Dolphins still Complaining....

[patriotspride]

shouldnt this thread be in the visiting locker room?

 

[Aqua4Ever04]

shouldnt this thread be in the visiting locker room?

It's refering to the Dolphins vs. Patriots game, it belongs here.

 

[NEPat]

The thing that bothers me is the fact Brady went to the bench and then came back in. Come on, what reason did they bench Brady? Because the game was in hand, bringing him back in is a slap in the face and pretty much saying we want to win by 21 and screw the opposing team.

Why even take Brady out in the first place if all they want to do is run up the score? If Cassel had managed to do anything but throw a pick six, he's in there the rest of the game. Belichick was furious with Cassel, that's the reason Brady's back in the game.

I have no issue with people saying the Pats have run up the score in some games this year. I think they definitely have, but I honestly did not see it in this Miami game. I really didn't.

And the only reason this is even an issue is because everyone hates Belichick. No one talked about running up the score when the Colts were the ones doing it and Peyton was trying for the record.

And another thing! These opposing players do a hell of a lot of whining. If the Pats get their brains beat in, they're not going to complain about how the opposing team was so mean. I cannot imagine a Brady or a Vrabel making comments about how classless an opposing team was for scoring a lot of points. If these teams take exception, fine, use it as motivation for the next time they play the Pats. Don't whine to the media.

 

[Aqua4Ever04]

Why even take Brady out in the first place if all they want to do is run up the score? If Cassel had managed to do anything but throw a pick six, he's in there the rest of the game. Belichick was furious with Cassel, that's the reason Brady's back in the game.

I have no issue with people saying the Pats have run up the score in some games this year. I think they definitely have, but I honestly did not see it in this Miami game. I really didn't.

And the only reason this is even an issue is because everyone hates Belichick. No one talked about running up the score when the Colts were the ones doing it and Peyton was trying for the record.

And another thing! These opposing players do a hell of a lot of whining. If the Pats get their brains beat in, they're not going to complain about how the opposing team was so mean. I cannot imagine a Brady or a Vrabel making comments about how classless an opposing team was for scoring a lot of points. If these teams take exception, fine, use it as motivation for the next time they play the Pats. Don't whine to the media.

Yeah that's my issue, why yank Brady is you don't have faith that the game is over? Why not go to the 3rd string guy as they did later in the game?

I think the reason you don't see Pats players whining is because they aren't allowed. Bilichick is a media nazi when it comes to giving them any information or allowing his players to talk with them for that matter.

Do you think if the Chargers had done something similar to what the Patriots did after beating San Diego they would've complained? The reason you get all these lashings and outcrys is because the Pats have a history of dismissing class.

 

[Metaphors]

That argument is flawed. When do you see a team getting rolled sit their starters?

In every single sporting event since the beginning of time. You can't be seriously telling me you think that teams getting blown out (in any sport) keep their starters in until the end? Do you watch sports?

The reason you sit your starters is because the game is in hand and the only thing playing your starters gives you is risk.

Oh yeah. I forgot. Teams getting crushed in a game are immune to injury. Given that there was a 0% chance of Taylor getting a season ending injury in a game that couldn't be won, I guess it does make sense he was in there.

The trailing team has work to do whether it's put up points and attempt a come back or work to get better for the next week.

What did the Dolphins accomplish? They now know they can effectively shut down a QB that has thrown 80 meaningful passes SINCE HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!! Maybe get your backups some meaningful minutes...since in your case those backups are likely to be starters sooner rather than later.

You don't bench your starters to preserve them when you're getting spanked, perhaps you bench them for lack of production, but that's generally not the case with JT.

I guess you don't watch sports.

The thing that bothers me is the fact Brady went to the bench and then came back in. Come on, what reason did they bench Brady?

To get their backup QB some meaningful minutes.

Because the game was in hand, bringing him back in is a slap in the face and pretty much saying we want to win by 21 and screw the opposing team.

