Greg Williams Speech before the 49ers game

[WhiZa]

I really don't have a problem with him using such harsh language. What do you think goes on in the locker room when the media isn't around? It isn't the tea party that Goodell may think it is. He tells his players to kill the other team, but do you think they take it literally? I've listened to a lot a players opinions on the mater and they don't see it as a big of a deal as some make it mainly because they see what happens when the cameras are turned off. Williams did go too far by adding a prize to injuring players, but the way he was speaking probably isn't much different then other teams.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Sorry to raise a point I raised in the previous discussion about this quite some time ago but...

I am having trouble getting my head around the relationship between offensive and defensive players who are sitting in the same locker room while this is going on. Given the amount of player movement across the league, surely the offensive guys are aware that they could easily or quite likely ARE targets of the defense who would essentially be threatening their livelihoods and inflicting a serious amount of pain and long unpleasant rehabilitation on them. Why would any offensive player not get up and go straight to the NFL office and report this. How could it have taken this long?

I played ice hockey, which is also a physical sport, but one where I never saw anyone deliberately preparing to try to injure other guys. Play hard, be tough, hit as much as you can, make them scared to go into corners or park in front of the net, sure, all of that. But injure guys? No way. And if I knew someone on my team was trying to do that, I'd call him out on it. Given that we were all on the ice at the same time, there's a different dynamic in hockey though. This is more "targets" vs. "assassins", and I can't understand how the targets would sit there and be okay with this.

This wasn't a team meeting, it was a defensive coordinator meeting with the defense. But believe me, that offense knew. Brees knew. That's why in his plausible denial response was he had no "real" knowledge of any bounty system... He wasn't in those meetings, but he certainly overheard scuttlebut when the team was on the field together. And offensive players don't want to be classified as skirts or blackballed by coaches or teamates or potential teamates. Peer pressure, just like in HS, only among supposedly grown assed, millionaire men.

Which is why I think Goodell is seeking input on player penalties. He wants to send a message and the message is grow the F up, no more the dog ate my homwork excuses. Next time any of you get caught the gloves will come off. Vilma will likely be the only player suspended more than a game as a message going forward that this behavior won't be tolerated or merely fined and excuses like coach made me do it won't be, either.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I really don't have a problem with him using such harsh language. What do you think goes on in the locker room when the media isn't around? It isn't the tea party that Goodell may think it is. He tells his players to kill the other team, but do you think they take it literally? I've listened to a lot a players opinions on the mater and they don't see it as a big of a deal as some make it mainly because they see what happens when the cameras are turned off. Williams did go too far by adding a prize to injuring players, but the way he was speaking probably isn't much different then other teams.

It's not the language. It's not ever the use of hyperbole. This went beyond that because Williams made it clear he wasn't speaking in hyperbole and there was money on the table for players to make illegal and intentionally injurious hits on specific opponents and even specific body parts. He pointed to his own chin when calling for repeated hits right there on Smith and referenced head hits multiple times which are illegal as well as admonishing them to commit unsportsmanlike conduct in the pile, also tied to head injury. It's fine to say cut off the head and the snake dies...as long as you don't name the snake Gore or Smith and give specific and illegal instruction on actually attempting to actually injure their heads...

I listened to a 4 minute version of this crap and I'm gonna be real upset when this guy is allowed to ever coach again redemption be damned. Than again, I felt the same way about Vick.

 

[Sivy]

Skip owned these two former players on first take who were saying "bounties are no big deal" because injuries are a part of the game and people should play as hard as they can..they later went on to say that its wrong for former players to not get disablility payments right away. He pointed this contradiction out to them but no one talked about it.

I have a problem with it because we as a society have stated: Cameras being a few feet outside of where they are alloud to be=worst thing thats ever happened to anyone ever.
Trying to injure pepople to an extent where their entire lifestyles are at risk=No big deal

makes sense.

 

[Sivy]

Oh to be on a fly on the wall of a Saint defensive meeting before the Saints Vikings game in 2009.

Favre took more of a beating in the game than I ever saw in a game. If it was any other player they wouldnt have finished that game.

 

[Kontradiction]

No wonder his suspension was so harsh. Didn't know it was that bad until I heard that. Ruining acls, smashing players heads into the ground under the pile, twisting ankles, targeting concussions. Wow. And calling out individual players by name and number. Goodell had to act on this one. For those who thought the punishment was too severe may have to reconsider their stance.

Funny comments below in the article.

Greg Williams, Did you order the Code Red? You're goddamn right I did!!!!

Twisting limbs, punching ball sacks, and gouging eyes is nothing new. That stuff happens in high school. Everything else is just disturbing and there's no place for any of it in football.

