How Tom Brady can win in the court of public opinion

[mgteich]

True but you still go nuclear when you have been slandered.

you probably would

 

[RobAllan]

In the realm of general public opinion the Patriots are guilty of anything they are accused of from Cameragate onward. There needs be no validity to the claim. There was never a chance and it's not going to change this generation. It's done.

 

[mgteich]

In the realm of general public opinion the Patriots are guilty of anything they are accused of from Cameragate onward. There needs be no validity to the claim. There was never a chance and it's not going to change this generation. It's done.

I also think that it's done. However, Brady will go through the motions.

Almost all of the public agrees that the patriots bends the rules, and does a good job of takes as advantage of the rules. This goes back to the snow plow game and Belichick's injury/non-injury reports. A recent example is the special formations that Belichick used last season. Some of the public applauds the patriots for such actions; many do not.

And then we have cameras and deflated footballs. Some view this as an example of the patriots doing what everyone does. Some think of these being the same category of piping in noise, or texting during the game. Both of these drew harsh punishment from the league.

Viewing this from outside, at best one supports the patriots for doing all they can to win, including occasionally bending the rules. At worst, the public considers some of these transgressions as "cheating" and worthy of severe punishment.
============
As patriot fans, we seem to see no "pattern of behavior". I would think that the obvious should be the case.

 

[#12]

I think your optimism is unjustified. They certainly never changed the narrative on Spygate.

People have already downplayed Spygate, when they speak about Coach B. It has not stopped anyone from considering him to be in the argument of GOAT. Not the case in 2007, when some were even questioning whether he should be in the HOF, first ballot. And that was a very different circumstance, as there was no doubt about the violation of the rule occurring.

Here, there is nothing definitive. This easily refuted report will not stand the test of time. It hasn't even been a week and the voices criticizing it are starting to gain ground. Brady will make his move once the NFL has acted fully.

 

[Jim Colclough fan]

I think your optimism is unjustified. They certainly never changed the narrative on Spygate. I just watched the news this morning on a major network and its proven the Patriots deflated balls. Had Brady or Kraft held a press conference and pointed out the gauge switcheroo then the news would have to address his points.

The fact is the Wells report is not going to trial, it was the trial. And the Patriots never even submitted a defense. They can try to sway the public, but thus far the Patriots have proven themselves completely incompetent at that.

They can try to attack the processes of the NFL, but that's not going to change the fact that Wells opinion is guilt, and the whole world believes it. Maybe after drawn out legal battles they can get the punishment removed, probably after it's been served and Brady is retiring.

I think you guys need to come to terms with the fact that Brady will pass on his deathbed with most people thinking he cheated just like BB will. Neither of those things are just, but justice doesn't always prevail, especially in public opinion. And part of the problem is that like you guys, they thought justice and truth would prevail, and that the public would care about the details more than the headlines.

Totally understand your point - well written.

Immediately prior to the Superbowl this Deflategate narrative began to change & the media began looking at the whole picture instead of the leaked snippets they were fed. At that point we saw the harshest critics begin to soften and the public became dis-interested. Logic started prevailing

Believe the same cycle will take place now. The Wells Report will get torn apart by many intelligent people and their statements will be made public. We can probably agree; this investigation has been a joke and there isn't anything they can substantiate re' Tom Brady. Believe over the next few weeks the narrative will change again, the critics will soften and the public will lose interest.

 

[mgteich]

As an aside, do you think that Brady couldn't tell the balls were deflated? Do you really believe that Brady never told anyone how he liked the balls? Of course, what the patriots did was no different from what other teams did. Is that a defense under league rules, or even before a District Court?

At best, the penalty might be considered to severe if the league has reason to believe that others were doing the same, and didn't punish anyone else.

 

[5thRing-Hunt]

Brady said the other day that he will make a statement about deflate gate once the punishment has been handed down. Brady needs to make a strong statement about his innocence and love of football. Then he needs to win 1 or 2 more super bowls. If he retires with 5 or 6 Super Bowls deflate gate won't matter in public opinion.

Nothing would be better than for Brady to win the 50th Super Bowl after all of this.

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

Totally understand your point - well written.

Immediately prior to the Superbowl this Deflategate narrative began to change & the media began looking at the whole picture instead of the leaked snippets they were fed. At that point we saw the harshest critics begin to soften and the public became dis-interested. Logic started prevailing

Believe the same cycle will take place now. The Wells Report will get torn apart by many intelligent people and their statements will be made public. We can probably agree; this investigation has been a joke and there isn't anything they can substantiate re' Tom Brady. Believe over the next few weeks the narrative will change again, the critics will soften and the public will lose interest.

I'd love to be wrong.

