Have the idiots conquered Patriots Nation?

[PatsFanInVa]

Ju

You are right.

But, the criticism must be focused, specific,and accurate. If it meets those tests, it's not negitive.

Far too many people will go emotional, embellish, and will broad brush everything. Then they go on and speculate, wildly in many cases, and have very little, if any, accurate information to back them up.

:yeahthat:
What he said.

When people get pissed at "sky is falling" types, it's because too often they're approaching the "problems" of a 2-1 start with "bench Brady" or "fire Belichik..." it's nuts. It's like these guys have never seen a down patch -- and look at the record!!! We're not playing our best football, granted... but this is NOT a "down patch." It does show signs of going that way, but "bench Brady"??? I mean, what do we need to do if we lose by 24 points, form a firing squad???

To the team this is business, gentlemen, and while we "take care of business" by typing on bulletin boards they're out in practice or going over tape, or for that matter trying to get something injured to work by Sunday (as they do all over the NFL,) fighting that day to day battle to improve what they do.

I see this every day in business... it's not one perfect hiring and then everything works better. It's not one huge change in paradigm, and then everything works better. YOu might need people drinking the kool-aid -- but then the koolaid drinkers get down to work, get and stay focused, and do it day in day out, week in week out, etc.

The same guys complaining about the lack of continuity when we let free agents go are probably whining that we should bench the best guys we have left.

Here's an idea... let 'em do their jobs, including BB, Brady, and the rest. Criticize if you want but as pointed out above, if we expect focus from these guys for five gruelling painful months, maybe we should commit ourselves to focusing enough to be coherent when we point out problems or raise solutions.

For the record, yeah I AM more of a "my team right or wrong" guy, especially living around Redskins fans. Know why? They don't have that attitude. Why would they? They lose every year. They love to speculate, to call this player and that player a bum, and especially, more than anything, they love to dog Dan Snyder. Why? He goes out and spends PAST the cap every year, from what I can tell, buying every free agent in the league. And it NEVER WORKS.

Of COURSE Redskins fans have more right to criticize their team... their team is usually a FAILURE. You know where the gap must be smallest? Houston. I give Houston fans 100% latitude in trashing their team. Get it?

I don't jump on posters usually, but maybe keeping it within reason isn't too much to ask.

PFnV

 

[Miguel]

Unless I missed something this sounds like a clause that was inserted to insure a team doesn't abuse the process - as say the Vikings did under their previous ownership for a number of years when Red routinely rolled over double digit cap he personally was never intending to spend because he was planning to cash in and sell the franchise.

But is would not be a deterrent to a well run team like the Pats judiciously using LTBE's. In fact rolling over more than what currently remains of their cap this season and upwards of $12M of what for them would then be a $117M cap in 2007 would seem to be well within the relm of remaining compliant. And that's without even getting into the bucking the agent/NFLPA advice mode.

All I know is that the NFLPA felt so strongly about these phony LTBE clauses that they amended their agent regulations. I now expect the NFLPA to fight the insertion of these phony LTBE incentives. As far as I can tell, the Pats have not yet spend $85.68 million (84% of $102 million) in cash this year so I would expect the NFLPA to advise Patriot players not to agree to the insertion.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Brady and Belichick don't get a "free pass" just because they've been so good.

For the 10,000th time - It is NOT being "DISLOYAL" to essentially "boo" players or coaches through negative responses. It ISN'T.

They AREN'T off limits! When people criticizing Brady, they're not critizing everything he's done thus far. They're criticizing what THEY'VE SEEN in the PAST THREE GAMES.

Spoken like a card carrying member of the I'm a real fan but WTF have you done for me lately wing of Patriots Nation.

It is always disloyal to boo. IT IS.

They are absolutely not off limits to criticism - BB runs this organization on a foundation of accountability. But for delusional arm chair GM's to be lambasting everything from their core financial management strategy and team building philosophy to their QB's body language in week three of their 7th season with this organization when 5 of those 7 seasons have resulted in playoff appearances and 3 of them ended with parades is just reactionary BS emanating from fair weather fans who are hardly qualified to even attempt to make such assessments.

