FYI: Brady vs Montana vs Manning: TD distribution chart

[borg]

I agree it is tough. But I do think there's a significance to the pass distribution in totals especially when the career durations are roughly the same.

Brady has thrown TD's to more receivers. He wasn't as dependent on one particular guy and has achieved similar if not better success.

Not sure why targeting quality receivers who have long term careers on one team earns a QB (Manning) the label "dependent on one particular guy." These three starters .....Wayne, Harrison, and Clark played for the Colts for 36 years combined. Should Manning have thrown to receivers not on the roster to prove to Pats fans he can spread it around?

Does targeting one particular receiver 132 times in 12 games qualify as being "dependent on one particular guy".

 

[Koma]

IIRC the rushing one was originally called a pass but found to be a lateral (just barely) an converted to a running TD...

Just because I let these kind of things bother me...

Compare the picture of Brady's lateral to Gronk that Tony2046 used in post #12...

...with what was ruled a pass by Manning to Eric Decker from 2013. (Video)

The league reviewed the play and ruled it a forward pass. Manning set the single season passing yards record in that game, beating the old record by 1 yard. If it was ruled a lateral, that play would have gone in the books as a 7 yard run by Decker and Drew Brees would still have the record.

 

[Gumby]

It looks like a designed lateral or maybe not. Hard to tell. Good memory btw.

View attachment 15473

I seriously doubt a competent OC DESIGNS a lateral to a player out on an island like Gronk is on that Play when you are inside the 10ydline /red zone. A dropped lateral-pass is a live ball, and If he is out there with little/no blockers the chances of recovery drop dramatically with each additional defender (Who are all facing in the right direction to see/react to the live ball)

 

[Tony2046]

Not sure why targeting quality WRs who have long term careers on one team earns a QB (Manning) the label "dependent on one particular guy." These three starters .....Wayne, Harrison, and Clark played for the Colts for 36 years combined. Should Manning have thrown to receivers not on the roster to prove to Pats fans he can spread it around?

Does targeting one particular receiver 132 times in 12 games qualify as being "dependent on one particular guy".

Good points Borg.

I said "more dependent" and yes I do think you should spread the ball around.

As a novice I would argue the following:

1. Spreading the ball around forces the defense to defend everything which takes away their ability to "key" in on a target who is thrown to a third of the time.

2. Brady's 3:1 TD/INT ratio is partially a result of spreading the ball around. (Both Montana and Manning share a ratio of 2:1 give or take a tenth.)

3. Throwing to 7 different targets in a game continuously takes more than just a fling of the arm. It's getting on the same page with multiple targets in a complex scheme. That doesn't happen during a game. Does that express better leadership and or commitment? I think it does.

Btw: I understand we are discussing all time greats so my comparisons are relative to that.

 

[Tony2046]

I seriously doubt a competent OC DESIGNS a lateral to a player out on an island like Gronk is on that Play when you are inside the 10ydline /red zone. A dropped lateral-pass is a live ball, and If he is out there with little/no blockers the chances of recovery drop dramatically with each additional defender (Who are all facing in the right direction to see/react to the live ball)

Yeah I was corrected by @Bobsyouruncle later in the thread. I was wrong about that.

 

[Gumby]

View attachment 15479

I suggest you take a look at this thread I started a couple years ago regarding Brady vs Manning

Manning vs. Brady Weapons ComparisonView attachment 15478

Nice table!

That is a lot of #1s in the paymeaton column. The only first rndr who wasnt a TE in the TB column, was acquired (Moss).

Note: You have dan graham carried once as a first rounder and 3-4 times as a 2d rdr

 

[Tony2046]

i thought gronk has 69 td

I had to "like" this post because I don't understand the dislike.

 

[deroc5050]

Careful with Adderal.. I am not a big speed guy and I dont have ADD or ADHD but a few years ago some girl I knew got 30 mg subscriptions for it. I ended up taking some every weekend for like 2 months.. the last weekend I took to many and I got ****ed up big time. It was actually scary. I am an idiot. Never again.

