I want it all, including a #3 WR

[tanked_as_usual]

But again, the argument that you're trying to make is that the #3 WR was a weakness that needs equal attention to the needs of the defense, and IMO that is not the case. As I also stated, I would not be surprised to see them bring in other WRs through FA or the draft. But I don't believe that upgrading Gaffney would A) have a significant impact on our Super Bowl chances compared to other positional moves, and B) be cost effective given the other needs of the team.

where did I say that a #3 WR is as important as defensive need?? again, learn to comprehend

gaffney is a free agent..........so a valid #3 doesn't exist anyway, so the pats will be getting one.........defense had nothing to do with it........the only question is should it be gaffney or someone else.....I say someone else

 

[Sicilian]

where did I say that a #3 WR is as important as defensive need?? again, learn to comprehend

gaffney is a free agent..........so a valid #3 doesn't exist anyway, so the pats will be getting one.........defense had nothing to do with it........the only question is should it be gaffney or someone else.....I say someone else

Sorry, I kind of lumped you in with the original poster. Didn't really mean to assume parts of your argument you weren't actually making.

My argument still stands though. Whether he's a FA or not, truly upgrading him would require paying likely more money for a resource that is unproven in our system. And again I would ask anyone unhappy with Gaffney's performance, what do you expect out of a position that is likely the 4th or 5th option on most offensive plays?

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

It is, and we're already doing that. Meriweather, Mayo, Guyton, Crable, Redd, Ruud, Wilhite, Wheatley, Richardson, Robertson, Craig. They are all guys developing in the secondary or the linebacker group. If there was a stud CB we could draft that we knew would have higher upside than Wheatley or Wilhite, than its a no-brainer, we'll take him. And I think we will draft CB on Day 1, but I don't think there is a stud CB that fits for the Pats, and that the CBs that do fit (DJ Moore, Smith) aren't going to have immediate impact and will take some time just as Wheatley/Wilhite.

So when looking for things that are easily upgradeable in 2009, WR #3 does come to mind.

You can't seriously be content with a bunch of unknowns other than Mayo and Merriweather. Wilhite played better late, Guyton showed a tiny glimpse of his speed and Wheatley showed very little when he did play. Craig, Robertson, Ruud, Richardson and Redd may not even make the team come next season. If the Pats do not sign or draft a premeir pass rusher, than Crable will have a lot of pressure to become the savior of their pass rush.

 

[Deus Irae]

You can't seriously be content with a bunch of unknowns other than Mayo and Merriweather. Wilhite played better late, Guyton showed a tiny glimpse of his speed and Wheatley showed very little when he did play. Craig, Robertson, Ruud, Richardson and Redd may not even make the team come next season. If the Pats do not sign or draft a premeir pass rusher, than Crable will have a lot of pressure to become the savior of their pass rush.

This team hasn't had a premier pass rusher in the Bill Belichick era, yet it's somehow managed to get to 4 Super Bowls and win 3 of them.

 

[VJCPatriot]

This team hasn't had a premier pass rusher in the Bill Belichick era, yet it's somehow managed to get to 4 Super Bowls and win 3 of them.

Willie McGinest says hi. Oh yeah I forgot that we automatically trash and forget about every player once who leaves this team. My bad!

 

[BradyManny]

You can't seriously be content with a bunch of unknowns other than Mayo and Merriweather. Wilhite played better late, Guyton showed a tiny glimpse of his speed and Wheatley showed very little when he did play. Craig, Robertson, Ruud, Richardson and Redd may not even make the team come next season. If the Pats do not sign or draft a premeir pass rusher, than Crable will have a lot of pressure to become the savior of their pass rush.

Going into next season, their OLBs in the nickel package will be Vrabel and Adalius Thomas, I don't see much changing that. I am hoping Adalius moves inside in the base D. But short of signing Suggs, I don't see a move to make that will bring them an elite edge rusher. It's not there in the draft, and even signing Suggs is only going to provide a marginal upgrade as an edge rusher. It's hard to predict how his sack #s would be once he got here, OLBs in our system are - on passing downs - asked to drop in coverage or spy RBs, they aren't asked to tee off on every play.

To me, that makes Adalius 5 sacks in limited time more impressive. For the first few weeks, he was hardly rushing, and after that, he was still responsible for TEs and RBs at times.

