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Griffin VS. Nelson

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by holyredeemer, Mar 10, 2007.

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  1. holyredeemer

    holyredeemer Rookie

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    Alright. I know alot of people on here are just wishin hopin and prayin that we need to land Nelson. He's the next big play S for NE. Perfect for our system. Yada, Yada, Yada. No one ever gives a good reason why though. Just their own personal opinions.
    Can someone please tell me why Nelson is the guy we want. Please, build a case and win me over. Not because that is what so called (Draft Experts) say, but for the supporters of Nelson, tell me what makes him so much better than Griffin. I know the Pats could very well draft Nelson, (its a huge possibility) and if that happened today, I would be extremely dissapointed. I want to be ready for that day, and I want someone to win me over for Nelson. So, let's do this.
    (For the record however, as of this day, my personal opinion is to either Draft Griffin or go Safety in the later rds. Lots of upside talent to be had there.)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Here are the stats for Griffin: 6'0" 205 lbs. 4.45 40 yd. dash.
    2005--124 total tackles, 8 passes broken up, 3 Ints.
    2006--126 total tackles, 10 passes broken up, 4 Ints., 4 FF. and 2 FR.

    Other notes: 4 yr. contributor to a high quality division 1 football team. Speacial teams standout all 4 yrs. Positions played include CB,SS,FS,ST coverage unit,KR, and PR.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Here are the stats for Nelson: 5'11" 198 lbs. 4.35 40 yd. dash
    2005--46 total tackles, 1 pass broken up, 1 Int.
    2006--51 total tackles, 5 passes broken up, 6 Ints.

    Other notes: Positions played include FS,KR,PR. Very quick and athletic. Problem learning complex playbooks. Has only 2 yrs. of NCAA Division 1 exp. Very instinctive and agressive.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Anything anyone else wishes to add to this stat wise, please do. I want the argument to come from the actual side of facts, not some opinions derived from a highlight reel.
  2. Remix 6

    Remix 6 Rookie

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    Meriweather over both

    but Nelson > Griffin but for Patriots: Griffin. Hes a MUCH smarter on and off the field.

    however..i hope we pick up Hamlin :)
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2007
  3. MrTibbs

    MrTibbs Rookie

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    Add Merriweather into the mix statwise and let's see how he stacks up also.
  4. patsfan55

    patsfan55 Rookie

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    i didnt realize there was a discrepancy like that in the stats
    thing is i think nelson projects as more of a big play threat at the next level
  5. holyredeemer

    holyredeemer Rookie

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    Okay.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Brandon Meriweather 5'11" 195 lbs. 4.47 40.

    2005--115 total tackles, 7 passes broken up, 3 Ints.
    2006--57 total tackles, 8 passes broken up, 1 Int.

    Other notes:
    Plays with reckless abandoned. Has the athleticism to play all positions in the defensive backfield. Some on-field/off-field issues. Smart player and tough leader.
  6. holyredeemer

    holyredeemer Rookie

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    See, thats what everyone keeps saying, but I dont see that. I mean, I see big play ability from Nelson, but I see just as much from Griffin. Griffin is no slacker, and is an absolute ballhawk. He's always around the ball, so why isnt he considered big play at the next level? Other then 40 yd dash speed?
  7. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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  8. holyredeemer

    holyredeemer Rookie

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    My eyes are open, but that thread doesnt contain the information or the kind of attitude I wanted to hear from people. I didnt want opinions. I wanted cold hard facts. Things I might be missing. Is it really that bad starting another thread with a different idea behind but just with the same players names? If so, then just have someone merge them.
    Oh, and thanx for providing to the conversation.
  9. Remix 6

    Remix 6 Rookie

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    i hope cold hard facts arent stats. Miami D was very good compared to Texas this year
  10. holyredeemer

    holyredeemer Rookie

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    I dont get how that would so drastically change the stats of these players.
  11. kurtinelson

    kurtinelson Rookie

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    Here we go again - another misguided draftnik trying to use statistics of a player's production in college to back up his argument. There's no room for that sort of insightful analysis on this board! Haven't you seen Nelson's clips on Youtube? ;)


    Great job. I had no idea that Griffin was such a prolific tackler.
  12. sebman2112

    sebman2112 Rookie

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    Here are the scouting reports for all three:
    Reggie Nelson
    S | (6'0", 198, 4.43) | FLORIDA

