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For Me: The Biggest CBA Question Is?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by mgteich, Jul 10, 2011.

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  1. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well, I mean the biggest question other than when the season will start.

    For me, the biggest unanswered question is roster size manaement for 2011.

    IRA and PUP
    I don't expect an changes in IR or PUP rules, although that could happen.

    Rookie Roster Exemptions
    I expect this for at least part of the year, unless there is an increase in the 53 man roster size.

    Free Agent Roster Exemptions
    How many weeks will a free agent be given before he counts against the roster?

    2011 Roster Size
    Perhaps there will be a permanent change in the roster size, active roster size and/or Practice Squad size; or not. Even if there is no permanent change, there could be a larger roster size in 2011 only. I expect a larger Practice Squad also to accomodate a couple of more UDFA's who are probably hurt most by the shorter camp time.

    BOTTOM LINE
    I expect (hope for) an effective roster size of 56 for the 2011 season, plus the IR and PUP lists. I prefer this to long roster exemptions, although that is the other option. In any case, it is clear that many players will not be ready for the season because of the shorter camps. This is true for everyone, but especially rookies and free agents, and most especially undrafted rookie free agents.
  2. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    One more time. What is the league rationale for only dressing less than the 53 on game day? Too much like a girly mon MLB style rule to me. I pay big ticket prices. Why should I see less than a team's best available out there???
  3. Frick

    Frick Rookie

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    Great point, and I'd like to see a team be able to protect half of its Practice Squad.
  4. RussFrancis

    RussFrancis Rookie

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    I sure hope they just make it an even 60. Considering how many young players every team will suit up, losing all this camp time is gonna KILL the product otherwise. I mean 3 extra players is sure to help. Id just rather see the xtra depth bumped up closer to maybe 7. But then with that, practice squad players might lose PS eligibility, and a host of other issues obviously enter into the equation. Its going to to bumped. It'll be interesting to see to what degree.
  5. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #51 Jersey

    Rookie wage scale. I want to see what the salary structure will be and its list management implications for veteran FA acquisitions.
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2011
  6. BlueThunder

    BlueThunder Rookie

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    Teams should be able to remove injured players from their roster and put them on a disabled list ala MLB......instead of having to either IR them or carry them on the gameday inactive.....do away with gameday inactive and have all 53 available to play....:)
  7. ctpatsfan77

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    The league rationale is that, by midseason, there are going to be teams with injured players who simply aren't able to go. By setting the game-day roster at 45 instead of 53, it acts as an "equalizer."

    The interesting thing is that BB was asked about this a few years back, and he is actually NOT in favor of expanding the game-day roster.
  8. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Can they please put in a "Your cheerleaders must be at least as hot as the Chargers cheerleaders" clause for every team?
  9. RussFrancis

    RussFrancis Rookie

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    And here's what he had to say about it specifically. Yet, I cant help but wonder if this one single year, he'd ammend his thoughts based on circumstance.


    “There is a certain movement out there among different teams and coaches and media, and so forth, about expanding the rosters. They are saying if we have more players [on game day], we’re already paying a certain number of guys, so why not let them all play? But I think the downside of that, the more players you have, the more specialization you have.

    “So now you have a kickoff guy, a field-goal guy, a snapper, a punt return guy, a kickoff return guy, a blocking tight end on goal line, a receiving tight end on third down. Then defensively you need all the people to match those, so before you know it, you have a plus-50 punt return guy, then you have a guy on a long field to return punts, you have a lot of ball-handling situations.

