Do you want to pay Mankins big money?

[IllegalContact]

The evidence is pretty strong that Mankins has misstated what transpired. He implied there had been no serious offer from the Patriots; reality is that he just disputes the terms (and hence fairness) of the Patriots' offer.

The one who's thrown him under the bus is his agent, who leaked aspects of the Patriots' offer.

all his agent said was that it was 20% less.

a league source gave the 7m/yr which could be a bogus number given how certain offers can be backloaded with low guarantees.
6M signing bonus 7yr/49m deal......
1 - 3M
2 - 3M
3 - 4M
4 - 7M
5 - 8M
6 - 9M
7 - 10M

turns out to a 5M/yr deal if he is cut after 3 years.

if the 7m/yr number is accurate, this is the only way it could cause someone to throw a hissy fit this way

 

[ausbacker]

all his agent said was that it was 20% less.

a league source gave the 7m/yr which could be a bogus number given how certain offers can be backloaded with low guarantees.
6M signing bonus 7yr/49m deal......
1 - 3M
2 - 3M
3 - 4M
4 - 7M
5 - 8M
6 - 9M
7 - 10M

turns out to a 5M/yr deal if he is cut after 3 years.

if the 7m/yr number is accurate, this is the only way it could cause someone to throw a hissy fit this way

It was reported to be a 5 year deal for 7 million average which totaled 35 million. A little reading never hurts.

 

[IllegalContact]

It was reported to be a 5 year deal for 7 million average which totaled 35 million. A little reading never hurts.

whatever

the same point still applies. you can simply twist the numbers in that manner:
5M in guarantees
1 - 3M
2 - 3M
3 - 5M
4 - 9M
5 - 10M

works out pretty much the same.

I can tell your brain doesn't work unless every little thing is spelled out literally, so here you go

 

[ausbacker]

whatever

the same point still applies. you can simply twist the numbers in that manner:
5M in guarantees
1 - 3M
2 - 3M
3 - 5M
4 - 9M
5 - 10M

works out pretty much the same.

I can tell your brain doesn't work unless every little thing is spelled out literally, so here you go

So you're commenting without bothering to research the Patriots-Mankins predicament? I'm not sure if I should roll on the floor laughing or feel apathy for you.

 

[IllegalContact]

So you're commenting without bothering to research the Patriots-Mankins predicament? I'm not sure if I should roll on the floor laughing or feel apathy for you.

I know what you know. which is pretty much nothing

 

[ausbacker]

I know what you know. which is pretty much nothing

So if you know what I know why did you post bogus back loaded contracts to stress a point considering you don't appear to have a grasp of the fundamentals of the case? What we do know is what's been speculated in terms of contract offers and starting points for comparison.

Not a smart thing to do...

 

[IllegalContact]

So if you know what I know why did you post bogus back loaded contracts to stress a point considering you don't appear to have a grasp of the fundamentals of the case?

Not a smart thing to do...

what is a smart thing to do? just assume the front office is right and blame mankins?

it wasn't bogus, it was theoretical. if it is indeed a 7m/yr deal, there has to be some detail about it to cause him to go ballistic.

so what are the fundamentals of the case?

 

[JohnVM]

I support paying mankins big money but not the biggest money. It seems like he wants to set the new bar for highest paid guard by what he's been saying, if he takes 7/49 as an insult.

 

[Synovia]

I support paying mankins big money but not the biggest money. It seems like he wants to set the new bar for highest paid guard by what he's been saying, if he takes 7/49 as an insult.

7/49 doesn't mean anything at all.

What matters to players is the number over the first 3 years. There's a very real chance that the patriots offered him 7/49, and its still an insulting contract.


Jahri Evans gets $26M over the first 3 years. Mankins may be getting an offer that only has $18M or so in the first 3 years, but is still worth $50M.

We just don't know, and the total amount is pretty much irrelevant.

 

[RayClay]

What matters to players is the number over the first 3 years. There's a very real chance that the patriots offered him 7/49, and its still an insulting contract.

I keep waiting for people to insult me like that, what am I doing wrong?

 

[IllegalContact]

7/49 doesn't mean anything at all.

What matters to players is the number over the first 3 years. There's a very real chance that the patriots offered him 7/49, and its still an insulting contract.


Jahri Evans gets $26M over the first 3 years. Mankins may be getting an offer that only has $18M or so in the first 3 years, but is still worth $50M.

We just don't know, and the total amount is pretty much irrelevant.

it is relevant if the lions share of the money comes in the last year or 2 which means he likely will not see it

 

[Synovia]

I keep waiting for people to insult me like that, what am I doing wrong?

Not having any talent.

 

[Synovia]

it is relevant if the lions share of the money comes in the last year or 2 which means he likely will not see it

You're agreeing with me. The total amount is irrelevant. The only relevant amount is the money in the first 3 years.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

7/49 doesn't mean anything at all.

What matters to players is the number over the first 3 years. There's a very real chance that the patriots offered him 7/49, and its still an insulting contract.


Jahri Evans gets $26M over the first 3 years. Mankins may be getting an offer that only has $18M or so in the first 3 years, but is still worth $50M.