    Scouts Grade: 95

    Strengths: A centerfielder type with outstanding athletic ability and speed. He shows good leverage and quickness in his pedal. Gets a deep drop and does a fine job of keeping the play in front of him. He shows excellent range in zone coverage. Consistently displays the ability to reach the sideline as a cover-3 free safety down the middle. He's instinctive and diagnoses plays quickly in coverage; he does a very good job of reading quarterbacks' eyes while dropping. He displays good ball skills and will catch the ball at its highest point. He shows very good closing burst in coverage and in run support. He isn't afraid to throw his body around. Lowers his shoulder and shows good initial pop for his size. He will play the ball first, but he also will play the body when he can't get to the ball.

    Weaknesses: Lacks ideal size and strength. Is not capable of matching up in the box. Much better in coverage than in run support. He's frequently late in diagnosing the run. He shows good initial pop for his size but he's not overly strong as a tackler. He leads with his shoulder on most occasions and looks for the knockout blow. As a result, he puts his head down and fails to wrap up on too many occasions. He has struggled academically; there are concerns regarding his mental capacity and ability to get his teammates lined up from the safety position.

    Overall: Nelson originally attended Coffeyville (Kan.) Community College in 2003 after failing to qualify academically and played football there during the 2004 season, when he registered a team-high 72 tackles, six interceptions (one returned for a touchdown), two fumble recoveries, and four blocked kicks. He transferred to Florida in January of 2005 and then appeared in 11 contests (four starts) before tearing a knee ligament during bowl practice which required surgery, finishing the year with 46 total tackles, four tackles for loss, one forced fumble, one pass defended, and one interception. In 2006, Nelson became a first team All-American after starting all 14 games and recording 51 total tackles, two tackles for loss, six interceptions (one returned for a touchdown), five pass-breakups, one fumble recovery, and two blocked kicks. He also returned 12 punts for 93 yards in 2006.
    Nelson lacks ideal size and he has limitations in run support. However, he possesses outstanding speed, athletic ability and ball skills in coverage. He has the best range of any safety prospect in the 2007 class and he can instantly upgrade the coverage skills of an NFL secondary as a centerfielder-type free safety. Nelson projects as one of the top-three safety prospects in this year's class and he should be taken in the mid-to-late portion of the first round.
    ==========================================================

    Michael Griffin
    S | (5'11", 195, 4.5) | TEXAS

    Scouts Grade: 84


    Strengths: Shows the ability to change directions quickly, explodes out of cuts and has good short-area man-to-man cover skills. Possesses good top-end speed, has long arms and can cover the deep middle of the field when he makes the right reads. Is tall, has good leaping ability and flashes the ability to catch the ball at its highest point. Possesses decent ball skills and is capable of making some big plays in coverage. He fills hard versus the run, possesses excellent closing speed for the position and can be an explosive open-field tackler capable of knocking the ball loose. Plays with a good motor, is willing in run support and always seems to be around the ball at the end of the play. Has blocked six kicks, can cover kicks and should make an immediate impact on special teams.

    Weaknesses: Lacks elite size, doesn't have great lower-body strength and is vulnerable to getting engulfed when he lines up in the box. He can be over-aggressive at times and will get caught peeking in the backfield. He over-pursues at times and will get caught out of position as a tackler on occasion. He will take some false steps and needs to be coached to improve his recognition skills. Though durability isn't a substantial concern, he has been slowed by injuries at times.

    Overall: Griffin saw action in 12 games (two starts; nickel package) during his true freshman season in 2003 as the backup strong safety registering 65 total tackles, five tackles for loss, two sacks, two pass-breakups, three forced fumbles, and one fumble recovery. In 2004, he played in all 12 games (one start) finishing the year with 49 total tackles, two tackles for loss, one sack, one interception, three pass-breakups, one forced fumble, one fumble recovery, and two blocked kicks. Griffin started 12 of 13 games at strong safety in 2005 and recorded 124 total tackles, four tackles for loss, three interceptions, eight pass-breakups, three fumble recoveries, one forced fumble, and four blocked kicks. In 2006 he started all 13 games at free safety, registering 126 total tackles, 3.5 tackles for loss, one sack, 10 pass-breakups, four forced fumbles, two fumble recoveries, two blocked kicks, and four interceptions. Griffin was named a second team All-American (media) and a first team All-Big 12 (media and coaches) performer.
    Griffin doesn't have elite size and he needs to improve his consistency as a tackler. However, he has the frame to get bigger, he is extremely "coachable" and he always seems to be in on big plays. Griffin is a relentless run supporter, he displays very good range in deep coverage and he is one of the best special team's players in the 2007 draft class. If coached properly, Griffin has the physical tools to emerge as an upper-echelon starting free safety in the NFL. That's why, despite a sub-par senior season, we believe Griffin warrants consideration early in the second round.
    ==========================================================
    Brandon Meriweather
    S | (5'10", 192, 4.52) | MIAMI (FLA.)