    “So yeah, you can take the roster to 70 and find a spot for everybody, for that one situation, kind of like in college – you have a field-goal snapper, you have a punt snapper, you get 20 guys to do 20 different things. I’m not sure that is good for the game. … I don’t know if the fans want to see that or don’t want to see that. I think that’s an interesting question. Do they want to see 50 guys out there playing, or do they want to see 30 they know and can keep track of? …

    “It’s obviously a longer discussion here, and I didn’t mean to get carried away. I just love to help you guys about [laughter].”
  10. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Protect them from what? Having a better opportunity to make about 10 times more money with some other team that actually wants them to play in real games?
  11. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think BB is against increasing the number of players because he feels he has an advantage by favoring versatile players and a team concept rather than superstars and one dimensional guys. That advantage should be greater with limited preseason.
  12. RussFrancis

    RussFrancis Rookie

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    I dont think he meant "protect" quite that literal. And he wasnt referring to the individual, but the PS as a unit. Protection in this case meaning the ability to maintain quality depth for the benefit of the team.
  13. RussFrancis

    RussFrancis Rookie

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    Id essentially agree with you. He knows his team will be far better prepared to win than most, no matter the conditions. But if he has to roster 6 or 7 rookie players that he hasnt had any actual hands on coaching interaction with, perhaps he'd see the logic in supersizing a roster this season to keep more proven veterans, even if only for the short term. Specifically, I wonder if he's ready to turn the starting LT spot over to a rookie who's yet to sniff a playbook. Or if he'd rather have the luxury of keeping a Kaczur to possibly hold it down on the right, while Vollmer slides over to the left. I dont know about you, but Im gonna be holding my breath in a big way early on if Solder is protecting the franchise's backside. Its probably gonna happen, regardless. But this bloody lockout, resulting in the inability of critical players such as Solder to adequately prepare, has me thinking outside the box.
  14. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Again, though that logic has to be taken in the context of everyone having to deal with it. And frankly, we after a 14-2 season have less need for rookies to perform than many teams.
    I really don't think there will be any difference in the roster size or rules.
    The players won 't want to spread their cap dollars across a larger roster. As long as they have close to a full camp, I don't really think rookies missing OTAs is going to have as big an impact as people are saying. Just my opinion, but camp is long enough to assimilate them, and the league is prepare to move the season back 2-3 weeks if they must.
  15. RussFrancis

    RussFrancis Rookie

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    Im gonna say damn the rules here. How many other teams are planning on starting a rookie left tackle to protect the blindside of their unanimous league MVP quarterback? Not everyone really has to deal with that.
  16. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well what would a larger roster have to do with that?
    BTW, there are many alternatives if Solder isnt ready.
    Its not like Brady is going to get sacked 12 times a game. We have 3 other guys on the roster who can and have played LT and the inside track on signing the guy who played it at a probowl level last year.
    But none of that really has anything to do with roster size. If Solder isnt ready we dont need the 60th guy on the roster to take his place, Light, Vollmer, Kaczur or LeVoir will.
  17. RussFrancis

    RussFrancis Rookie

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    You dont think Levoir wouldnt qualify as the 60th guy?? lol What's he done again? Light's gone. I just dont see him coming back here, considering that we basically just drafted his replacement. Kaczur is the only alternative, as I see it currently.
  18. ctpatsfan77

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    Ummm. . . . in that case, I think they'd just move Vollmer to LT and put in Kaczur/whoever at RT until Solder is ready.
  19. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We get it. We protect the team by not allowing Practice Squad players get a an opportunity to play for an nfl team this year. As was said, the players would be protected from getting game money from another team. This is NOT going to happen. If the teams want to "protect" suich players, then 60 players getting at least minimum pay would do the job.

  20. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Not to be facetious, but more often than not, the price of that experience is that the player never returns to New England. . . .
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2011
  21. Sciz

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    The smaller the roster, the better for the Patriots. With the possible (Light-pending) exception of Solder, there's no pressure on any of the rookies to contribute immediately, while many (Dowling, Vereen, Ridley, Carter, Williams) can cover kicks, Smith can contribute as a blocker on returns, Mallett doesn't need to be ready for at least another season, and Cannon would presumably be eligible for PUP and probably is not going to contribute much if at all this season anyway. That leaves Solder as the only guy who doesn't fit on the roster either as an ST guy or a planned non-contributor, and I think he's also the most likely to start the season as a starter.

    Random fact: The Pats coaches credited Morris, Woodhead, and Green-Ellis with a total of 25 ST tackles, so they are definitely willing to throw RBs out there on kick coverage.
  22. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The big rumor a couple of weeks ago was only a TC roster increase, from 80 all the way to possibly as much as 90.