I guess that is a mark that this forum has moved beyond the relm of rational and intelligent discussion of all things Patriot and into the relm of spewing unsubstantiated opinion - just like the that spewed on the garbage strewn yahoo boards many of us chose not to participate in. We used to delve here and try to figure out why they did what they did or what they were likely to do next. Now we are innundated with demanding and arrogant posters (kind of like generations of mini-NEMS) who are so deluded they believe they know better what they should have done not to mention what they better do PDQ or else.

It would be a hoot of an exercise to sit a few dozen of these beligerant geniuses down in a room with Belioli and the QB to hash out their mounting grievances, but a ***** to clean up all the poopie on the floor after that trio finished with them. :bricks:

 

[pats1]

Spoken like a card carrying member of the I'm a real fan but WTF have you done for me lately wing of Patriots Nation.

It is always disloyal to boo. IT IS.

They are absolutely not off limits to criticism - BB runs this organization on a foundation of accountability. But for delusional arm chair GM's to be lambasting everything from their core financial management strategy and team building philosophy to their QB's body language in week three of their 7th season with this organization when 5 of those 7 seasons have resulted in playoff appearances and 3 of them ended with parades is just reactionary BS emanating from fair weather fans who are hardly qualified to even attempt to make such assessments.

I guess that is a mark that this forum has moved beyond the relm of rational and intelligent discussion of all things Patriot and into the relm of spewing unsubstantiated opinion - just like the that spewed on the garbage strewn yahoo boards many of us chose not to participate in. We used to delve here and try to figure out why they did what they did or what they were likely to do next. Now we are innundated with demanding and arrogant posters (kind of like generations of mini-NEMS) who are so deluded they believe they know better what they should have done not to mention what they better do PDQ or else.

It would be a hoot of an exercise to sit a few dozen of these beligerant geniuses down in a room with Belioli and the QB to hash out their mounting grievances, but a ***** to clean up all the poopie on the floor after that trio finished with them. :bricks:

Yet again -

They (the thousands who booed after the first half against Buffalo) were NOT booing TOM BRADY. They were booing Brady's PERFORMANCE.

Two COMPLETELY different things.

If there was a Colts fan standing next to them while they booed the team off the field (essentially saying: "Wake the **** up and play well in the second half!") and was asking who is the better QB: Manning or Brady, the fan would obviously say Brady. Not saying Brady WOULD be disloyalty. Expressing your displeasure with a situation is NOT.

I never said Brady should be benched or Brady is declining or the Pats are done or anything of that nature. I've expressed my displeasure with the way Tom handled himself after the Branch departure. I've expressed my displeasure with the way Tom has played thus far this season. I've expressed my displeasure with those who are too quick to pin the blame on the WRs. I've ALSO expressed my displeasure with those who believe Brady's play is the sole reason the team isn't exactly running smoothly right now. I've expressed my displeasure with those who believe the Pats mismanaged the WR situation and other F.O. decisions.

 

[marty]

:yeahthat:
What he said.

When people get pissed at "sky is falling" types, it's because too often they're approaching the "problems" of a 2-1 start with "bench Brady" or "fire Belichik..." it's nuts. It's like these guys have never seen a down patch -- and look at the record!!! We're not playing our best football, granted... but this is NOT a "down patch." It does show signs of going that way, but "bench Brady"??? I mean, what do we need to do if we lose by 24 points, form a firing squad???

To the team this is business, gentlemen, and while we "take care of business" by typing on bulletin boards they're out in practice or going over tape, or for that matter trying to get something injured to work by Sunday (as they do all over the NFL,) fighting that day to day battle to improve what they do.

I see this every day in business... it's not one perfect hiring and then everything works better. It's not one huge change in paradigm, and then everything works better. YOu might need people drinking the kool-aid -- but then the koolaid drinkers get down to work, get and stay focused, and do it day in day out, week in week out, etc.

The same guys complaining about the lack of continuity when we let free agents go are probably whining that we should bench the best guys we have left.

