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Historic 2012 Draft for Pats?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by BlitzFritz, May 1, 2012.

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  1. BlitzFritz

    BlitzFritz Rookie

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    All I can say at this point is WOW, the more I think about this draft. I wonder if others feel the same way.

    1. End of targeting the 2nd Round for quantity. Clearly new thinking at work in Foxboro on using 1st round picks, the rookie 1st round 5 year contracts etc. One player taken in 2nd round (vs likely 3 players in my mind)

    2. Scheme shift in D now bovious and complete. Last year, we saw BB create an kind of sub-package featuring light DEs and pure pass rushers. (Guys who arent really Vrabel, McGinest type OLBs.) Jones and Bequette are really intriguing. And Hightower as a Clay Matthews put him anywhere guy.

    3. Five impact players taken for the Defense. Can't say for sure, but we may look back on this 2012 draft in AWE that he took 5 guys on D who start and make plays. Two DEs, one ILB/pass rusher, one safety, one CB.

    I tend toward optimism, and know point 3 is conjecture. However, I am stunned at the quality that BB managed to rake in.

    Points 1 and 2 are less debatable in my mind.

    So, will this be looked back upon as a Historic Draft? And a turning point to the next Great Run?

    Thoughts?

    -- FRITZ
  2. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I can say without question that this will go down, without a doubt, as the best draft the Patriots ever had in 2012.

    Come on man. I'm still waiting for that brutal all-world team anchored by Damien Woody and Eugene Chung.

    You just don't know yet. Yes, of course we could all look back at every pick achieving upside expectations. Or we could look back at a year of busts.

    Time will tell. Right now I love every one of 'em. Root for your binky, hope for the best, get giddy if you want, but this is now, that will be then.
  3. patsfan-1982

    patsfan-1982 Rookie

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    they did a good job of filling out the roster that about all i can say without ever seeing them play. in 20+ years if at lest two of the player in this draft class make it to the HOF then it will be Historic for now im just hopeing they make the defense a lil better
  4. Triumph

    Triumph Rookie

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    Nobody knows.

    People on this board were dancing on the roof when Maroney, Chad Jackson and Butler were picked.
  5. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You do sense that there is a philosophical shift underway that probably has to do with making the SB with a far cry from the classically Belichickian veteran base 3-4 defense coming off a lockout... As if figuring out how to compensate in 2011 shifted the focus from gradually and often painfully struggling to recreate what we used to do exceptionally well to exploring a variety of things we could be built to do exceptionally well instead...
  6. BlitzFritz

    BlitzFritz Rookie

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    Exactly. My main point is that the draft is historic in terms of the philosophical change. Unclear the exact motivators.

    The draft quality is more speculative, and may or may not be historic. Tho I find it well above average in potential for the past 5 years. Agree that only time will tell.

    -- FRITZ
  7. scott99

    scott99 Rookie

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    I think you can't look at ONE year's draft. It helps when a team strings together 4 or 5 good drafts in a row like the patriots did in 1973-77. Those drafts created a very good to great team.

    In 1973: John Hannah G (HOF), Sam Cunningham RB, Daryl Stingley WR, Ray Hamilton DL
    In 1974 : Steve Nelson ILB, Andy Johnson RB, Sam Hunt ILB
    In 1975: Russ Francis TE, Steve Grogan QB,
    In 1976: Michael Haynes CB (HOF), Pete Brock C, Tim Fox S
    In 1977: Ray Clayborn CB, Stanley Morgan WR

    Now if BB can draft like that for 5 straight years, then that's historic. I believe the 2010-2012 drafts are some of BB's best drafting since his becoming a Patriot's Coach/GM/Dictator.
    Last edited: May 1, 2012
  8. Uncle Rico

    Uncle Rico Rookie

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    #70 Jersey

    Another example:
    1993: Drew Bedlsoe, Troy Brown
    1994: Willie McGinest
    1995: Ty Law, Ted Johnson, Curtis Martin
    1996: Terry Glenn, Lawyer Milloy, Tedi Bruschi
    1997: well, never mind


    And the current run, which shows potential:
    2008: Jerod Mayo
    2009: Patrick Chung, Sebastian Vollmer
    2010: Devin McCourty, Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Brandon Spikes, Zoltan Mesko
    2011: Solder, Dowling, Ridley, Vereen
    2012: Jones, Hightower ... Bequette, Dennard
  9. CheeseMonkeys

    CheeseMonkeys Rookie

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    All I can say is that I've never been so excited to watch this defense play. Last year I would cringe at the thought of our D getting out there when we need a stop, but this year I think we can feel good about making a stop when we need it. Man, this is going to be an exciting season. We have probably the best offense and this draft just made our defense easily top 10.
  10. Ivan

    Ivan Rookie

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    lmao, but you "would have known" had Belichick used the first pick for a WR and traded down with the other first, then Belichick would have destroyed the patriots future and cost them any chance at a Super Bowl ever.