So you wanted Cassel to stay in with 10+ minutes to go. Three handoffs straight up the middle burns 2 minutes. Dolphins have 8+ minutes to score 3 touchdowns. I mean really...when have we seen a crappy offense (Texans) score that many points that quickly (15 in 5:20, 29 in 12:30) against a good defense (Titans)? Oh yeah...THE SAME DAY!!!!! And that was with a punt, interception and opposition FG during that time.

I don't blame you for wanting the opposition to bench their starters while you keep yours in the game. I've heard stranger recipes for success. Let me know how that works with the Giants. Cheers!

 

[NEPat]

Yeah that's my issue, why yank Brady is you don't have faith that the game is over? Why not go to the 3rd string guy as they did later in the game?

He did have faith the game was over, that's why he pulled Brady. He puts Brady back in because Cassel is giving points to another team. That's pretty much it.

And I have no problem being honest about the fact that I think at times this year the Pats have run it up. So that's what I honestly don't believe it happened in this game. I was shocked that everyone was talking it about it after the game, which leads me to believe the only reason anyone cares is because of Belichick. No one would care, and history with the Colts has shown, no one does care when it's other teams running it up.

I think the reason you don't see Pats players whining is because they aren't allowed. Bilichick is a media nazi when it comes to giving them any information or allowing his players to talk with them for that matter.

Sure, Belichick is a media nazi. But I am 100% certain someone like Brady can say whatever the f he wants to. And I have never once heard him publicly cry about something as ridiculous as the other team scoring a bunch of points against the Pats and being 'classless'.

Do you think if the Chargers had done something similar to what the Patriots did after beating San Diego they would've complained? The reason you get all these lashings and outcrys is because the Pats have a history of dismissing class.

No I absolutely do not think they would have complained. After losing an AFC playoff game at home where they are favorites, they would've complained about the other team's celebration? Belichick would've had all their heads.

Now I'm not saying players don't privately care about stuff like this. The Pats use everything and anything as motivation. But they don't, and never have, cry to the media. They just don't.

 

[Aqua4Ever04]

In every single sporting event since the beginning of time. You can't be seriously telling me you think that teams getting blown out (in any sport) keep their starters in until the end? Do you watch sports?
Which is more likely, the team ahead sits starts, or the team behind?


Oh yeah. I forgot. Teams getting crushed in a game are immune to injury. Given that there was a 0% chance of Taylor getting a season ending injury in a game that couldn't be won, I guess it does make sense he was in there.
What does an 0-6 team have to lose?


What did the Dolphins accomplish? They now know they can effectively shut down a QB that has thrown 80 meaningful passes SINCE HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!! Maybe get your backups some meaningful minutes...since in your case those backups are likely to be starters sooner rather than later.
I think you leave them out there to teach them a lesson that we aren't giving up under any circumstances.


I guess you don't watch sports.
Okay, and you know this how? Other then the occasional South Park or episode of The Office, I only watch NFL network and ESPN/ABC/FSN when sports are on.


To get their backup QB some meaningful minutes.



So you wanted Cassel to stay in with 10+ minutes to go. Three handoffs straight up the middle burns 2 minutes. Dolphins have 8+ minutes to score 3 touchdowns. I mean really...when have we seen a crappy offense (Texans) score that many points that quickly (15 in 5:20, 29 in 12:30) against a good defense (Titans)? Oh yeah...THE SAME DAY!!!!! And that was with a punt, interception and opposition FG during that time.
You don't think the Pats could've achieved any first downs on the worst run defense in the NFL?

I don't blame you for wanting the opposition to bench their starters while you keep yours in the game. I've heard stranger recipes for success. Let me know how that works with the Giants. Cheers!

My answers in bold.

 

[Aqua4Ever04]

He did have faith the game was over, that's why he pulled Brady. He puts Brady back in because Cassel is giving points to another team. That's pretty much it.
I just say don't yank him in the first place.