I would've loved to get Groves in the last draft, but they went w Crable, and I think that'll turn out well - except it won't happen overnite.

 

[BradyBranch39]

If we had Branch in Feb 08, we'd have beaten the Giants, no doubt.

if we had branch in Jan 07, we'd have won the super bowl then too.

 

[Lifer]

I Want it All, you say??
YouTube - High School Musical 3 - I Want It All Music Video HQ

 

[mgteich]

1) Yes, we need a #3 WR. Is that a news flash? Gaffney isn't signed. We will sign one or two in free agency. My preference is two; injuries do happen. There are roles for three strong wide receivers.

2) It's true that we could use an upgrade over 2008 Gaffney. Gaffney in 2009 with Brady at QB would be a major upgrade.

3) A later round WR in the draft (4th or later) who is a top Special Teamer is always a possiblity (returner perhaps?).

4) The implication is that our offense needs to get better (see also the posts on the poor quality of our OL). Our 2007 offense was one of the best in the history of the NFL. We had a fine offense in 2008. There is no reason not to expect the 2009 offense to be one of the league's very best, once Brady is 100%.

5) The offense is not the problem that will keep us out of the playoffs or even the Super Bowl in the 2009/2010 season. However, there is need to bring in players who might start at OG, OT and TE in 2010 and beyond. All the prospects are in their contract years (except Light who is signed all the way through 2010).

 

[RayClay]

You can find mediocre talent that won Super Bowls at every position. It doesn't mean that you don't go out looking for a Randy Moss at receiver.

We have Randy Moss at WR. Wes Welker too.

 

[RayClay]

This team hasn't had a premier pass rusher in the Bill Belichick era, yet it's somehow managed to get to 4 Super Bowls and win 3 of them.

Willie McGinest.

 

[Deus Irae]

Willie McGinest.

What about him?

 

[363839]

I have this terrible dream that many of our fans want us to turn into the Colts.. Our offensive core is great.. nothing needs to be changed. we need to revamp in our secondary and get younger in the LB Corps.. this should be a top priority period..

We could essentially have 7 picks in the first 3 rounds and I think that BB is going to load up on Def Speed and Talent..

I don't see us making a big free agent splash other than Mike Brown or Dewan Landry.. I actually see them extending Mankins/ Wilfork / Seymour etc..

I wouldn't mind seeing them pick up a good TE.

 

[363839]

Willie McGinest.

Yup. Haven't had a Superbowl victory since he left.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Assuming a Cassel trade (big assumption), I believe the Patriots will have the resources (picks and cap room) to address all of their pressing offseason personnel needs, including a #3 WR. I realize that there is a mood that the defense needs all the attention this offseason and that the offense, the WR corps in particular, is good enough such that a #3 WR is a nice but minor need. I disagree--I believe that an upgrade at the #3 WR would be a significant upgrade to this team and therefore is a significant offseason priority.

I started to think about the value of a #3 WR when the rumor of Deion Branch return was floated--imagine if the Patriots had a small, quick, smart #3 WR that could play the outside and dominate against single coverage. If he had enough speed to threaten the CB, he would be open all day for outs, slants, and stop routes.

The reality is that when this team loses it is often because the offense struggles. Of course the defense needs help, but in fact they don't lose a lot of high-scoring games. Often, our offense struggles when the QB is pressured, usually by blitzing. Moss isn't a great blitz-beating WR, leaving Welker and screens at this point. If we had a #3 WR that was great at beating blitzes, it could be a significant component of the offense when teams are pressuring.

I like Gaffney, but he could be upgraded significantly. It'd be nice to re-sign him as a #4, if the special teams could handle it. A #3 WR upgrade would also help if Moss gets hurt, which is currently not an attractive scenario for this team.

So, any suggestions of available free agents or draftees that could fill this need for a small, quick, smart #3 WR with enough speed?

Isaac ya bum, where've you been goofing off at? Get your butt over to the Draft Forum and let's get this WR thing hashed out!