We just don't know, and the total amount is pretty much irrelevant.

Where are you getting the numbers on the Evans deal? All I can find on it is the $12M in signing bonus and $7M in 2010 salary. No further mention of guarantees because NO released no details, and with a lockout looming first three average is misleading... He could be cut after this season with a dead cap of $10M which even spread over 2 future capped seasons isn't prohibitive against a $130M+ cap vs. paying out another $7-12M. The real measure is guaranteed money. Just ask Tom. First three is meaningless when you end up playing out the last 3.

Reiss after talking to him seems to think the problem in this case is Mankins had convinced himself he was going to get top of the market money to reward him for playing out his rookie deal. And top 5 money wasn't ever gonna cut it once he convinced himself of that.

 

[IllegalContact]

Where are you getting the numbers on the Evans deal? All I can find on it is the $12M in signing bonus and $7M in 2010 salary. No further mention of guarantees because NO released no details, and with a lockout looming first three average is misleading... He could be cut after this season with a dead cap of $10M which even spread over 2 future capped seasons isn't prohibitive against a $130M+ cap vs. paying out another $7-12M. The real measure is guaranteed money. Just ask Tom. First three is meaningless when you end up playing out the last 3.

Reiss after talking to him seems to think the problem in this case is Mankins had convinced himself he was going to get top of the market money to reward him for playing out his rookie deal. And top 5 money wasn't ever gonna cut it once he convinced himself of that.

what I have read is that evans gets 30M over the first 3 years. don't know if it is true or not, but if mankins' deal is giving him 15-18M over the first 3 years, you could see a problem

 

[RayClay]

Not having any talent.

Perhaps, but I think I have enough brains to put that insult in the bank while I had the chance, does Logan?

 

[ausbacker]

Where are you getting the numbers on the Evans deal? All I can find on it is the $12M in signing bonus and $7M in 2010 salary. No further mention of guarantees because NO released no details, and with a lockout looming first three average is misleading... He could be cut after this season with a dead cap of $10M which even spread over 2 future capped seasons isn't prohibitive against a $130M+ cap vs. paying out another $7-12M. The real measure is guaranteed money. Just ask Tom. First three is meaningless when you end up playing out the last 3.

Reiss after talking to him seems to think the problem in this case is Mankins had convinced himself he was going to get top of the market money to reward him for playing out his rookie deal. And top 5 money wasn't ever gonna cut it once he convinced himself of that.

Sources: Evans deal worth $56.7M

"The contract is worth $56.7 million and Evans will receive $19 million in the first year and $25.7 million over the first three years of the deal, sources told ESPN's NFL Insider Adam Schefter".

Appears it's OK to use sources when it suits argument but not use sources when it doesn't suit argument MoLewisrocks. But don't let that little tidbit fool you from the Logan Mankins is conducting his business well brigade.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Appears it's OK to use sources when it suits argument but not use sources when it doesn't suit argument MoLewisrocks. But don't let that little tidbit fool you from the Logan Mankins is conducting his business well brigade.

If the rumor is true that the Patriots deal called for rolling in his RFA tender (so really a 6 year $38M+ deal or Deion redux) he might have a point unless the other rumor is true that the whole deal included $25M in guaranteed money (Deion couldn't get $12M). Guaranteed money trumps first three unless the signing bonus implicitly guarantees you see year 3, and the $12M Evans got isn't enough to since the remaining dead money of <$7M split over two capped seasons would be manageable were they to cut him.

Still, nothing remotely in the range of insulting or lies unless you inexplicably convinced yourself that the NEP were gonna offer you top of the market for simply honoring a rookie deal which like most rookies you felt you'd outperformed...

 

[JMarr]

what is a smart thing to do? just assume the front office is right and blame mankins?

it wasn't bogus, it was theoretical. if it is indeed a 7m/yr deal, there has to be some detail about it to cause him to go ballistic.

so what are the fundamentals of the case?

He already went somewhat ballistic a month or two ago when he said he was so mad he couldn't see straight. Assuming the Patriots' current offer was less than Mankins reasonably was led to believe (by whomever) that he was worth, or structured so that he was going to get less in bonuses, I wonder if that had anything to do with it.

Either way, he has effed himself (two times now) by going public like this. If they do in fact end up trading him to a team willing to commit high draft picks as well as more money than is being offered [given that there's total uncertainty about a lockout in 2011] then I'll stand corrected.

 

[mgteich]

I guess two probowls is now a normal expectation for rookie contracts.

If the rumor is true that the Patriots deal called for rolling in his RFA tender (so really a 6 year $38M+ deal or Deion redux) he might have a point unless the other rumor is true that the whole deal included $25M in guaranteed money (Deion couldn't get $12M). Guaranteed money trumps first three unless the signing bonus implicitly guarantees you see year 3, and the $12M Evans got isn't enough to since the remaining dead money of <$7M split over two capped seasons would be manageable were they to cut him.

Still, nothing remotely in the range of insulting or lies unless you inexplicably convinced yourself that the NEP were gonna offer you top of the market for simply honoring a rookie deal which like most rookies you felt you'd outperformed...