And I have no problem being honest about the fact that I think at times this year the Pats have run it up. So that's what I honestly don't believe it happened in this game. I was shocked that everyone was talking it about it after the game, which leads me to believe the only reason anyone cares is because of Belichick. No one would care, and history with the Colts has shown, no one does care when it's other teams running it up.
As I said in an earlier post, I think it's more about the history of the Pats dismissing class.


Sure, Belichick is a media nazi. But I am 100% certain someone like Brady can say whatever the f he wants to. And I have never once heard him publicly cry about something as ridiculous as the other team scoring a bunch of points against the Pats and being 'classless'.
Isn't the Patriot way that no one is bigger than the team? Why does Brady get these privelages?


No I absolutely do not think they would have complained. After losing an AFC playoff game at home where they are favorites, they would've complained about the other team's celebration? Belichick would've had all their heads.
We can't really argue about who is right right here but I just think in the heat of the moment, a player may have spouted off.

Now I'm not saying players don't privately care about stuff like this. The Pats use everything and anything as motivation. But they don't, and never have, cry to the media. They just don't.

My answers in bold.

 

[CheerforTom]

This is just ridiculous. Unless you're accusing New England of running up the score IN THE FIRST HALF, they got a total of one score in the rest of the game. The only reason they got that was to ensure that the Dolphins didn't get a big momentum swing and threaten the lead. It's happened before in Miami.

Thread done.

 

[NEPat]

Isn't the Patriot way that no one is bigger than the team? Why does Brady get these privelages?

For all the talk about Belichick never letting anyone get away with anything, he does let his veterans get away with more than the rookies. It's always been that way. Belichick isn't Tom Coughlin.

And if Brady ever wanted to say something controversial (and the closest he's come were the Deion Branch comments critical of the FO) he could because he's the franchise QB. I've read comments from guys like Vrabel and Seymour and Asante that a rookie on this team could never say without being shot.

They do preach that no one is bigger than the team, and the only way this possibly works is because their star, Brady, is about the best possible player to coach. If this team had a Ryan Leaf like QB, it would never work. Brady has the least ego of any star player you will ever see.

 

[BTTA]

Belichick should show some class and respect for his opponent and co-workers. Then again, he's never been one known to do so, well at least his players. But then again, players are just a reflection of their coach.

Please provide a real example. Not something created by the press or opposing teams out of frustration, jealousy, or a desire to make a living by creating a fog of controversy. Something that really happened, that you are sure of your facts and interpretation, where BB showed a lack of respect for his opponent and co-workers.

And while you are thinking, read this from Jim Brown:

"....But never since the times of slavery has there been a time when there weren't white families reaching out. During the slave period, there were free houses for slaves owned by whites. The NAACP was created by a white woman. Branch Rickey was as important as Jackie Robinson. Throughout our program you'll find people in different races doing all they can do. There are special people who fight for the right thing."

Patriots head coach Bill Belichick is one of them, Brown said. Belichick met Brown when Belichick was head coach in Cleveland. Since, Belichick has done several speeches and appearances for Amer-I-Can. The bond between the two men remains strong.

"He's been an unbelievable force," said Brown. "After five minutes with Bill, we became friends. We have the same desire to win, the same work ethic. We think the same. He is a special person and a lot of people don't understand how special he is."

 

[Hollywood_Brady]

the dolphins should stop complaining, they are professionals, they are not payed to whine, theyre payed to play at a high level w/c apparently they are not doing... if someone has to complain its the finfans getting their tickets back...

to justify what BB said about bringing brady back... having a 3TD lead changes the mindset of our defense than having a 2TD cushion... it eases off the pressure to perform and make plays, and puts more pressure to the opponents to take risks, thus making mistakes to take advantage of...

 

[Aqua4Ever04]

Please provide a real example. Not something created by the press or opposing teams out of frustration, jealousy, or a desire to make a living by creating a fog of controversy. Something that really happened, that you are sure of your facts and interpretation, where BB showed a lack of respect for his opponent and co-workers.

