that what in amounts to. If Shorts had jumped right up I'm not sure a flag would have been thrown.,

    I just saw another even better example of the “15 yds for hitting the receiver too hard” rule in the Seattle/SF game. I'm sorry, I don't mean to look like I'm an old fart, but this has gone too far. They will kill the game we love if it keeps on. Playing good defense will become more and more impossible to do.. I support legitimate attempts to make the game safer, but the pendulum has swung too far and needs to swing back a few degrees.

    8. You have to love Brady and Wilfolk. They are not only the faces of the team, they are the leaders inside the locker room. They have weight that goes beyond the influence of BB and his staff.. Brady was truly pissed off after the game. There was none of the usual diplomacy and talking points. Brady was livid and made no attempt to hide it from anyone. Wilfolk was a little more subtle, but made also made it perfectly clear that what went on in Jacksonville was “unacceptable”. In fact the most positive post game presser was given by Bill Bellichick. How ironic is THAT? :eek:

    9. I'm watching the SF/Seattle game and maybe the ragged play of the Pats this afternoon makes more sense now. The SF defense looks whipped. Having to play 92 plays last week with little substitution has taken a toll on the Niners.

    Because they have been incredibly lucky with injuries to their defense defense, the loss of Jason Smith has affected them more than most teams losing just one player. Also while I'm sure the physical play of SF took something out of the Pats, I think the Pats play a more physical game than most people think, and its taken something out of SF tonight.

    10. I remember some stat from 2001, where the Pats were so physical that year, that week after teams played the Pats most teams lost, even teams that beat the Pats.. I don't remember the exact record, but it was impressive. I'm sure BB would love to build a defense and an OL that creates that kind of physicality again.

    11. There is going to be a lot of contentious discussion this week about Patrick Chung. There will be people on his case for the personal foul. There will be others who will remember the big play by Stokely where he overran it, and caused the long YAC. But I thought he did many more positive things than negative ones today. More than just the interceptions.

    One key play that should be noted was the first and goal on the 2 yd line at the end of the game. Mayo made the big hit on the one that stopped Jones, but didn't drop him. When you look at the replay the guy who keeps him from making another stab at the last yard was Patrick Chung, who came out of nowhere and just threw his body into Jones and stopped his forward progress at the one. The next play was the penalty and then the sack and finally the pick. But it all might not have happened if Chung hand made the big physical play.

    Say what you want about him. No one in the secondary bring more "physical presence" to the field than Chung.

    12. Stephen Gotskowski generally kicks about half his kicks deep into the endzone. Today he rarely got them to the GL. I wonder what the conditions were that caused his kicks to be about 10 yds shorter this week.

    13. I hope someone this week asks BB why he didn't challenge the incompletion on one of the Lloyd catches. I know Lloyd slammed the ball down like he was pissed at the drop, bit the replays made it look like a catch. Anyone else wonder about that?

    14 Here is a an early list of players I DON'T want to see play next week. Mankins, Connolly, Talib, and Spikes. I really hope that Gronk and Dennard will be ready to play.

    15. Pats on the back to MCole and TWhite for 2 excellent jobs coming in to play. Usually I'm down on White when he has to play LB, but he did well today. Part of the defensive success we had the last 2 thirds of the game came because we could move Ninko back to the outside. Cole made a great fall back read on his pick, but was also a solid defender and tackler. He should be added to all the thank you notes to the Jets when we send them out for the Woodhead gift.....which kept on giving today. :D
    .
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2012
  2. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I couldn't watch the game, but I can think of two possibilities off the top of my head:

    (1) Cold weather tends to shorten kickoffs. Not sure if it was cold enough to make that much of a difference though.

    (2) BB could have deliberately asked him not to kick it deep for some reason. Last week notwithstanding, the Pats KO coverage team is still a top-tier unit.
     
  3. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Another point I forgot to mention. Steven Ridley rushed the ball very effectively for 18 times, 84 yd, and 4.7 ypc. Clearly BB doesn't have a problem with his so called "fumbling problems", though they were mentioned several times by the announcers as if he was a fumbling machine.

    This kid has about 1200 yds in 15 games. Something this team hasn't seen since Corry Dillon. I think he's earned our support.

    As to those who are quick to throw blame on him for the first pick, you don't know what you are talking about. Ridley had about 3 steps on the defender. The ball was slightly underthrown and Ridley had to slow down. The defender caught up and got into a position to make a play on the ball. Here's what pisses me off about the critics. Why does there have to be "blame" placed on anyone at all. Why blame Brady for throwing a less than perfect pass. It wasn't a bad pass, just not perfect.

    Why blame Ridley for being part of the deflection. He's not like he's a WR with brilliant hands. Why don't we give the defensive players some credit for making a nice play to disrupt Ridley and the S who made a nice play to catch the deflection and stay inbounds.

    Its like the pass that potential TD pass Mincy deflected in the 2nd half. Brady threw a good pass and Mincy deflected it. If Brady had throw a "perfect" pas (about 6 inches higher) it would have been a TD. Should we blame Brady? I don't think so. Sometimes you have to credit the defender, and its rarely going to be "perfect".

    Sorry for the mini rant, but I think that has to be said.
     
  4. DocHoliday

    DocHoliday In the Starting Line-Up

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    Totally agree with you on the physicality thing.

    I'm convinced that Bill is starting to reverse his push in recent years to sterilize the D of attitude like he and Brady have done to the O.