    Scouts Grade: 79

    Flags: (B: BULK/SIZE) Lacks size/bulk for position(C: CHARACTER) Problems on and off the field(D: DURABILITY) Player that can't stay healthy


    Strengths: Is a versatile safety prospect with good range versus the run and pass. He lacks ideal size but fills hard versus the run. Shows better power at the point of attack as a tackler than his size would indicate. He plays with a great motor and a mean streak. He makes his presence known over the middle of the field and will throw his body around. Very reliable tackler in the open field. He shows good instincts and initial quickness. Diagnoses plays quickly and consistently takes solid angles. He has better than average range in deep zone coverage. His ball skills are adequate. Shows very good football intelligence and is a leader in the secondary. Great experience at the highest level of collegiate competition.

    Weaknesses: Lacks ideal bulk and must add weight to his frame. Fills hard versus the run and could match up in-the-box at times on the collegiate level, but he is not big enough to do the same in the NFL. His shoulder surgery in 2006 is concerning, especially for an undersized safety. Character is also a concern following the stomping incident versus FIU as a senior.

    Overall: Meriweather played in three games as a true freshman in 2002, before suffering a season-ending injury, which resulted in him receiving a medical redshirt. He returned in 2003, appeared in all 13 games, and recorded 22 total tackles, one interception, and five pass-breakups. In 2004, Meriweather played in all 12 games (seven starts after a shoulder injury kept him out of the starting lineup for five contests) and registered 62 total tackles, two tackles for loss, two interceptions, five pass-breakups, and two forced fumbles. Meriweather played in all 12 games in 2005 and finished the season with 115 total tackles, 13 tackles for loss, one sack, three interceptions, seven pass-breakups, two forced fumbles, and one fumble recovery. He underwent off-season shoulder surgery and missed spring practice in 2006. Meriweather returned in 2006 and started 11 of 12 games (suspended for the Duke game for his role in the brawl with Florida International) recording 57 total tackles, five tackles for loss, one sack, eight pass-breakups, and one interception. He saw action at free safety, strong safety, and cornerback and was named second team All-ACC.
    Meriweather is an experienced, instinctive and athletic defensive back. While some see him at cornerback in the NFL -- where he spent significant time as a senior -- we believe Meriweather is best suited to play free safety. He lacks ideal size but has room on his frame to add bulk. He grades out as a second-round prospect on film study alone, but concerns regarding his character and durability could cause him to slip a round or two in this year's draft.

    * Player biographies are provided by Scouts Inc.
  13. patsfan55

    patsfan55 Rookie

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    he jus seems to have better closing speed
  14. patsfan55

    patsfan55 Rookie

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    hahaha
    yeah nelsons clips on youtube make me cream my pants a lil
    not gonna lie
  15. jbb9s

    jbb9s Rookie

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    The trick is to draft someone who can play SS and FS - its too hard to tell who will go on IR first: Rodney or Eugene.

    Only kidding.


    Was Merriweather involved in spiking a dude during that big fight? Also, I didn't like how the Texas guys used "money" as an inspiration to working out: it was profiled on SC maybe 6 weeks ago and it included plenty of clips of the workout routine with the guys shouting "for the money" and all this garbage.
  16. bruinator

    bruinator Rookie

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    OK, which one sounds more like Rodney?

    Reggie Nelson's impressive pro day (he ran the 40 in 4.35 sec., had a 10'6" broad jump and did well the drills). He will add an instant spark to deep secondary with his hard hits and ball skills.