    Amazing how you can crap all over them for not doing what you want and then when he does you say "meh," you're ridiculous.
  11. scott99

    scott99 Rookie

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    Wow, I've been critical of BB's drafts, but that really is a nice amount of talent right there. 4 have been to the Pro Bowl already (Mayo, Vollmer, McCourty & Gronkowski) and it should have been 5 (Hernandez last year).
  12. Triumph

    Triumph Rookie

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    LOLZ Maroney and Jackson.

    Quit sniveling axxclown.

    Get this: these guys are paid big money to choose the right players. They deserve criticism when they fail to deliver not axx kissing from likes of people like you.
  13. ZoisKing

    ZoisKing Rookie

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    Hopefully a couple from this draft can add to that number soon. Also, Hernandez not making it as tight end was just dumb, but the Pro Bowl isn't a great measuring stick anyway.
  14. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I alway s looks at the draft as a PART of the ofseason roster building process. Currently it looks like a great offseason overall with both untis being potentially better than last year. Still a few questions about Waters, Carter and so on.

    Very excited for camp this year.
  15. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    ...and offseason -- the whole roster, all 53 -- is only PART of the ultimate prize, the SB. The cruel reality is that the million and one random factors (the first one that comes to mind is injury) always await every team going for that ultimate prize. But the goal of offseason is to get that best 53 you possibly can on the field, including the development tier of the 53. Yeah I like what I see too, and can't wait to see what comes out in september once Bill's been back to the lab :)
  16. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Rookie

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    I like this draft simply because he did what I've been harping about for the last 5 years. I won't even be critical if these guys bust because it was what had to be done.

    The defense did not falter because of the DL because look at who they had in 2001

    The secondary did not falter because look at who they had in 2004.

    When you see the tapes of success, the consistent factor was the insane level of play achieved by the LB group over that time. LBs dictate the succes of BB schemes. The guys they drafted are relative students of the game. What I see is the hope that they just drafted mcginest bruschi and vrable........a huge stretch, but you gotta try
  17. randomk1

    randomk1 Rookie

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    Way way premature. Personally I'll believe it when i see it even though i am very excited about what we have. The 2011 D (especially the secondary with the future HoF-er McCourty,DROY Dowling,Comeback player of the year Bodden) looked very promising aswell.

    What a letdown that turned out to be.

    If this D just becomes more effective at getting off the field and applying some goddamn passrush when we need it i'll be happy.
  18. DaBronxPats14

    DaBronxPats14 Rookie

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    I definitely feel a whole better than I did before draft nite. Clearly our priorities were on D side of line. Pick ups are promising with alot of potential. I'm lookin forward to seeing our revamped D & youth added in.
    I still would have liked to added an above avg/shut down (if any exist now) CB. Hopefully R I Dowling will bounce back, wanna see him at full strength.
  19. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    You need to start with a horrible team to have the picks and the space to develop that many players. Although he was a couple of years removed, I have to credit the great Clive Rush for making that possible.
  20. BlitzFritz

    BlitzFritz Rookie

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    another perspective on the sharp change in strategy from BB:

    - he feels that the roster is now very deep on both sides of the ball. he needs more playmakers....so quality or quantity. (very different from the trade back for value strategy)

    - just looking for 2-4 guys who can start.

    fascinating stuff. the NEP Draft Room is unpredictable and of course inscutible.

    for whatever reason, 2012 was astonishingly different from the past 5 years.

    -- FRITZ
  21. Ivan

    Ivan Rookie

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    Lmao "assclown?"

    This from the moron who claimed the Patriots had not won a SB in 10 years and said they didn't win a championship in 2011 when they obviously won the AFC.

    Listen up buckwheat there is no less knowledgeable football fan on this site than you and tha t has been proven by your own idiotic words. Your best bet is to shut your pie hole so that you don't make yourself look even worse than you already have .