And while you are thinking, read this from Jim Brown:

"....But never since the times of slavery has there been a time when there weren't white families reaching out. During the slave period, there were free houses for slaves owned by whites. The NAACP was created by a white woman. Branch Rickey was as important as Jackie Robinson. Throughout our program you'll find people in different races doing all they can do. There are special people who fight for the right thing."

Patriots head coach Bill Belichick is one of them, Brown said. Belichick met Brown when Belichick was head coach in Cleveland. Since, Belichick has done several speeches and appearances for Amer-I-Can. The bond between the two men remains strong.

"He's been an unbelievable force," said Brown. "After five minutes with Bill, we became friends. We have the same desire to win, the same work ethic. We think the same. He is a special person and a lot of people don't understand how special he is."

Did you watch the playoff game in San Diego last year? Did you hear about spy gate? How about Belichick assaulting camera men while they were doing their job when he was going to meet Mangini after a game? I don't care what Jim Brown says, those things happened.

 

[AFPatsFan12]

Anyone who took note of the fourth quarter of the Titans/Texans game can see why it was perfectly reasonable to bring Brady back in to seal the win. Could the Patriots have run the ball 15 straight times for 5 first downs and ground out 10 minutes of clock? Maybe, but when you've been throwing the ball so well all day, why even take the chance? I love Kevin Faulk, but he still has very suspect hands. So you hand the ball to Faulk, he gets popped, Phins scoop and score, all of a sudden it's a 14 point game. Why take that chance when the passing game has been so deadly?

And also (I'm not sure if this has been brought up yet in this thread), but isn't it more a sign of respect for a team to CONTINUE playing, knowing full well that the outcome is still very much in doubt? By making it known that BB feels Miami can overcome a 21 point 4th quarter came, he is showing "respect" (even if it is undue respect). Not that it matters to me either way, mind you...they're professionals, play the damn game....

 

[BTTA]

Did you watch the playoff game in San Diego last year? Did you hear about spy gate? How about Belichick assaulting camera men while they were doing their job when he was going to meet Mangini after a game? I don't care what Jim Brown says, those things happened.

These three things, even if taken to the worst possible interpretation, don't justify your broad characterization. You would be justifiably labeled with far worse if your life were deconstructed and interpreted in this manner.

Your Dolphins are terrible. The Patriots are very good, and have been, and as an organization are one of the most remarkable stories in history of sports. Your disappointment and frustration about this is causing you to be resentful and spiteful. Not good for the soul or the cardiac system. Take a breathe. Learn to meditate.

But let's look at the three individual incidents you've selected:

I watched the SD game, yes, and two players got a little out of hand (as compared to what other players in the league do regularly, including SD players at Gillette) and were scolded for it by their coach (a guy named BB). And this has real meaning? This stuff happens every Sunday, and always has. You have just painted every coach of every team in the NFL, past and present, with this same brush of being low class and disrespectful of his colleagues.

"Spy gate" was nothing more than BB doing something for 1/3 of a game longer than every other team in the league, including your Dolphins. He had a legitimate interpretation of the rule (have you even read the rule?) that differed from the Commish's, and paid a price for the mistake. You really think this taping deal stands out as different from actions coaches take every week in the NFL? You are unbelievably naive. And in this case, nothing was gained. Only those with an agenda against BB would make a big deal of this.

"Assaulting" a camera man? A guy got in his way while he was doing his job (trying to shake hands with another coach) and he got surprised and pushed him out of the way. Then apologized. Every person I have ever met has done something out of impulse that they later regret. It's called being human. The difference is that BB's life is under a microscope, in part because he is successful in a highly competitive industry, which generates resentment.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

Did you watch the playoff game in San Diego last year? Did you hear about spy gate? How about Belichick assaulting camera men while they were doing their job when he was going to meet Mangini after a game? I don't care what Jim Brown says, those things happened.

My Gawd, you really are as stupid as advertised!