 

[Ivan]

Can legal physical contact injure someone?



I'm not a sadist, I'm just honest. The NFL has shown that clip a million times, you'll never see a documentary on LT without them showing that play. The league profits from violent hits like that yet condems it at the same time, a bunch of damn hypocrites.

Top Ten Pass Rushers #1 Deacon Jones - YouTube

"I tried to put him in the hospital every time I hit him" - Deacon Jones

It's a fine line no doubt, and one that is blurred on pretty much every play, where it gets crossed however is when Williams starts naming players and the injuries he wants inflicted upon them, e.g... the comments about bending Davis' ankles over the pile, which has nothing at all to do with football, only deliberately injuring a player. Ironically players are defending these actions when they should be furious that coaches are trying to end their careers and their "ability to feed their families." I think it's likely that Goodelll will someday reinstate Williams but if more clips like this come out then it will get tougher and tougher to do so.

That speech was pretty revolting, but i would guess many coaches have walked that line before and some have crossed it. Williams had been warned, ignored it, and told his players to go deliberately injure other players, if it weren't the NFL everyone would want him criminally prosecuted, he's lucky he didn't pull this with college kids. I'm glad Goodell hammered him and think it sends a message to coaches at all levels that if they cross that line their careers are in jeopardy, that's exactly the way it should be.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

Wrong on both counts. And why bring BB into this?? You really think these situations are similar "pats fan"?

Man, sorry. Fired up this morning.

And another thing! "Comfort is the breeding ground for mediocrity" really makes no sense. I know plenty of uncomfortable mediocre people, and just as many excelllent people that are comfortable.

ahh, sorry for the attack. I'm sure you're a very nice person. I'll go back to work now

Maybe you need to get more sleep tonight

 

[sly24]

************. I don't see him coaching again. He can't change that mentality.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

************. I don't see him coaching again. He can't change that mentality.

Yet all the D players they have had on talk shows and ESPN..says every team says stuff like this. I find it hard to believe that every D coordinator is like this..

 

[Ivan]

************. I don't see him coaching again. He can't change that mentality.

What makes it much worse for him is that the NFL or pro football is now really his only option, I can't see how any school could ever justify hiring him. The lower the level the harder it gets to allow him to coach. Anyone want him coaching high school football?

"now Bobby, I want you to kick that Newsome kid, number 34 in the nuts every chance you get, and Billy and Tommy, you try to rip that that m......therf...... Hardy's ACL into 5 pieces by the end of the 2nd series, then we'll see if their back-up Jones can do the job, or if his mommy will even let him play. So you little f.......g m....therf.....'s get out there and kill those little rat bastards and leave their corpses so their mommies and daddies can't even recognize their 10 year old bodies, then it's ice cream for the whole defense on me...."

 

[Halifax_Pats_Fan]

...I mean you are talking about paying someone for intentionally injurying another person. That kind of thing in my mind is borderline criminal, an offense. Forget Goodel, send them to jail.

"well this happens all the time and it is football"...bu11****. That is not football. I don't give a rip if it happens or has happenned in the NFL, college, high school or years ago. We are evolving as a society.

This is a sport. The bounty you have on someone to smash their face and take out their legs is the same face and legs of somone's husband, father, brother. Total bu11****.

Of course players are gonna come on and say this was normal, it paints them in a much tougher light. "yeah, that was/is the way it was/is". Easy for them to say sitting on their warm fuzzy couch now.

We all hate Favre, I get it, some of those hits he took in that playoff game were brutal. Brutal. Cost them a SB appearance. He could have had that first down easy but the man was shellshocked. I believe he was honestly worried that there would have been serious ramifications if he ran for that first down.

I don't give a **** if that is in the game, was in the game....it needs to get out of the game. We are not neanderthals.

Not getting this coach out of the league tells us as fans and a society that it is ok...well, it is not ok. Take advantage of what happened, and don't let it slide by.

 

[BradyManny]

I really don't have a problem with him using such harsh language. What do you think goes on in the locker room when the media isn't around? It isn't the tea party that Goodell may think it is. He tells his players to kill the other team, but do you think they take it literally? I've listened to a lot a players opinions on the mater and they don't see it as a big of a deal as some make it mainly because they see what happens when the cameras are turned off. Williams did go too far by adding a prize to injuring players, but the way he was speaking probably isn't much different then other teams.

The whole thing is crazy. I understand players will do things in the heat of the moment, but to see a coach calculate a scheme like this, and say things like that? There's no sugar coating it, its not right at all.

