Gunner

[One-If-By-Sea]

Gunner's focus needs to be on improving at PR and slot, and adding a third facet to his game - I was using Bolden as an example (since that's how he's been around for so long - reliability, doesn't make the mental errors). What that third facet is - who knows.

Got it. Why does he need a third facet? Offensive slot receiver and Special Teams punt returner seems like enough to me.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Yes Gunner is versatile within his physical skill set, but that does not mean he can replace a straight line runner. Gunner might be an Edelman slot guy replacement. He will not be a gunner on special teams, or a running back picking up the blitz, or a wedge buster on special teams - wrong type for all of those positions - maybe in an emergency. I guess I missed your point.

My point on comparing him to Bolden is that Bolden's a guy who can play on O if needed but has mostly been used on STs.

Gunner already does more than return kicks; after all, he made a tackle on the KO immediately after scoring a touchdown!

 

[Chevy]

Got it. Why does he need a third facet? Offensive slot receiver and Special Teams punt returner seems like enough to me.

Just adds to his value.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

My point on comparing him to Bolden is that Bolden's a guy who can play on O if needed but has mostly been used on STs.

Gunner already does more than return kicks; after all, he made a tackle on the KO immediately after scoring a touchdown!

Got it. I think that Guner is all set if he is the primary punt returner and can work his way into slot receiver. He has the quickness and toughness to be a slot receiver, but can he understand the position and catch the ball reliably still has to be understood. He has a lot to learn, maybe with a full training camp he can get there.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Got it. I think that Guner is all set if he is the primary punt returner and can work his way into slot receiver. He has the quickness and toughness to be a slot receiver, but can he understand the position and catch the ball reliably still has to be understood. He has a lot to learn, maybe with a full training camp he can get there.

Before his injury, reports had him as the second-best receiver in camp.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Got it. I think that Guner is all set if he is the primary punt returner and can work his way into slot receiver. He has the quickness and toughness to be a slot receiver, but can he understand the position and catch the ball reliably still has to be understood. He has a lot to learn, maybe with a full training camp he can get there.

That's how Edelman worked his way on the roster. His first preseason game versus Philly, he returned a punt for a TD.. IIRC it was about 5 years ( with some DB work in there as well) before he became full time receiver. His breakthrough game was a playoff game versus Balt after Welker tore his knee up in week 17. 6 catches I think

 

[notex]

Im not sure Gunner has that quickness like an Edelman/Welker or even Cole Beasley type... Maybe he can develop that. To me it was always really apparent that Edelman would be a perfect Welker replacement even when he wasnt playing a ton... I am not sure if I see those same traits in Gunner... I'd LOVE to be wrong on this.

All of that said, we havent seen enough reps (unlike the coaching staff who see him everyday) so I am sure they have a pretty good idea of what he could potentially grow into.

 

[Patjew]

I'll reiterate. In his rookie season, he was behind Welker. Welker was taken out with an injury in the next to last game of the season. JE replaced him in the season finale and had 10 catches for 103 yards and followed that up with 6 catches in his first playoff game.

Yeah, but what did he do since then?

 

[rochrist]

That's how Edelman worked his way on the roster. His first preseason game versus Philly, he returned a punt for a TD.. IIRC it was about 5 years ( with some DB work in there as well) before he became full time receiver. His breakthrough game was a playoff game versus Balt after Welker tore his knee up in week 17. 6 catches I think

That was his rookie year. He has 10 for 103 in the last game of the season and 6 in his first playoff game.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

That was his rookie year. He has 10 for 103 in the last game of the season and 6 in his first playoff game.

But then he had 11 receptions total the next 2 years. It wasn't until year 4 he became a full time receiver and year 5 that he 'broke out'....
The 2 games (week 17 and playoff) were like I said due to Welker's knee injury and IIRC lots of regulars were rested in week 17. Hoyer played the 4th quarter and Pats blew a 27-13 lead..... New England Patriots at Houston Texans - January 3rd, 2010 | Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Im not sure Gunner has that quickness like an Edelman/Welker or even Cole Beasley type... Maybe he can develop that. To me it was always really apparent that Edelman would be a perfect Welker replacement even when he wasnt playing a ton... I am not sure if I see those same traits in Gunner... I'd LOVE to be wrong on this.