    You simply can't be an efficient, 'system' rules based D with obedient little drones. You need ruthless monsters to deal out big hits with attitude. Is it any coincidence our best players on D minus Vince are all 'bad guys?' (Spikes, Hightower, Dennard, Talib, etc)
     
  5. Brady_to_Moss

    Brady_to_Moss Revis Island is here PatsFans.com Supporter

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    i don't feel bad over this win...no spikes..no talib most game..no dennard had to completely change who played where and they had to get use to it in the 1st half and the rust at the positions showed. Nothing to worry about there..you had to know they sucked and they also made plays when they had to in the 4th
     
  6. serifyn

    serifyn Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I don't think the Patriots can afford to rest anyone next week even if there is nothing to be gained, The patriots desperately need a confidence builder going into the post-season, where they will most likely be playing the Bengals in the first round.

    The Bengals are a team who figure to be a tough matchup, their pressure up the middle is incredible and guys like Gronkowski wouldn't be able to chip block from his outside position, Dalton is a good enough quarterback to be able to beat you and AJ Green scares the hell out of me with beat up corners and questionable safeties, This is the kind of team the Patriots have lost against this year, Not great offensively, but good enough to shut you down for two and a half quarters while they hang around long enough to eventually take the game, Geno Atkins scares me more than JJ Watt or Von Miller do, without Edelman to run our screen game, This is a much tougher match-up than people think.

    The Patriots need to get their offense together, If they play like they did offensively against the 49ers or the Jags, they won't beat any of the teams who are in the AFC playoffs.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2012
  7. PatsFanNM

    PatsFanNM On the Roster

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    I didn't see the hit on Brady the same way. There's a way to avoid that penalty -- aim for the chest area, down to the thigh area. The defender aimed high and, contrary to what the announcer said, Brady did not duck his head (move it closer to the ground). He tilted his head forward. If he had not, the defender would have hit him square in the face mask, with significant force, and the same penalty would have resulted. You can argue that hitting the face mask shouldn't be a penalty, but if you hit it hard enough (as in this case) the same kind of injury can result.

    The defender has to aim lower; aiming that high is just asking for a penalty, regardless of what the quarterback does. The penalty on Chung was more debatable, because both Chung and the receiver significantly lowered their heads, leading to the helmet- (or shoulder-) to-helmet collision. Hard to know what Chung could have done to avoid that.
     
  8. JMarr

    JMarr In the Starting Line-Up

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    M'kay....
    I enjoy your posts, but every once in a while logical thinking does get lost in the whole stream-of-consciousness thing. ;)
     
  9. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think we're getting pretty used to seeing this on a very regular basis in the past couple/few years.

    In one way it's strange to me that they allow so many earlier drive successes to the other team, but it's also an enormous credit to the defense for having the ability to adapt to what the other team is doing.

    Their ability to adapt (usually, of course) has really jumped out at me not just as a whole, but this year in particular.
     
  10. Big-T

    Big-T In the Starting Line-Up

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    Have you missed or just forgot the rest of the season? Jones has shown a number of pass rush moves throughout the year.

    From what I remember Mincey was always going to hit Brady above the shoulders and Brady ducking his head was to avoid being hit in the facemask by the crown of Mincey's helmet - which would have probably knocked him out of the game, Mincey is going to get a fine for that.

    Allow some contact to the head of the QB? Contact to the head of any player should be banned, unless you want to give countless people brain damage and shorten their lives significantly.

    In both versions of Rugby contact above the shoulders is banned, that's how it should be in the NFL as well.
     
  11. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Thought as a team they had moved away from "playing to the level of competition", thought this was a bane several years ago and there was maturing on all levels..

    From my couch it seemed as though this team was not focused, again, and seemed lethargic.. freaking Jacksonville pass rush, come on man!! Brady is getting hit too much, our O line played better against the Houston D...

    Where was Hernandez??, seemed that last week he was not focused, but this week he played a lot of snaps and did not have much production..

    Chung is not the answer, he made two int.. but reminds me of the "Big Bang Clock"... big hits, but cannot cover, always out of position. He has a short shelf live here...

    Harlan and Wilcotts made a very long, nerve racking game much longer.. listening to them is like watching Sanchez play quarterback.. kept looking for "Tony Gonsalves" that somehow we miraculously picked up according to Wilcotts.. ..
     
  12. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I think its a factor of the defense being a year older, and the rookies that are playing having incredible football IQ's. It is only going to get better in the coming years.
     
  13. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    If he has, then he hasn't shown any of them since he's come back from his injury, and least to my eyes.

    That's is a ridiculous statement. Are you aware of the tens of millions of people in this country who have played football for several years who amazingly (according to you) managed to avoid brain damage. :rolleyes: The fear mongers have done a great job in equating playing football to getting brain damage. In the future parents will keep their kids from playing the game we all love, yet will gladly hand them the key to a car, where they are infinitely more likely to suffer injury.

    And the day they ban helmets in football, I'll happily subscribe to your thoughts. Until that time, what you propose is just plain dumb.
     
  14. DocHoliday

    DocHoliday In the Starting Line-Up

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    Most of the players with significant symptoms of concussions played up to the 90s, and the worst of them before that.

    We've had a lot of new safety rules already - i'd like to see how they pan out.
     
  15. RelocatedPatFan

    RelocatedPatFan In the Starting Line-Up

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    With regard to the hit on Brady being called a penalty, I think Brady may have changed the elevation of his head by about 3 inches before contact. I'd hardly call that ducking and I have no problem with that being called on the QB.

    Chung shouldn't be fined because he hit him with his shoulder into what I thought was his chest area. But, it looked completely violent in real time and maybe they call it on that basis, but they'll need to change the wording for next year.
     
  16. Tasco

    Tasco On the Game Day Roster

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    I think had to do more with BB not wanting him to; Ghost hit a FG of 49y so he should have kicked some out of the endzone.
     
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