The NFL has to move past the barbaric nature that has left so many of its players ruined for life. The game will always be violent in its nature, but society has progressed to the point where player safety is an obvious issue they all have to be aware of.

If certain players or coaches have not caught up with that progression, then they're going to have to either catch up fast or get punished. That's how it is - and that's how it should be. You can't argue to me that our trivial entertainment on a Sunday is worth some guy's knee or his brain. Not even I take football that seriously. Injuries are going to happen as a result of the sport - there is really no reason for players & coaches to accelerate the occurrences.

 

[naF staP]

Horrible! Sure when we all played we wanted to hit hard, maybe put someone out of the game from a solid, clean hit.... but never, ever did it enter my mind that I wanted to beat someones head in, take out someone's ACL or go after someones ankle, knee or head of a player who has had concussions. And to top it all off... to get compensated for doing so.

For this to even be compared to spygate is pathetic! This man should never, ever coach again. The Saints should be ashamed and punished to full extent as well as players. And for Breez, Sean Peyton, and others who use the excuse that they weren't in the defense meetings and did not know what was going on with this pathetic loser of a coach are just gutless bastards who weren't big enough to man up and put a stop to this. To all the people talking about spygate and bountygate in the same breath, they are either pathetic haters of the Pats or just complete morons!!

 

[WhiZa]

The whole thing is crazy. I understand players will do things in the heat of the moment, but to see a coach calculate a scheme like this, and say things like that? There's no sugar coating it, its not right at all.

The NFL has to move past the barbaric nature that has left so many of its players ruined for life. The game will always be violent in its nature, but society has progressed to the point where player safety is an obvious issue they all have to be aware of.

If certain players or coaches have not caught up with that progression, then they're going to have to either catch up fast or get punished. That's how it is - and that's how it should be. You can't argue to me that our trivial entertainment on a Sunday is worth some guy's knee or his brain. Not even I take football that seriously. Injuries are going to happen as a result of the sport - there is really no reason for players & coaches to accelerate the occurrences.

How do you move past the barbaric nature without reverting to flag football?

 

[Fencer]

There are a lot of different levels of violence, at least in attitude:

1. Trying to make plays.
2. Trying to make plays and also intimidate, via pain or fear of injury.
3. Trying to make clean plays, and hoping to get "lucky" by also causing an injury.
4. Trying to injure via dirty plays.

#1 and #2 are part of football; anybody who thinks #2 shouldn't be is in a small minority.

#4 absolutely should not be part of football. While we know that it actually does happen fairly routinely, coaches who organize and amplify it should get the severest penalties and condemnation.

Reasonable people can disagree about #3.

 

[Snake Eyes]

It's a fine line no doubt, and one that is blurred on pretty much every play, where it gets crossed however is when Williams starts naming players and the injuries he wants inflicted upon them, e.g... the comments about bending Davis' ankles over the pile, which has nothing at all to do with football, only deliberately injuring a player.

I agree with you to a large extent, cranking on a players ankle while in the pile has nothing to do with a tackle and would therefore be dirty, and I want the league to punish dirty play very harshly.

As far as which players you want to give extra love to if possible, they all know who's nursing an injury and where and they all try to knock out a weak link if possible, it's just that no one is generally foolish enough to talk about it.

 

[Wolfpack]

Goodell certainly had to have had this as part of the evidence. He can't ban him twice; he already gave out his decision to just suspend him.

No one knows for sure whether or not the commissioner had this tape prior to today. And the suspension of Williams is "indefinite" so something like this, if it is new to the commissioner, could influence him to change that "indefinite" into "permanent."

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Thought this was an interesting tweet from a DT who played for 2 teams for 8 seasons ending in 2007...

Seth Payne‏@iamsethpayne

Guys claiming Gregg Williams' behavior was normal in NFL are out of line. Played for 5 DC's and never heard anything remotely like that.


Retweeted by ProFootballFocus.com

Prisco now has an article up explaining why he can be indignant but we can't, because obviously he gets that coaches cuss and talk smack and we moronfans don't and obvioulsy can't differentiate between that and what Williams did. I hate mediots like Pete who muddy the waters because they assume fans are idiots and mostly in his case because he has a permanant hair across his ass about how he is perceived by those same fans...

 

[Wolfpack]

It's the other 10%, the over the top admonitions to specifically target individual players ACL's or take head shots and keep inflicting damage on the head even after the play and even if you weren't initially part of the hit

I had virutally the exact same reaction. Most of what we hear is stuff that takes place in 31 other locker rooms, but the stuff about hitting Smith on the head each and every time you could was, IMHO, reprehensible. Head shots can change a guy's life forever.