All of that said, we havent seen enough reps (unlike the coaching staff who see him everyday) so I am sure they have a pretty good idea of what he could potentially grow into.

3-cone times - Beasley 7.16, Welker 7.09, Gunner 6.88 and Edelman 6.62. So Gunner is quick enough. I think you are wrong on this like you want to be

I agree that Edelman looked quicker than Welker (because he is), and Gunner does not look as quick as Edelman (because he isn't) during his punt returns, but Gunner had the highest punt return average in the NFL in 2020 (for players with 10 or more attempts), and will only get better. Gunner has a unique combination of quickness and vision. So I am sure Gunner can be a slot receiver as he has the natural quickness and the vision needed. Does Gunner know how to read the defense and find the holes like Welker and Edelman? I do not know. Not sure Cam could read a defense after 10 years. Are Gunners hands OK? I do not know. Hopefully it all comes together for him with one more offseason.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

That's how Edelman worked his way on the roster. His first preseason game versus Philly, he returned a punt for a TD.. IIRC it was about 5 years ( with some DB work in there as well) before he became full time receiver. His breakthrough game was a playoff game versus Balt after Welker tore his knee up in week 17. 6 catches I think

I never forget when young players do this. Edelman punt return TD as a rookie. I remember Rondo as a rookie right after a score then stole the inbounds pass and laid it in again. Brady talked about Malcolm Butler making an INT on him in practice that only Richard Sherman had ever done. Sometimes you just know with a guy. Onwenu this year once laid out like Superman for a 2nd/3rd level block, it was incredible.

 

[notex]

3-cone times - Beasley 7.16, Welker 7.09, Gunner 6.88 and Edelman 6.62. So Gunner is quick enough. I think you are wrong on this like you want to be

I agree that Edelman looked quicker than Welker (because he is), and Gunner does not look as quick as Edelman (because he isn't) during his punt returns, but Gunner had the highest punt return average in the NFL in 2020 (for players with 10 or more attempts), and will only get better. Gunner has a unique combination of quickness and vision. So I am sure Gunner can be a slot receiver as he has the natural quickness and the vision needed. Does Gunner know how to read the defense and find the holes like Welker and Edelman? I do not know. Not sure Cam could read a defense after 10 years. Are Gunners hands OK? I do not know. Hopefully it all comes together for him with one more offseason.

Im not really convinced by what I’ve seen thus far and i think that should be OK. It’s not a knock on him just inconclusive. This could be his ceiling - a decent return guy. And yes, i know he lead league in PR but i bet if you took out the chargers game (historically bad ST unit) he’s “good not great...”. Is that fair? Probably not.

To each their own, but a 3 cone drill means nothing to me in terms of his ability to be an effective WR. It’s that shiftiness that I don’t think makes it into a combine drill...

Ive said the same thing about Harry as well.. 2020 was an absolutely golden opportunity to earn reps at WR and neither could capitalize. We had NO ONE to throw ball to and he rarely saw field.
I do love his heart and attitude and grittiness - and hope he turns into something special.

 

[rochrist]

But then he had 11 receptions total the next 2 years. It wasn't until year 4 he became a full time receiver and year 5 that he 'broke out'....
The 2 games (week 17 and playoff) were like I said due to Welker's knee injury and IIRC lots of regulars were rested in week 17. Hoyer played the 4th quarter and Pats blew a 27-13 lead..... New England Patriots at Houston Texans - January 3rd, 2010 | Pro-Football-Reference.com

SUre, but it wasn't because of lack of ability. It was because he was playing behind Welker and suffered several unfortunate injuries. His 10 catches weren't -due- to Welker's knee injury. The injury made it possible by getting him playing time, but he's the one who made 10 catches for 103 yards.