    The Patriots did what everyone has wanted for years and only a whiner like you would b. tch cry and moan about it. Keep up your misery, you suck.
  22. pdangle

    pdangle Rookie

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    Hell yeah, I thinks it's a great draft. And yes, different than all our others recently. And yes, without question, some fundamentals have changed like the rookie cap. But as far as a different approach, I don't know. I think BB is ready to move up to grab players he wants like this every year, but usually those players just aren't there. Especially these last few draft, as there has been a premium placed on these types of players. This season for what ever reason there were more defensive playmakers us fans love in the draft, and more importantly, reasonably attainable. It seems the other teams had more pressing needs; maybe because they grabbed their playmakers in the last few drafts while BB held back as he had evaluated the talent as thin. This year, who knows, maybe the cards just fell right for a dominant defensive draft. Whew, not a moment too soon. I just don't know if BB could handle another year of draft criticism from this and other messageboards. :D
    Last edited: May 4, 2012
  23. PatsFanSince74

    PatsFanSince74 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    ...and would have wondered why the Pats had wasted a sixth round pick on a scrawny QB who couldn't even make starter on his College team...
  24. PatsFanSince74

    PatsFanSince74 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Who knows or could know at this point? Depends on how the picks turn out.

    It will be considered a "great" draft if three or so of the picks have long careers as impact starters with multiple trips to the Pro Bowl and All Pro teams.

    It will be a considered a "darn good" draft if two or three of the picks are able to start for three or more years each.

    But, I feel safe in saying that it will be considered "historic" only if one of the late round picks turns out to be the equivalent of Brady at his position (i.e., one of the Goats at his job).
  25. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This is being done with late round draft picks which is even more significant...

    This team is being rebuilt on the fly, and we are constantly retooling and developing competition, rather than sitting still...

    Interestingly Scott Pioli is no longer the man, coincidence???
  26. betterthanthealternative

    betterthanthealternative Rookie

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    I've been thinking along the same lines, and wondered about point #1 before the draft, particularly given the few roster spots that appear to be open give the active FA off season the team had. I'm not so sure the evolution of the D should be called a scheme "shift" as much as the capability to be more flexible.
  27. BlitzFritz

    BlitzFritz Rookie

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    Interesting....so you feel it was as much a matter of the right players being available this year, as it was the new rookie salary structure etc. I had always assumed these types of players were there (eg clay matthews) but he was just thinking about his strategy differently (quantity over quality ).

    good stuff. thanks!

    -- FRITZ
  28. BlitzFritz

    BlitzFritz Rookie

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    hadnt thought of that....
  29. BlitzFritz

    BlitzFritz Rookie

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    right. i think it could be better characterized as Scheme Emphasis -- a much stronger emphasis on the sub defense over the base. clearly he gets it now. maybe even a year or two later than he wishes he did!

    -- FRITZ
  30. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    It may be a bit of a stretch, BF, but I think I would take it one step further and say that versatility and the ability to play both one gap and two gap in the same play may have also come into the picture.

    Versatile players, especially on defense have always been important, but looking at this yr's defensive roster one could take that a step farther than we've normally thought.

    There's a lot of versatility in many of the players here. For starters, I would include:

    DL--The ability to play both DE and DT. This would include the likes of Wilfork, G.Warren, Fanane, etc.

    LB--There is the potential to mix and match players to be the 'elephant' as in Jones, Ninkovich, and Hightower. Spikes, Mayo, and Fletcher can be moved around to fit the scheme, depending upon assignment and specific play call.

    CB/S--We have the potential to move players on the starting 'real' outside CB position, or in the slot. There is also the versatility to move some CB's and S's around to mix and match, a la Moore, Allen, and McCourty in subs or even full-time.

    I think the experiment with a 40 front defense, combined with the exceptional scheme of some players 2 gapping with others being responsible for solelyng shooting the gap have resulted in many 'other' possibilities for the upcoming year.

    I also think the versatility in the secondary became evident late in the season, which helped the passing defense in some aspects. There's also the ability for players to play press man coverage (Dowling, not sure about Dennard) and others performing better in zone schemes, with the ability to keep a solid secondary no matter what injuries occur.

    I think the selection of versatile players came into play, and hopefully we can see this pay off with at least 2-3 solid contributors. If I had to choose this yr's draft as being 'historic' vs last yr's, I may go with last yr's as of now (obviously, until we can see some development). The 2010 draft may end up being the best of all 3, only time will tell.
    Last edited: May 6, 2012
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