    Michael Griffin is a rangy, sure tackling safety and would make a great addition to this defense. He's not the hard-hitting J. Lynch type safety, but he's very fast and would also be a huge boost on special teams.
  17. patsfan55

    patsfan55 Rookie

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    griffin is more like rodney
    but nelson is more like ed reed
    who cares?
  18. holyredeemer

    holyredeemer Rookie

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    I thought nelsons clip wasnt too hot. His only big hits were guys that were laid out for catches and he never wrapped up. After I saw that clip, thats when I started doubting him. I never really noticed it the few games I actually saw him.
  19. kurtinelson

    kurtinelson Rookie

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    Thanks for sharing that.
  20. holyredeemer

    holyredeemer Rookie

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    Griffin caused 4 FF last yr, but hes not hard hitting and nelson is? Ive seen Griffin play, and that man can hit.
    As far as reggie nelson pro day, dont forget that at the combine he ran a 4.47. What does that mean? I honestly dont know...LOL.
  21. sebman2112

    sebman2112 Rookie

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    Out of Nelson, Meriweather, and Griffin I think Meriweather fits NE's defense the best, at FS.

    Now what about John Wendling, Josh Gattis, Eric Weddle, or Even Daren Stone?
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2007
  22. bradmahn

    bradmahn Rookie

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    At the Combine, Merriweather looked too small and out of shape. He lacked muscle and looked kinda chubby. He also had disappointing times in the forty and bench press. Wasn't he also the guy who was swinging his helmet like a club in the Miami Brawl? I don't think he is a Patriots player at all. More like a Bengal or Charger.
  23. holyredeemer

    holyredeemer Rookie

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    So, just out of curiosity. Why is it that this thread was moved from the area it wouldve gotten the most discussion but yet completely irrelevent threads disease the forum everyday? What does the proshop or ron borges have to do with the PATS, more so atleast then this discussion?? Im just curious and would like an answer. Thx.
  24. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Griffin should provide the best value, since we are discussing Nelson and Griffin as close. For me, run support, ST's and always being around the ball is what we need in a safety.

    I agree with what many have said, Griffin would be a fine pick for us #28. And no, I don't want to trade down, risk losing him, and have him for one less year if we do get him.

    Please repeat each day at least three times: Revis and Griffin!!
  25. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    Based solely on the various scouting reports, Griffin has always seemed like the best fit.
  26. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey
    Obviously I wasn't the one who moved it but we need the draft threads on the draft board. That way the board is busier and more people will visit it and more threads will be started and the board will be even busier and even more people will visit it. Get it ? :D
  27. numbah39

    numbah39 Rookie

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    I've been a big fan of Griffin since I saw a couple of Texas games this past year, IMO he seems like more of the Pats type player. He's just more versatile. 40 speed and game speed are two completely different things and anyone that says he can't hit needs to watch a couple of his games.
  28. Brady'sButtBoy

    Brady'sButtBoy Rookie

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    This kid has a Pat's demeanor about him, saw an interview with him and he was very well spoken, quite sharp and humble. Good size and speed - this report makes out as a little soft but the word on NFL network was that he was a tough guy. If we can't grab Landry or Nelson, he could be a solid mid-round pick up who might play for years after Rodney's finished

    sabby piscitelli-
    http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/s/sabbypiscitelli.html
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2007
  29. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Rookie

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    I don't know Griffin. Just of what I've read he seems like a great all around player. But I wouldn't base everything on his tackle stats. If Texas's front seven were leaking like a siv that could explain his high tackle number. It does give him justice that he can tackle. However if Nelson played for Texas he may of had similiar numbers, maybe better or worse. That's why the draft is such a crap shoot.

    Questions regarding Griffins toughness have been thrown out there. I don't know him personally so I don't know. But I have no doubt Harrison could teach him toughness.
  30. mcbee

    mcbee Banned

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    I don't like Nelson. He's supposedly pretty dumb...makes highlight football plays but how many times is he out of position that you won't hear about?

    Griffin is OK, don't know about 1st round material. Rodney was 5th round IIRC. There are alot of good safeties taken later. Sabby Piscatelli is supposedly a hard hitting, fast, intelligent interception machine. He'd be good in the 4th or so I think.

    I think they take REvis in the 1st, AJ Davis in the 4th or Josh Wilson in the 3rd. Piscatelli or someone like that in the 3rd or 4th.
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