 

[Jim Beankie]

Im not really convinced by what I’ve seen thus far and i think that should be OK. It’s not a knock on him just inconclusive. This could be his ceiling - a decent return guy. And yes, i know he lead league in PR but i bet if you took out the chargers game (historically bad ST unit) he’s “good not great...”. Is that fair? Probably not.

Def still a very small sample size, but I like what I'm seeing - I mean it was the 3rd best for yds/ret in the SB era! Last year he was officially 6th with only a long of 22yds (min 20 returns), so it's not like this came out of nowhere. Take away the SD game, and it's still a pretty good 11.8 yd/ret (versus 17.3) - better than Hester's and Tyreek's career averages (for context, 12.1 is the highest for career in the SB era, with 12.8 all time). If we take out SD stats and play that game, then we have to theoretically add the 24yds and a TD from the absolutely Bullcrap block penalty in the Arizona game. Then it becomes 13.2, which would lead the league half the time.

Maybe he's just a "system" PR - thinking Edelman/Welker/TBrown (...Mack Herron). Their career numbers are top 50 all time (taking away Welker's non Pats numbers).

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Im not really convinced by what I’ve seen thus far and i think that should be OK. It’s not a knock on him just inconclusive. This could be his ceiling - a decent return guy. And yes, i know he lead league in PR but i bet if you took out the chargers game (historically bad ST unit) he’s “good not great...”. Is that fair? Probably not.

To each their own, but a 3 cone drill means nothing to me in terms of his ability to be an effective WR. It’s that shiftiness that I don’t think makes it into a combine drill...

Ive said the same thing about Harry as well.. 2020 was an absolutely golden opportunity to earn reps at WR and neither could capitalize. We had NO ONE to throw ball to and he rarely saw field.
I do love his heart and attitude and grittiness - and hope he turns into something special.

If you cherry pick and remove Gunner's Chargers game then you have to remove the best game for every other punt returner as well, and most likely Gunner is still the #1. If #1in the NFL is not great, what is? I think you are being a bit critical. Maybe Gunner is not in the best ever conversation, but he is great at punt returns if he leads the whole NFL IMO.

All of the NFL scouting groups, the combine and pro days, test the 3cone for quickness. I trust they know what they are doing. If that is not relevant then what is? I agree the skills tests are only part of what defines a NFL wide receiver. We will see next Summer if Gunner can transition to be a WR.

I am not going to talk about Harry. People get very emotional about 1st round picks like someone has died.

 

[stcjones]

Before his injury, reports had him as the second-best receiver in camp.

This is the biggest question mark....why his struggle in regular season to find a rhythm and contribute more as a receiver. Gunner had a great season as PR and ST....hope he can bring more to table in 2021 as a WR...love to watch him play....Fearless

 

[notex]

I’m really not trying to come on here and be over critical but hes not a burner (don’t see him as a deep ball guy), doesn’t appear to have the jump ball/acrobatic catch trait, isn’t overly athletic (by NFL WR standards) etc...

I just have him down as a PR and maybe a 3rd/4th “depth” receiver. For a guy that played CB in college and isn’t a freak athlete that is pretty damn good

 

[Jim Beankie]

I’m really not trying to come on here and be over critical but hes not a burner (don’t see him as a deep ball guy), doesn’t appear to have the jump ball/acrobatic catch trait, isn’t overly athletic (by NFL WR standards) etc...

I just have him down as a PR and maybe a 3rd/4th “depth” receiver. For a guy that played CB in college and isn’t a freak athlete that is pretty damn good

He may flame out, no doubt, but Welker really did expand the realm of possibility of poor measurables and eventual successful career. We'll see how it goes. We've seen a lot more duds than studs.
Welker/Gunner
5'9" / 6'0" height
4.65 / 4.56 - 40
7.09 / 6.88 - 3cone
30" / 36" - VJ

 

[203Pat]