The San Diego playoff game? Oh, you mean Hobbs mocking Shawne Merriman for the dance he uses to mock opposing QBs? Uh, huh....

SpyGate? Oh, yeah, you mean Belichick's differing approach and interpretation to an administrative fiat? Well, the last word hasn't been spoken on that. This rambunctious commish will sooner or later (probably sooner) find himself in a pickle for handling that the way he did.

Assaulting cameramen? You mean the same people who inventing the brouhaha of the "non-handshake" in the first game last year, and proceeded to dump all over him? Neither I nor he has a problem with someone "who was just doing their job", but doing that job does not mean he has the right to get in the way. Besides, too often today, the press becomes too much a part of stories that pass for "news". This example you've offered up is yet another goose egg of yours.

As others have said, this is professional football, where big, violent men seek to make their living visiting mayhem on others, to the lusty cheering of capacity crowds. Good teams are supposed to beat bad teams. In fact, if given the opportunity and motivation, most sports fans recognize they should beat the living bejesus out of them.

For many years - nay, decades - this franchise was a laughing stock, succored only by a most faithful fan base. As in all things in life, sports and sports teams run in cycles. Your team had a long moment in the sun that including lopsided wins against many other teams, including this one. That cycle has turned so that we are now having our moment in the sun.

Anyone can say good things and do good things when times are good. But a man's (and a team's) character is tested most when the chips are down.

Look within before attacking without. Your team isn't there yet, but that is not the fault of the Patriots, their organization, or their fans.

This insane, politically-correct issue of not hurting the other team's feelings by scoring more points than them should be left on the playgrounds of our socially dysfunctional schools, because it has no place in real life.

 

[Aqua4Ever04]

My Gawd, you really are as stupid as advertised!

The San Diego playoff game? Oh, you mean Hobbs mocking Shawne Merriman for the dance he uses to mock opposing QBs? Uh, huh....

SpyGate? Oh, yeah, you mean Belichick's differing approach and interpretation to an administrative fiat? Well, the last word hasn't been spoken on that. This rambunctious commish will sooner or later (probably sooner) find himself in a pickle for handling that the way he did.

Assaulting cameramen? You mean the same people who inventing the brouhaha of the "non-handshake" in the first game last year, and proceeded to dump all over him? Neither I nor he has a problem with someone "who was just doing their job", but doing that job does not mean he has the right to get in the way. Besides, too often today, the press becomes too much a part of stories that pass for "news". This example you've offered up is yet another goose egg of yours.

As others have said, this is professional football, where big, violent men seek to make their living visiting mayhem on others, to the lusty cheering of capacity crowds. Good teams are supposed to beat bad teams. In fact, if given the opportunity and motivation, most sports fans recognize they should beat the living bejesus out of them.

For many years - nay, decades - this franchise was a laughing stock, succored only by a most faithful fan base. As in all things in life, sports and sports teams run in cycles. Your team had a long moment in the sun that including lopsided wins against many other teams, including this one. That cycle has turned so that we are now having our moment in the sun.

Anyone can say good things and do good things when times are good. But a man's (and a team's) character is tested most when the chips are down.

Look within before attacking without. Your team isn't there yet, but that is not the fault of the Patriots, their organization, or their fans.

This insane, politically-correct issue of not hurting the other team's feelings by scoring more points than them should be left on the playgrounds of our socially dysfunctional schools, because it has no place in real life.

Calling me stupid and justifying a player going to the middle of another team's field and mocking them isn't going to render a response. I guaran-damn-tee if Jason Taylor went to mid field at Gillete with a video camera and taped Cam Cameron making calls, you guys wouldn't like it. Those players need to learn class and I don't see any bit of correction by the head coach.

I'm not going to read the rest of your post until you can learn to converse with someone without insulting their character because of their opinions and view points.

 

[Aqua4Ever04]

These three things, even if taken to the worst possible interpretation, don't justify your broad characterization. You would be justifiably labeled with far worse if your life were deconstructed and interpreted in this manner.