Here's an idea... let 'em do their jobs, including BB, Brady, and the rest. Criticize if you want but as pointed out above, if we expect focus from these guys for five gruelling painful months, maybe we should commit ourselves to focusing enough to be coherent when we point out problems or raise solutions.

For the record, yeah I AM more of a "my team right or wrong" guy, especially living around Redskins fans. Know why? They don't have that attitude. Why would they? They lose every year. They love to speculate, to call this player and that player a bum, and especially, more than anything, they love to dog Dan Snyder. Why? He goes out and spends PAST the cap every year, from what I can tell, buying every free agent in the league. And it NEVER WORKS.

Of COURSE Redskins fans have more right to criticize their team... their team is usually a FAILURE. You know where the gap must be smallest? Houston. I give Houston fans 100% latitude in trashing their team. Get it?

I don't jump on posters usually, but maybe keeping it within reason isn't too much to ask.

PFnV

Nice Post Va! Agree with you.

It's measured criticism and praise that most of us look for. The extremes are what gets frustrating and makes me stay off the board for days at a time lately!

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Yet again -

They (the thousands who booed after the first half against Buffalo) were NOT booing TOM BRADY. They were booing Brady's PERFORMANCE.

Two COMPLETELY different things.

That's just an attempt to rationalize the behavior. Tom Brady delivers that performance so the two are inexorably entwined. Tom will say he understands the whole fans pay to view a performance and are therefore entitled to express their opinion rationale - but privately that sort of behavior from the whine and cheese segment of this fan base has to piss him off royally. You can hear it in the players voices if you listen whenever the topic is broached. Players here play for each other as teamates as much as anything. The 12th man in the Gillette stands has performed so abyssmally over the last 4+ years it's not hard to imagine any player on this team mulling what it would be like to trade them for a 12th man who performs better.

 

[marty]

Yet again -

They (the thousands who booed after the first half against Buffalo) were NOT booing TOM BRADY. They were booing Brady's PERFORMANCE.

Two COMPLETELY different things.

If I'm standing out on that field, do you think I'm hearing the difference in your boo's?
There's no way I boo this team. I'd sit in disappointed silence, but no way would I boo.

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

I have to agree 100% with MoLewisRocks. Tom Brady is untouchable. Yeah he's having a bad year so far. Call me crazy but it takes more than 4 sub par games in a row to turn on the guy who's gotten the job done for 5 years.

And let's forget any notion that booing is in any way constructive criticism. It is a crass, angry, and borderline hateful display. I'm not above booing; i have no issue with booing the opposition. I can honestly saying that booing my team's players has never occurred to me though.

Bunch of spoiled brats the lot of ya

 

[pats1]

If I'm standing out on that field, do you think I'm hearing the difference in your boo's?
There's no way I boo this team. I'd sit in disappointed silence, but no way would I boo.

The difference?

The players know they're loved and admired throughout New England. Therefore, common sense suggests that 68,000 people wouldn't pay $90 a seat to watch a team they aren't passionate fans about.

And when a percentage of those 68,000 boo, it's not like their sentiments on the player has changed since they walked through the gate. When they come in and when they go out, they'll still support Tom Brady over anyone else with every fiber of their being. But if they don't see Tom Brady performing like the Tom Brady they know and love, and it's most certainly a trend, chances are they're going to boo HIS PERFORMANCE.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

All I know is that the NFLPA felt so strongly about these phony LTBE clauses that they amended their agent regulations. I now expect the NFLPA to fight the insertion of these phony LTBE incentives. As far as I can tell, the Pats have not yet spend $85.68 million (84% of $102 million) in cash this year so I would expect the NFLPA to advise Patriot players not to agree to the insertion.

I read that letter as expressing concern with teams who might use those LTBE's to even get to the cap spending floor, as McCoombs did, and not as a concern that teams who are above that floor already will use it to retain that cap space for the future. That could benefit players the following season while letting it evaporate would benefit no one the NFLPA cares about.