 

[sambam94]

Patten one more than Troy Brown surprised me

 

[Gumby]

Yeah I was corrected by @Bobsyouruncle later in the thread. I was wrong about that.

Wasnt trying to pile on, just got stuck on the word designed in relation to that part of field.

 

[Tony2046]

Careful with Adderal.. I am not a big speed guy and I dont have ADD or ADHD but a few years ago some girl I knew got 30 mg subscriptions for it. I ended up taking some every weekend for like 2 months.. the last weekend I took to many and I got ****ed up big time. It was actually scary. I am an idiot. Never again.

I don't take it daily. It does help me to concentrate although if I take it and get hung up on Patsfans I seem to stay on Patsfans forever analyzing every freaking detail someone or anyone posted. Which then leads me down a Google rabbit hole of infinite meaningless research. haha

 

[Tony2046]

Wasnt trying to pile on, just got stuck on the word designed in relation to that part of field.

No problem. I admit it was a dumb thought for exactly the reasons you stated.

 

[Tony2046]

Just because I let these kind of things bother me...

Compare the picture of Brady's lateral to Gronk that Tony2046 used in post #12...

...with what was ruled a pass by Manning to Eric Decker from 2013. (Video)

The league reviewed the play and ruled it a forward pass. Manning set the single season passing yards record in that game, beating the old record by 1 yard. If it was ruled a lateral, that play would have gone in the books as a 7 yard run by Decker and Drew Brees would still have the record.

There's a slight difference. Manning yelled "Omaha" as he released the ball and they knew Brady would one day smash his physics changing phone.

 

[deroc5050]

I don't take it daily. It does help me to concentrate although if I take it and get hung up on Patsfans I seem to stay on Patsfans forever analyzing every freaking detail someone or anyone posted. Which then leads me down a Google rabbit hole of infinite meaningless research. haha

Oh I understand, been there done that.

 

[Tony2046]

I do not remember that Ashworth TD at all. Was he lined up as a TE?

Brady capped it with a 1-yard TD pass to offensive tackle Tom Ashworth, who was lined up in the backfield as a lead blocker.

Season's beating

But most noteworthy from that game was that it was against the vaunted Tampa offense led by none other than the dart throwing Christopher Simms who was unfortunately sacked 7 times.

Pats 28
Tampa 0

 

[Tony2046]

Next time the Adderal kicks in , how about a distribution chart by TD pass yardage?

 

[Patjew]

Season's beating

But most noteworthy from that game was that it was against the vaunted Tampa offense led by none other than the dart throwing Christopher Simms who was unfortunately sacked 7 times.

Pats 28
Tampa 0

Cadillac Williams

Awesome!!!! Wow, the names and players from the past.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

View attachment 15492

Well.

Looking at that it appears no NE fan should ever open their mouth again to complain about Manning having padded his TD stats by throwing short TD passes instead of the team running the ball...

(What's Rogers's breakdown?)

 

[deroc5050]

Well.

Looking at that it appears no NE fan should ever open their mouth again to complain about Manning having padded his TD stats by throwing short TD passes instead of the team running the ball...

(What's Rogers's breakdown?)

There is a big difference though from a 9 yard TD pass and 2 yrd TD pass. Same can be said about an 11 yrd TD pass and a 20 yrd pass. While interesting stats it doesn't tell the whole story. The Colts had 2 solid running backs for years with Edgerin James and Joseph Addai.

The Pats really haven't had good backs, Lawrence Maroney who was a bit of a bust and Ridley who had trouble holding on the ball.

I think the Pats have had a bunch of 5 yrd TD passes with Tight ends. Instead of running the ball 2 or 3 times they were so good they would just throw.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Really interesting stuff, thanks for putting this all together.

On a nerdy sidenote, did you use pivot tables to put this all together? It didn't look like it from the format but you might have just cleaned it up nicely.