How much influence do gambling interests have on Football?

[FredFromDartmouth]

Sometimes I feel as if this is the 900 pound gorilla in the closet that management is trying to ignore. All the other issues that Goodell spends a lot of time with such as endzone celebrations are fluff while ignoring the monster issue that could wreck football.

Think about how much is bet on football and how much refs are paid. The legal amount bet on super bowls is about 90 million per game; that is just what Vegas is declaring. The illegal amount must be much higher. NFL referees average 27K per year. You do the math. Not only is there a huge monetary incentive but many of the big gambling concerns are thugs and would be very very unhappy if their team does not cover if you know what I mean.

It is very easy for the refs to change the outcome of a game (despite what that football sage Mike Felger has to say). All they have to do is call holding penatly or PI during a crucial play; holding takes place on all plays and the enforcement of PI is very spotty. Then there was Lions loss to the Bears this year.

I think that there is a very good reason why there are so many upsets in the NFL (better betting payoff) and so many times that one team anomalously racks up a lot of crucial penalties. There is also a good reason there is such a big turnover in refs.

Sometimes if seems as if the whole NFL is just a shame for the betting interests. Certainly would appear that NBA is that way; why not NFL?

 

[A.C Vegas]

this isn't the 1910's and 20's the gambling intersts don't have the poower they did back then.

Also with the internet message boards like this Twitter and the things like that is a Ref tried to "fix" a game it would be exposed insanely quick

 

[CheeseMonkeys]

Well... I'd like to not know that the NFL is fixed. I don't think that is the case, I think the refs just occasionally make ****ty calls.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

this isn't the 1910's and 20's the gambling intersts don't have the poower they did back then.

Also with the internet message boards like this Twitter and the things like that is a Ref tried to "fix" a game it would be exposed insanely quick

I'm not so sure about that. Look at the Tim Donaghy situation in the NBA. That got detected because of an FBI wiretap into an unrelated matter. I remember attending a talk given by an NFL official a few years ago and he mentioned how they are always accompanied by NFL security when they arrive in a city to do a game and there are extensive background checks ( credit checks) and they are constantly being investigated to ensure that there is nothing askew in their personal lives (e.g. financial difficulties) or associates that might affect their judgment or make them susceptible to gamblers.

 

[mcsully]

Sure it can happen. And to say "the gambling interests aren't what they were" is pretty obtuse. Your aware that gambling illegal and more often legal is handled by the mob. Go read up on off shore betting..



While I don't believe it's true I don't believe it's far fetched.

 

[Nikolai]

I'm not so sure about that. Look at the Tim Donaghy situation in the NBA.

Apples to oranges. Though NFL refs are gaining more control over the outcome of a game, it still does not approach the influence that NBA refs have.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Apples to oranges. Though NFL refs are gaining more control over the outcome of a game, it still does not approach the influence that NBA refs have.

The control is more subtle but is definitely still there. Holding penalties are the sneakiest way to change the outcome of a game (or cover the spread). I am always suspicious when I hear that such and such team had a inordinate amount of penalties in a close game.

There definitely seems to be an "invisible hand" in the football world.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

I think that one sure sign that NFL games are fixed is the fact the Felger says they are not.

As far as the NFL watching the ref's income and debts etc. maybe this explains why there is such a turnover. There are other less pleasant ways to influence a ref than money and perks.

 

[spacecrime]

Sometimes I feel as if this is the 900 pound gorilla in the closet that management is trying to ignore. All the other issues that Goodell spends a lot of time with such as endzone celebrations are fluff while ignoring the monster issue that could wreck football.

Think about how much is bet on football and how much refs are paid. The legal amount bet on super bowls is about 90 million per game; that is just what Vegas is declaring. The illegal amount must be much higher. NFL referees average 27K per year. You do the math. Not only is there a huge monetary incentive but many of the big gambling concerns are thugs and would be very very unhappy if their team does not cover if you know what I mean.

It is very easy for the refs to change the outcome of a game (despite what that football sage Mike Felger has to say). All they have to do is call holding penatly or PI during a crucial play; holding takes place on all plays and the enforcement of PI is very spotty. Then there was Lions loss to the Bears this year.

I think that there is a very good reason why there are so many upsets in the NFL (better betting payoff) and so many times that one team anomalously racks up a lot of crucial penalties. There is also a good reason there is such a big turnover in refs.

Are you saying that the upsets in the NFL are due to refs fixing those games?

I sincerely doubt that. Even in the NBA, where calls are mostly judgement calls, they have not shown wisdespread ref fixing of games. The NFL goes out of its way to remove judgement calls and make it clear what should have been called. Examples are offensive pass interference (stiff arm = penalty), tuck rule (non-tuck = no penalty), the Delphin-Steeler fumble (you may not like the call, but the rules are very clear and the refs made the right call according to the rule. You might not like the call, but it was made according to the rules, rules designed to prevent what you are claiming is happening.

Also, not only are all calls based on physical parameters not on intent, but the NFL reviews all calls and tracks refs on wrong calls made.

Clearly the NBA did not do this.

Sometimes if seems as if the whole NFL is just a shame for the betting interests. Certainly would appear that NBA is that way; why not NFL?

Well, as I said, the NFL tracks ref calls and the NBA doesn't, but what kind of logical arguement says, "This guy did it, so therefore that guy did it."

Just out of curiousity, what games have all those incorrect calls being made against one team that resulted in an upset?

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Sometimes if seems as if the whole NFL is just a shame for the betting interests. Certainly would appear that NBA is that way; why not NFL?

After every NFL game, the referees are also evaluated and every call is reviewed by the higher-ups. Coaches also have some discretion to challenge specific calls.

The NBA situation is different since they don't really review the referee performances as often as the NFL. They also allow referees to discriminate against players (and actually encourage it), so stars always get extra calls that regular players do not.