You seem to read it as a cash requirement. I was not aware that any team is under the obligation to spend a cash payroll minimum. And the Pats have been among the cash over cap (payroll) team leaders for the last couple of seasons. And that is something the have nots are desperate to cap much to the chagrin of the NFLPA who wants everybody to spend more cash over cap like their favorite team owner Dan Snyder.

 

[pats1]

I have to agree 100% with MoLewisRocks. Tom Brady is untouchable. Yeah he's having a bad year so far. Call me crazy but it takes more than 4 sub par games in a row to turn on the guy who's gotten the job done for 5 years.

And let's forget any notion that booing is in any way constructive criticism. It is a crass, angry, and borderline hateful display. I'm not above booing; i have no issue with booing the opposition. I can honestly saying that booing my team's players has never occurred to me though.

Bunch of spoiled brats the lot of ya

Nobody save a few whacked-out ones who come to the this forum "are turning on Brady."

"Turning on Brady" would entail no longer supporting him, believing he isn't what he used to be, etc., etc.

You're completely right in saying he's untouchable. NOBODY is giving him the Duane Starks or Monty Beisel treatment. Essentially, the treatment they're giving him falls along the lines of "Hey, Tom! Let's go! Wake up! Get the ball rolling!"

 

[pats1]

Nice Post Va! Agree with you.

It's measured criticism and praise that most of us look for. The extremes are what gets frustrating and makes me stay off the board for days at a time lately!

But see - I completey agree with VA too.

There's nothing more annoying than those who came on the board and had threads like "Should Brady retire?" or "Where's Cassel?"

I HATE those.

I CRITIQUE Brady - whose PERFORMANCE is by all means worthy of criticism thus far. But negatively critiquing Brady's entire career makeup is pure lunacy. It's nearly impossible.

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

Btw, I just mentioned this thread to my girlfriend who watches most Pats games with me but isn't much of a football fan.

Her: Why would anyone boo Tom Brady?

Me: Because he's been pretty bad so far this year.

Her: So?

I couldn't really explain it because I don't understand it, and I figured she didn't really care so I thought there was no need to elaborate. About ten seconds later she chimed in with:

Her: You know, that's the kind of thing I'd expect from Yankees fans.

I couldn't have said it any better myself.

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

You're completely right in saying he's untouchable. NOBODY is giving him the Duane Starks or Monty Beisel treatment. Essentially, the treatment they're giving him falls along the lines of "Hey, Tom! Let's go! Wake up! Get the ball rolling!"

From my vantage point all booing translates to "YOU SUCK." You might find that's a more common view than you realize.

 

[pats1]

From my vantage point all booing translates to "YOU SUCK." You might find that's a more common view than you realize.

And quite simply, Tom Brady DID suck in the first half of the Buffalo game.

 

[PYPER]

:yeahthat:
What he said.

When people get pissed at "sky is falling" types, it's because too often they're approaching the "problems" of a 2-1 start with "bench Brady" or "fire Belichik..." it's nuts. It's like these guys have never seen a down patch -- and look at the record!!! We're not playing our best football, granted... but this is NOT a "down patch." It does show signs of going that way, but "bench Brady"??? I mean, what do we need to do if we lose by 24 points, form a firing squad???

To the team this is business, gentlemen, and while we "take care of business" by typing on bulletin boards they're out in practice or going over tape, or for that matter trying to get something injured to work by Sunday (as they do all over the NFL,) fighting that day to day battle to improve what they do.

I see this every day in business... it's not one perfect hiring and then everything works better. It's not one huge change in paradigm, and then everything works better. YOu might need people drinking the kool-aid -- but then the koolaid drinkers get down to work, get and stay focused, and do it day in day out, week in week out, etc.

The same guys complaining about the lack of continuity when we let free agents go are probably whining that we should bench the best guys we have left.

Here's an idea... let 'em do their jobs, including BB, Brady, and the rest. Criticize if you want but as pointed out above, if we expect focus from these guys for five gruelling painful months, maybe we should commit ourselves to focusing enough to be coherent when we point out problems or raise solutions.