Options:

Percy Harvin, Florida 5-11/195 - still learning how to be a deep threat, but a versatile talent who can be used in a variety of ways.
Hakeem Nicks, North Carolina 6-1/210 - Awsome bowl game against WV.
Darrius Heyward-Bey, Maryland 6-2/206 - Fast, gets the Uncle Heatster prime beef stamp of approval.
Derrick Williams, Penn State 5-11/197 - Doing a better job running routes in the Senior Bowl practices than was expected, speedy.
Brian Robiskie, Ohio State 6-3/207 - well trained possession kid who has enough speed to get deep on some routes too.
Kenny Britt, Rutgers 6-4/215 - productive kid, but with a history of drops.
Juaquin Iglesias, Oklahoma 6-1/204 - may be sliding some more if he doesn't break loose in the Senior Bowl game after a lackluster week of practice.
Louis Murphy, Florida 6-2/205 - Speedy, reportedly not a great route runner, "Florida" WR, missing the Senior Bowl after a knee injury in the BCS Championship.
Mohamed Massaquoi, Georgia 6-2/210 - Britt redux.
Brandon Gibson, Washington State 6-1/204 - Getting some love from his Senior Bowl practices.
Austin Collie, BYU 6-2/206 - productive possession WR.
Mike Thomas, Arizona 5-08/187 - described as a slot WR, but with more speed than Welker, perhaps more of a Branch-type with good hands who can play a 1-b WR in time.
Quan Cosby, Texas 5-09/191 - playmaker.
Brandon Tate, North Carolina 6-1/195 - productive WR, coming off an ACL injury.
Brooks Foster, North Carolina 6-1/204 - Getting some love from his Senior Bowl practices.
Jeremy Childs, Boise State 6-0/196 - he was a playmaker for Boise, I'd take a late round flyer on him.
Tiquan Underwood, Rutgers 6-2/185 - had an off year but was very productive for Rutgers.
D.J. Boldin, Wake Forest 5-11/220 - started coming on his Senior season, maybe he could be a late round version of his big brother.

 

[mesoslo]

whats the status on Jeremy Maclin and Michael Crabtree, will they be in the draft? Maclin might still be around when the patriots draft at 23, or the patriots could always trade up if crabtree falls out of the top ten slot.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

whats the status on Jeremy Maclin and Michael Crabtree, will they be in the draft? Maclin might still be around when the patriots draft at 23, or the patriots could always trade up if crabtree falls out of the top ten slot.

Both declared and are projected Top 15.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

This team hasn't had a premier pass rusher in the Bill Belichick era, yet it's somehow managed to get to 4 Super Bowls and win 3 of them.

Here's the difference, every year the Pats made the superbowl, they were able to generate at least 40 sacks with what they had. However, this year was pathetic. Don't even mention injuries because they were terrible at the beginning of the season.

What about him?

Sure, he wasn't a guy that had the sexy sack numbers, but he was clutch when it mattered most. Whenever the Pats needed that one sack to end a key drive in the playoffs, it was Willie coming up big. Nobody has stepped up since he left. Thomas couldn've been that guy in the superbowl and the MVP had he wrapped up Eli Manning before his miracle pass.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Here's the difference, every year the Pats made the superbowl, they were able to generate at least 40 sacks with what they had. However, this year was pathetic. Don't even mention injuries because they were terrible at the beginning of the season.

So we'll mention the rookie in the middle who was getting help from Adalius on passing downs.

 

[DocE]

I'd like an upgrade at the outside WR starting position, but I don't expect it to happen. If we had someone to keep the deep safety from shading so far towards Moss's sided of the field, the offense would be that much better. As it stands now we only have one player who makes plays down the field.

Another way to improve the offense would be to have a TE who could get down the seam and make a catch. As of now, we don't have a TE who threatens the deep middle of the field, althought Watson should be capable, he hasn't done it.

My biggest concern at WR is depth, I can live with Gaffney as a starter on the outside, but I really feel like we need a 4th true WR on the team. If our base offense is going to be a 3 WR set, then we need to have at least 4 viable receivers on the roster. In 2007 we did, but in 2008 we replaced Stallworth with Aiken and ended up with 2 primarily special teams guys taking up the 4th and 5th WR spots.

I agree that there are much greater needs than WR, but I do think a more dynamic guy outside opposite Moss with Welker in the slot would be beneficial. Gaffney is the ideal no.4 guy in my mind as he can play X, Y, or Z.