Don't expect any more laterals...

[sebman2112]

Remember when we played Pittsburgh a year or two ago and hines ward lateraled to a teammate and fumbled it to us? Yeah i think belicheck should show that video to welker.

Really, it's not something you're supposed to do unless your in a last second type situation. I wouldn't compare the lateral Welker handed to Moss with the one in the Pitt v Pats game though. He kind of tried to toss the ball backward to a player who wasn't expecting it. Welker almost handed the ball to Randy who seemed to be expecting it. Also, wasn't that Antwaan Randle El not Hines Ward?

 

[TripleOption]

Your missing my point triple, if you got nothing to lose (ie blowout) then there is nothing wrong with attempting a lateral. But from a fan's point of view, they are exciting. I said they probably shouldn't be attempted in a close game. I would probably have a heart attack if they attempted it against the Colts in a 1 possession game and I would also get pissed. But whats wrong with having a little fan/making entertainment when there is no competition in a game?

Because if you are ahead, why would you do that? Why bother?

 

[BradyManny]

What's a pitch play? Toss? An option? That was more like an option play. You do realize when you run an option play, there's a ton of practice involved, right? Usually one player (the QB) pitching to ONE other position (HB) from ONE angle. Do you know what proper pitch relationship is? How it works? What the coaching points are? What's good/bad? Moss's hands are irrelevant. What about the guy "pitching" it? does he know what he is doing? Is there a defender in the area?

Most Option coaches won't allow their QB to pitch downfield. Why? It's dangerous. One of the cardinal rules of the Triple is "Don't pitch under duress". Getting tackled (like Wes) is pitching under duress.

It's bad football, period. I will never "re-think it". More importantly, Belichick will never "re-think it". No NFL or College coach will ever re-think it.

Anyone who thinks that there should be more laterals in the NFL might as well be screaming "I know nothing about football" at the top of their lungs.

Dude, we get it. You know football. You're Bill Belichick with a Patsfan.com username. Jeezum H, tone down the self-righteousness. Nobody here is advocating more laterals, but I do think that what Welker did was understandable as an athlete and a playmaker. Does it make it right? Is it textbook? No, of course not, but how many great plays are predicated with bad fundamentals, high risk or stupidity? The answer, quite a few. If you think otherwise, you might as well scream "I've never played sports in my life" at the top of your lungs.

Instinct kicks in, and it did for Welker. If he had the time to THINK, he wouldn't have done it, but he didn't think, and it worked out in the given situation. Again, it doesn't make it right...it is what is is as BB would say.

 

[TripleOption]

Nobody here is advocating more laterals,

Uhhh...go back and read the other posts.

 

[TripleOption]

it is what is is as BB would say.

I think BB would call it "stupid football"

 

[BradyManny]

I think BB would call it "stupid football"

Of course he would, but there's a difference between a PLAYER and a COACH.

BB was very careful not to be hard on Welker for his decision in his press conference and on EEI, probably because he understands players are going to make decisions based on instincts.

 

[TripleOption]

Of course he would, but there's a difference between a PLAYER and a COACH.

BB was very careful not to be hard on Welker for his decision in his press conference and on EEI, probably because he understands players are going to make decisions based on instincts.

I think it's more likely because he believes to praise in public & criticize in private.

 

[FirstAndGoal]

Got to go with TripleOption on this one. You don't lateral like that unless the game is on the line. That's the only valid situation that I can think of.

 

[PYPER]

I think its a lot like when Brady completed a pass while sitting on his @ss a couple of years ago.

It made all the highlight shows but it's just not a smart play.

The next time he tried to do something similar, it ended up costing us the game.

The lateral, while successful this past week, could just as easily end in disaster. Belichick is doing the wise thing and preaching "smart" football. This team is good enough that it doesn't need plays like that. Plays like that could end up doing far more harm than good in the long run.

 

[BradyManny]

I think it's more likely because he believes to praise in public & criticize in private.

Fair enough...I'd just hate to see Welker get criticized for the play he made...it's easy for us to say it's a stupid play sitting from our armchairs.

 

[Fencer]

Remember when we played Pittsburgh a year or two ago and hines ward lateraled to a teammate and fumbled it to us? Yeah i think belicheck should show that video to welker.

I thought that was Randle-El.

But in fairness to the comparison, ARE did not seem to check whether the recipient actually expected the ball.

EDIT: I see somebody beat me to it.

 

[Fencer]

One puts plays in the playbook for two reasons:

1. They might work.
2. The fact that you might try them gives the defense one more thing to defend against, and thus softens them up for everything else you do.

However, I don't see where a lateral has any merit by Criterion #2. It either has to stand on its merit by Criterion #1, or it shouldn't be in the playbook.