For the record, yeah I AM more of a "my team right or wrong" guy, especially living around Redskins fans. Know why? They don't have that attitude. Why would they? They lose every year. They love to speculate, to call this player and that player a bum, and especially, more than anything, they love to dog Dan Snyder. Why? He goes out and spends PAST the cap every year, from what I can tell, buying every free agent in the league. And it NEVER WORKS.

Of COURSE Redskins fans have more right to criticize their team... their team is usually a FAILURE. You know where the gap must be smallest? Houston. I give Houston fans 100% latitude in trashing their team. Get it?

I don't jump on posters usually, but maybe keeping it within reason isn't too much to ask.

PFnV

I agree with you.

This thread wasn't intended to come down on all forms of criticism. Some forms of criticism are a good thing and vital to the quality of a good message board.

But it depends on the quality of the criticism. There is a HUGE difference between well directed criticism and hysteria.

So my problem with this board really isn't criticism at all. It's the abundance of idiocy. Threads debating whether the Patriots are trying to throw the season and the like.

I mean, what's the big f.cking deal with having 13M left over in cap room. Is it really that hard to understand that Belichick & Pioli planned to spend that money on Branch and Law? Is it really that hard to understand that neither guy was signed b/c both have jerkoff agents with questionable negotiating skills. I mean what was the purpose of Chayut's spouting off to the media if not to piss off our front office and pave a way out of town for Branch.

The point that needs to be understood here is that sometimes things don't go exactly as you have them planned out. Sometimes the plans work, sometimes the plans don't.

The scary part is that we are more than likely going to get KILLED in Cincinnatti. No Wilson, no Hobbs, no Gay.....Chad Jackson is still hobbled. We might get beat by forty points. Can you imagine how bad this board will be.

At some point, when things are really rough, when does the fanbase reach the conclusion that their team is better served by receiving their support instead of their criticisms.

I mean, If the Patriots and Brady play bad, are Belichick and Brady so blind that they actually need us to point it out.

Is it possible that this "piling on" that goes on is actually a bad thing and negatively effects the team's psyche? Is it not equally possible that when a team feels support and love they are more likely to have fun playing for those fans and will in fact play better.

Energy is contagious. It's not uncommon for home teams to feed off of the fans. If the players were flat against denver, maybe the fans were as well. Consider that fact the next time you want to spew nothing but negativity and complaints towards this team.

Look at the Yankees fans and how they treat ARod. Can anyone really deny the effect of causality. Those idiot fans have managed to turn that guy into a basket case. If it can happen to him, it can happen to anyone. I'm not saying it will, just that it can.

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

And quite simply, Tom Brady DID suck in the first half of the Buffalo game.

And he was great for the previous 5 years. Which do you think is more indicative of his ability? Telling your iconic player he sucks isn't one of those things that just goes away... I'll never let any Yankees fan forget that Derek Jeter was booed in the Bronx and I'll never forget that Tom Brady was booed in Foxboro.

Eh, I feel bad for some of you. You'll never know what it's like to cheer a guy while he's down, just to see him pick himself up and turn it around. You'll enjoy his success and start cheering for him again, but it's special to pull for a guy and watch him rebound.

 

[Miguel]

I was not aware that any team is under the obligation to spend a cash payroll minimum.

See Page 3 of
http://www.nflpa.org/pdfs/CBA/2006_CBA_Extension_Term_Sheet.pdf

 

[PATSNUTme]

If I'm standing out on that field, do you think I'm hearing the difference in your boo's?
There's no way I boo this team. I'd sit in disappointed silence, but no way would I boo.

:rocker:You nailed it.

I should have said that booing on our home field is not acceptable critisism.

It gives the other team a lift and does not help the situation at all. Silence is the best form of showing disapproval at our own field.

 

[fgssand]

It's not so much the fact that players, coaches are booed for their performance or decisions that trouble me - it is when certain media folks and fans take out their absolute hatred or jealousy to a level that is totally uncalled for.

Borges, now Felger and the national media jerks that find "sport" in insulting this particular team, is where I find I have the need to attempt to projectile vomit all over their smug smirking facial expressions and teased hair do's.