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

As an aside, do you think that Brady couldn't tell the balls were deflated?

No I don't think he could tell, and I don't think they were deflated. Maybe in a room when comparing two balls he could guess one is 1psi or more difference but during a game with 300lb lineman trying to kill him I find it highly unlikely he would notice something barely readable even with a gauge. 3 or 4 psi difference sure. But let's not forget Brady and every other QB ever played with balls significantly lower in zer0 degree games, yet nobody, including the NFL ever realized such huge sways in pressure were common. So now we expect Brady noticed something nobody else ever noticed? And not even a huge swing like in cold weather but a moderate change. I don't buy it at all.

Do you really believe that Brady never told anyone how he liked the balls?

Sure, I like the balls at 12.5. If you want to go with more than I think you need evidence. He complained a ball was 16 psi and told them to take the rule book to the refs. We must be in bizarro world if Brady telling someone to follow the rules is evidence he wants to break the rules.

And he probably never even thought about the fact that they go up or down in weather either. In games in MIA they could have been 14.0 or more. But more importantly it doesn't matter if Brady took out a billboard saying he wants the balls at 10.0. The equipment guys may not care, and even if they did care it doesn't mean they planned to change them post-check. And even if they did plan to alter them you still need evidence it happened. So far that evidence is that the balls were at the pressure expected and some guy took a piss.

This case is the evidence of the gaps. They found nothing so the evidence must be in the calls we didn't hear, the texts we didn't see, and the room we don't have on tape for 90 seconds. So before we even get to Brady's involvement, or Mcnally's we need a body.

You don't find motive then assume there was a crime, you find a crime and look for motive. Thus far I dont see a crime.

Of course, what the patriots did was no different from what other teams did. Is that a defense under league rules, or even before a District Court?

At best, the penalty might be considered to severe if the league has reason to believe that others were doing the same, and didn't punish anyone else.

I don't think league penalties have anything to do with reality. It's whatever satiates the mob.

 

[tom444]

The court of public opinion ship has sailed. Brady and the Patriots lost and Goodell won. And he won without the truth on his side, which just shows how poorly this was handled.

That's why I think it's funny people think Kraft is playing the long game. As if getting some arbitration lawyer to not suspend Brady is anything but a phyrric victory. That story will be on page 72 of the paper and nobody will believe it, much less care.

There will never again be wall to wall national coverage of this situation at the most watched event in the world. Reporters were chomping at the bit for the Patriots to give them something, anything and they gave them nothing. Goodell gave them leaks and misinformation. He completely dictated the conversation from day one. Opinions are made, it's over.

The Patriots decided to respect the process. The process is the punishment.

I agree with most of this except: "As if getting some arbitration lawyer to not suspend Brady is anything but a phyrric victory. That story will be on page 72 of the paper and nobody will believe it, much less care"

If Brady receives a game, or a multiple game, suspension, and it's overturned in arbitration, it will be more prominently displayed, than buried. That will be big news.

 

[BigPeteG]

Brady is waiting for the punishment, IMHO. When it comes down he will
1) Appeal it.
2) If/when appeal is denied he will sue for defamation.

Maybe a legal expert will disagree - but the case for Brady and defamation is pretty strong. People talk about the tough standard but haven't really glanced at the law - it hits all the basics namely that:

Someone made a statement; that statement was published; the statement caused you injury; the statement was false; and the statement did not fall into a privileged category. -

See more at: http://injury.findlaw.com/torts-and...tion-law-the-basics.html#sthash.kZ7BoIS4.dpuf

Honestly I would be surprised if Brady didn't sue.. Commish let his ego overwhelm his brain, IMHO. Even if Brady did do it - they have nothing. And they acted on that nothing.

 

[Fencer]

Brady is waiting for the punishment, IMHO. When it comes down he will
1) Appeal it.
2) If/when appeal is denied he will sue for defamation.

Maybe a legal expert will disagree - but the case for Brady and defamation is pretty strong. People talk about the tough standard but haven't really glanced at the law - it hits all the basics namely that:

Someone made a statement; that statement was published; the statement caused you injury; the statement was false; and the statement did not fall into a privileged category. -

See more at: http://injury.findlaw.com/torts-and...tion-law-the-basics.html#sthash.kZ7BoIS4.dpuf

Honestly I would be surprised if Brady didn't sue.. Commish let his ego overwhelm his brain, IMHO. Even if Brady did do it - they have nothing. And they acted on that nothing.

There's a technicality here complicating the discussion.

• The natural course of events would lead to a court case establishing Brady's right to an independent arbitrator.
• That natural course of events could take long enough that Brady missed games due to suspension.
• Thus, Brady's opening salvo might be focused on the getting the NFL to cave on that point and agree immediately to an independent arbitrator for his appeal.