    Supposedly (at least as of about 2 weeks ago) that was it--no 53 man increase was even remotely being discussed.

    Their big rationale was that no one has really missed anything yet, besides a weekend mini-camp; and supposedly BOTH sides felt that as long as the new CBA was taken care of before any TC was missed, there was simply no reason to make things any more complicated for the negotiations that are already way too complex.

    Of course, that was about 2 weeks ago, so maybe they will change their minds. I remember there being several articles, and a posted link (at least I thought) somewhere. I will see if I can find it, and post it for you.

    I agree that an increase of at least 1-2 players would be appropriate, hopefully maybe it'll happen.
  23. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think that there are several big questions regarding the CBA.

    1) Salary Cap
    2) Salary Floor
    3) How "Dead Money" from players cut is handled. (Supposedly a big issue for the players and it would directly affect the salary cap and Salary floor)
    4) Roster Size (personally, I've always felt that with a Salary Cap, you don't need to limit roster size, the cap will do it for you)
    5) Any changes to the Franchise Tag (Rumors that the O-Line is going to be broken down by position - benefits owners)
  24. doesntmatter1

    doesntmatter1 Rookie

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    For me i wanna see the rookie pay scale. Also, on a side note I feel like the salary cap is a joke sometimes. If they increase the cap by 10 mil then all qbs are about to get an 8 mil raise thats why I think this cash floor sounds more fair than simply raising the cap.
  25. Spiral

    Spiral PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If they raise the floor to 90% or more of the cap, then you can probably kiss Mankins good-bye. There will be a lot of cheap owners out there who will have to spend money, and most of these teams (Jax, Carolina, TB, Cinn, etc.) have young QB's, so they may think that the best place to spend the money is on an o-lineman. Some team will offer him something in the $8-$9M range on day 1.

    Raising the floor may also encourage the cheaper teams to cut high-priced players who have large cap hits. That will count against their cap, getting them closer to the cap floor, without increasing the actual amount of cash going out the door. Some big names may find themselves looking for a job before the season starts.

    Also, for a team with 2 firsts and 2 seconds in the next draft, the length of rookie contracts is important issue for the Patriots.
  26. Frick

    Frick Rookie

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    My question is: Can BB send an envelope to all the agents of the UDFA's that he's interested in, and on the front it says, "From Bill Belichick - URGENT, URGENT, URGENT - Not to be opened until 4 days after the CBA is ratified"?
  27. Spiral

    Spiral PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think the evaluation period for UDFAs is going to be so short that I'm not sure any will have much of a chance--unless the rosters are expanded quite a bit, or a number of guys end up with pulled groins, hamstrings, etc. (which could happen).
  28. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Any that matter will all be signed within 24 hours of the time that that negotiations are allowed. Envelopes; how quaint! All agents will be contact by electronic means within a few minutes after it is allowed.

  29. AndyJohnson

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    That still doesnt answer why an expanded roster would address that concern.
    If Light isnt coming back then the 4 tackles are Solder, Vollmer, Kaczur, Levoir.
    No, Levoir would not be the 60th guy. If we need to use our 5th OT as the starting LT we have bigger problems than missing OTAs.
  30. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    According to Chris Mortenson and Adam Schefter as currently as of today, the only roster changes will be the increasing number of the Training Camp roster.

    Instead of the usual 80, it will increase to 90, to give some more time for teams to assess the back ends and guys that they are considering.

    "12 days after ratification: Rosters will be set at 90 players."

    There is nothing at all anywhere about a 53 man increase, and I don't think there has been any talk of it for months now, since there was a minor amount of chatter in the very beginning of the lockout.

    As DaBruinz pointed out, the salary cap would take care of the roster limits anyway--especially if they return to a lessened or similar amount of the last cap in 2009--as expected. The increase of a 53 man roster would not coincide with the thinking of a more reasonable salary cap. In my opinion, it would only make it harder, and more of an issue.

    I'd be very surprised to see a 53 man increase, as there certainly would have been some hints of at least some negotiations by now. We've heard hints of everything else.
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