Your Dolphins are terrible. The Patriots are very good, and have been, and as an organization are one of the most remarkable stories in history of sports. Your disappointment and frustration about this is causing you to be resentful and spiteful. Not good for the soul or the cardiac system. Take a breathe. Learn to meditate.

But let's look at the three individual incidents you've selected:

I watched the SD game, yes, and two players got a little out of hand (as compared to what other players in the league do regularly, including SD players at Gillette) and were scolded for it by their coach (a guy named BB). And this has real meaning? This stuff happens every Sunday, and always has. You have just painted every coach of every team in the NFL, past and present, with this same brush of being low class and disrespectful of his colleagues.

"Spy gate" was nothing more than BB doing something for 1/3 of a game longer than every other team in the league, including your Dolphins. He had a legitimate interpretation of the rule (have you even read the rule?) that differed from the Commish's, and paid a price for the mistake. You really think this taping deal stands out as different from actions coaches take every week in the NFL? You are unbelievably naive. And in this case, nothing was gained. Only those with an agenda against BB would make a big deal of this.

"Assaulting" a camera man? A guy got in his way while he was doing his job (trying to shake hands with another coach) and he got surprised and pushed him out of the way. Then apologized. Every person I have ever met has done something out of impulse that they later regret. It's called being human. The difference is that BB's life is under a microscope, in part because he is successful in a highly competitive industry, which generates resentment.

I don't get it. What more examples do I have to prove. It's not generalization or anything of that matter, it's what happened, it's fact.

I understand what's going on with the Dolphins, I understand they're a team in rebuilding and the product on the field hasn't been up to my liking.

On that same token, I understand my most hated rival is having a ton of success. Rather than looking for outs or some form of a scapegoat, I like to look at things objectively and I can admit that even myself I don't always take off the homer glasses.

Now that the rose-tinted shades are off, I still feel the same way about the class of your coach, players and organization.

I've seen T.O, Ray Lewis possibly some others do what the Patriots did but that's a far cry from saying every NFL player has done that. Some players have planned TD celebrations, that's fine, let them do their thing when they score. But when you go to the middle of the field of your opponent and mock them is in no way okay by me. How would you feel if someone came into your living room and mocked your relegion or something of that sort?

I don't believe the Patriots have been exonerated from this whole spy gate thing. I think there's a little more too it and I don't think it should be taken as lightly as it appears to being taken.

Call it what you want, but striking a man is never excuseable by any measure.

 

[FirstAndGoal]

Here's the plain simple truth Aqua. I pay for tickets to see Brady play. I don't pay to see Cassel play. If you want less embarrassment, play better.

Your 72 team beat us 52 - 0. Your starters were in through the 3rd quarter event though it was 31 - 0 at the half and didn't come out until it was 38 -0. Del Gaizo went into the game in the 4th quarter. Is Shula classless?

Also, to top it off, the last 3 scores were passes and they weren't short ones. You guys had your backup throwing 40 and 50 yard touchdown passes.

 

[Aqua4Ever04]

Here's the plain simple truth Aqua. I pay for tickets to see Brady play. I don't pay to see Cassel play. If you want less embarrassment, play better.

Your 72 team beat us 52 - 0. Your starters were in through the 3rd quarter event though it was 31 - 0 at the half and didn't come out until it was 38 -0. Del Gaizo went into the game in the 4th quarter. Is Shula classless?

More red herring here at Patsfans, stay on topic.

You pay to see Brady, or do you pay to see the Pats win. So by your standards you want Brady in 60 minutes a game under any circumstance. How would you have felt if Brady got hurt with 1 minute to play in a 49-28 game?

I don't know much about football from the 70's, I've seen games, I've seen highlights and all that jazz but I'm not familiar with the culture of football in the 70's. I do, however, know what football is all about in this century and I know that going back to Brady is a classless move by Belichick.