As bonuses, such an angle of attack:

• Would at its core include accusations of NFL bias.
• Could include the calling out of falsehoods by Goodell and others. They would presumably dismiss these as innocent misstatements, but that could give him a lot of cover for whatever misstatement(s) he made in connection with knowing McNally and so on.

It could also include any particularly bad parts of the Wells Report "analysis", with the spin "This is so egregiously stupid that it couldn't have been an innocent error."

 

[Jackson 2]

How much $ will it take for the NFL (through TMZ, maybe) to convince McNally that maybe Tommy Boy actually DID tell him to deflate those balls? This is something I worry about.

Why did you refer to him as Tommy Boy? Just curious.

 

[#12]

How much $ will it take for the NFL (through TMZ, maybe) to convince McNally that maybe Tommy Boy actually DID tell him to deflate those balls? This is something I worry about.

Then he would be completely contradicting his testimony with Wells, and TB would have a clear cut case of defamation.

 

[NashuaPats]

As an aside, do you think that Brady couldn't tell the balls were deflated? Do you really believe that Brady never told anyone how he liked the balls? Of course, what the patriots did was no different from what other teams did. Is that a defense under league rules, or even before a District Court?

At best, the penalty might be considered to severe if the league has reason to believe that others were doing the same, and didn't punish anyone else.

There's no evidence the balls were even deflated. If you go by the Logo gauge (the one Anderson thinks he used) the balls were as they were supposed to be. At worst they were .3 to .4 underinflated if you go by the non Logo gauge. Even still that calculation uses maybe a dozen guesses and assumptions (many working against the Pats).

Do you really think a QB can tell the difference between a 12.1 ball and a 12.5 ball during a cool, windy, raining night game? The balls change by that much just by a 6-8 degree F temperature change. The NFL officials' gauges weren't even in sync better than that.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Back in September of 2008 I was living in Maryland. I was watching the Patriots season opener at a sports bar near a college packed with Ravens and Jets fans. When Brady went down with his ACL tear, the entire bar erupted in cheers, roars and applause.

Disgusting. Sure you weren't watching Gladiators?

 

[Rob0729]

Anything short of saving a dozen kittens at a bottom of a well, I can't see how Brady will win back the public. Even if the Wells report gets discredited and Goodell is exposed, Brady will always be guilty to most of a America.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I also think that it's done. However, Brady will go through the motions.

Almost all of the public agrees that the patriots bends the rules, and does a good job of takes as advantage of the rules. This goes back to the snow plow game and Belichick's injury/non-injury reports. A recent example is the special formations that Belichick used last season. Some of the public applauds the patriots for such actions; many do not.

And then we have cameras and deflated footballs. Some view this as an example of the patriots doing what everyone does. Some think of these being the same category of piping in noise, or texting during the game. Both of these drew harsh punishment from the league.

Viewing this from outside, at best one supports the patriots for doing all they can to win, including occasionally bending the rules. At worst, the public considers some of these transgressions as "cheating" and worthy of severe punishment.
============
As patriot fans, we seem to see no "pattern of behavior". I would think that the obvious should be the case.

Using the snow plow game to support your argument is a stretch.

I agree. The Pats will never shake the label. Brady is guilty by association.

With that said, the only way he recovers some of his image is by exposing and destroying Goodell and the Wells Report for the frauds that they are.

Sitting back and doing nothing makes it worse.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Maybe a legal expert will disagree - but the case for Brady and defamation is pretty strong. People talk about the tough standard but haven't really glanced at the law - it hits all the basics namely that:

Someone made a statement; that statement was published; the statement caused you injury; the statement was false; and the statement did not fall into a privileged category.

For a public figure (like Brady) the latter part of that sentence is essentially modified to read "the statement was false and it was published with the knowledge it was false or with a reckless disregard as to whether it was true or false".

Also remember that statements of opinion are not libelous. So if Wells puts down a bunch of true facts and then says "these facts lead me to believe it is more probable than not that Brady knew what was going on", that's not libel.

Also, at least as of 1990 (dunno if the law has changed) several of the federal Circuit Courts of Appeal have rejected the concept of defamation by insinuation: http://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2870&context=flr

 

[#12]

Why are we all so concerned about public opinion anyways?

Trust, Tom has a group of people who are paid to have this "public opinion" down to a literal science. They have a strong case behind them. There will be a push back. If there will still be idiots in the aftermath who scream JEALOUSgate .. who really cares? None of that kept people from giving him his due after he won the Superbowl this year. And it won't stop them from doing the same this season when he returns.