And for reasons stated by others in this thread, I have trouble convincing myself that it meets that standard.

 

[Ring 6]

I said when it happened, that wont be happening again. Very unlike a BB team.

 

[JoeSixPat]

During BB's press conference, he hinted that he did not think Welker's lateral was a good decision.

First he said he already talked about it after the game, then he reiterated his stance on it.

Belichick: It wasn't the best play I've ever seen. It wasn't the worst play I've ever seen.

<pause>

Belichick: It could have been a lot worse, though.

Sounds like a typical "non-answer answer" from Belichick.

Need I point out the obvious?

Given BB's comments, if I'm an opposing DC I'm assuming that BB is designing a lateral play as we speak.

The play one would never expect is exactly what another team SHOULD expect.

 

[ironwasp]

Need I point out the obvious?

Given BB's comments, if I'm an opposing DC I'm assuming that BB is designing a lateral play as we speak.

The play one would never expect is exactly what another team SHOULD expect.

Interesting proposition. The problem with it is, I really wonder how any DC could prepare for a team that used the lateral regularly... Still I guess if one or two of them spend a couple of hours trying, that's 120 minutes they're not using to think about how to defend Randy Moss.

 

[Deus Irae]

What's a pitch play? Toss? An option? That was more like an option play. You do realize when you run an option play, there's a ton of practice involved, right? Usually one player (the QB) pitching to ONE other position (HB) from ONE angle. Do you know what proper pitch relationship is? How it works? What the coaching points are? What's good/bad? Moss's hands are irrelevant. What about the guy "pitching" it? does he know what he is doing? Is there a defender in the area?

Most Option coaches won't allow their QB to pitch downfield. Why? It's dangerous. One of the cardinal rules of the Triple is "Don't pitch under duress". Getting tackled (like Wes) is pitching under duress.

It's bad football, period. I will never "re-think it". More importantly, Belichick will never "re-think it". No NFL or College coach will ever re-think it.

Anyone who thinks that there should be more laterals in the NFL might as well be screaming "I know nothing about football" at the top of their lungs.

There is a reason why the hook and lateral play is in most, if not every, team's playbook. Teams also have the flea flicker in the repertoire. There is also a reason why teams run the option, especially in college. As I said, it depends upon situation and personnel. You went off half-****ed about my post instead of actually reading it, apparently.


The person here who seems to be "screaming" is you.

 

[Tyler.Durden]

It's a "dangerous" play because it is rarely ever attempted. If it were part of the game it would be extremely successful. The problem is there is very little creativity in football. It's a lot of tactics, not much of thinking your feet. And because it's not really part of the game players are rarely ready for it and have practise it, so it's poorly executed. The name of the game is low rick most gain, this fall in the high risk category, much like a rb throwing a pass like LT, unless it's practised.

BTW is moss had run that one if for a td was it a rush or reception?

 

[TruthSeeker]

Look...no coach will EVER coach a player to lateral unless it is a last second, desperation type of play. It's unsafe, unsound, and just fundamentally awful. To even suggest that players do it more often is to scream out that you just don't understand football. Please stop.

On the other hand, it could be that coaches are trained to always think safety first and not actually open their minds to techniques and innovations that will improve their chances of winning.

As several statistical analysis have shown, coaches should be going for it on 4th down much more than they do - but they don't. Why? Because no one else is. It's possible that laterals are highly underused in the NFL for similar reasons - because no one else is doing them and coaches prefer safe and predictable to the unpredictable.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Anyone who thinks that there should be more laterals in the NFL might as well be screaming "I know nothing about football" at the top of their lungs.

I find it interesting that there is a game (rugby) where laterals are one of the most important skills and used extremely effectively throughout the entire game while there is a similar game where the use of a lateral is considered so risky as to almost always be considered a bad play - even when it works.

I think that this speaks more of closed minds than true usefulness of the lateral.

 

[TripleOption]

There is a reason why the hook and lateral play is in most, if not every, team's playbook. Teams also have the flea flicker in the repertoire. There is also a reason why teams run the option, especially in college. As I said, it depends upon situation and personnel. You went off half-****ed about my post instead of actually reading it, apparently.


The person here who seems to be "screaming" is you.

The hook and ladder play is a designed, called lateral is and usually only used in circumstances of desperation.

As far as teams running the option, AGAIN, the pitch when running the option is only run by one player (QB), pitching to one position (HB) in a specific place (on the LOS) with a specific "pitch relationship". It is not a willy nilly, down the field, whenever you feel like it type of play...Why? Because it is dangerous! The most unsafe phase of the option is the pitch, and where you will see the most turnovers.

Again, all this discussion is irrelevant, because BB, every other NFL coach and every other College coach would never, ever coach their players to lateral unless it was a late in the game, desperation situation.