Do you want to pay Mankins big money?

[RayClay]

And again, $6/48 IS NOT BREAKING THE BANK. IT IS AVERAGE PAY FOR A FREE AGENT STARTING GUARD.

This is a smaller deal than what the Jets gave Faneca, the Saints gave Evans, Steinbech, Huchinsons, even Leonard Davis got more money than this.


You have no idea what players in the NFL actually make.

Like I said, tell me the day Belichick is concerned with how much other teams pay.

You said 8 million dollars a year is the average pay for a free agent guard. I doubt that seriously.

 

[RayClay]

Wilfork's numbers are irrelevant. Hannah is irrelevant. The significant question is about the relevance of Evans and his contract.



Everyone wants to get paid. Mankins is just another in the line. Bodden wasn't great value. Also, Wilfork was paid top dollar for his position, so I'm not sure why you would bring that up.



How many times do we have to go over this before you people will stop with this sort of nonsense? You can't just plug-n-play. The past couple of seasons should have demonstrated that more than clearly enough, particularly to yourself, given your frequent ranting about the linebacker situation.



Probably every single time one signs or a contract comes due. BB's too smart not to think about it.

Wilfork is virtually irreplaceable in a 3-4. A good guard is very replaceable in the NFL.

If I have to set a salary structure, I'd say that's very relevant.

 

[Deus Irae]

Wilfork is virtually irreplaceable in a 3-4. A good guard is very replaceable in the NFL.

If I have to set a salary structure, I'd say that's very relevant.

I haven't noticed any of the Neal "replacements" being good. I must have missed that one offensive snap.

 

[Synovia]

Wilfork is virtually irreplaceable in a 3-4. A good guard is very replaceable in the NFL.

If good guards were very replaceable, there wouldn't be a half a dozen guards making $7M+/year.

There are.

 

[RayClay]

If good guards were very replaceable, there wouldn't be a half a dozen guards making $7M+/year.

There are.

That's faulty logic. People have over drafted and overpaid receivers for years, yet many top receivers weren't in that category.

We are lucky to have a coach/gm who is an economics major and realizes that all that matters is the utility for us and our salary structure of paying a certain amount for the player.

Opposing agents want to judge as you do, and he laughs. What is his value to our team. What is the replacement cost in the short and long term. What is the best overall use of payroll. He couldn't care a whit what other tea,s pay and why should he?

 

[RayClay]

I haven't noticed any of the Neal "replacements" being good. I must have missed that one offensive snap.

You mean the free agent wrestler? He's making 8 million a year, just like all the guards, right?

 

[Synovia]

That's faulty logic. People have over drafted and overpaid receivers for years, yet many top receivers weren't in that category.

So? The point is that the NFL feels a receiver CAN BE WORTH that money, just as they feel a guard CAN BE WORTH that amount of money. Teams aren't going to pay a guard $50M if a guard can't possibly be worth that much money. The fact that they pick the wrong guy is irrelevant.

 

[Deus Irae]

You mean the free agent wrestler? He's making 8 million a year, just like all the guards, right?

How is that salary relevant to the the assertion of "A good guard is very replaceable" when there are no viable replacements (barring a shift of Kaczur from OT to OG or enormous improvement by one of the stiffs currently serving as backups) on the team?

Oh, right.... it's not.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

He does? How about Adalius Thomas? Or Chad Scott? Or Duane Starks?



Also, this isn't breaking the bank. Its pretty much going rate for an FA guard who doesn't suck ass.

None of the players you mentioned got an unreasonably huge contract from BB. I am not discussing in hindsight how their career turned out, because contract decisions are simply not made in hindsight. Adalius turned down a lot more money to play here, nobody considered his Pats contract a blind reach at the time. In hindsight you can certainly draw different conclusions but life operates in real time, not in hindsight. BB never made any concession to these players to make them the highest paid player at their position, or to offer them more than the going market rate for their service at the time.

I never said that Reiss's offer broke the bank. I said that BB would not break the bank for Mankins, and BB apparently did not. He may have offered just a tad less than the Reiss deal. Since I don't question BB's ability to make these value decisions, I see no real breakings news on the front office end. They offered Mankins damn good money and he doesn't want to be here anymore.

 

[JDSal45]

Wasn't Mankins himself in 2005 a "replacement" (pick #32...unknown) for a big money, upper tier guard who went for the dollars (Damien Woody)?

J D Sal

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Wasn't Mankins himself in 2005 a "replacement" (pick #32...unknown) for a big money, upper tier guard who went for the dollars (Damien Woody)?

J D Sal

No, Koppen was the 2003 replacement for Damien Woody, the center who struggled with the shotgun snap but went to Detroit in 04 for the big bucks and bombed...although he's now a guard in NY.

Mankins replaced Andruzzi whom they didn't extend after 04 preferring to upgrade opposite Neal taking over as RG in 2004. Haven't won a damn thing since...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Like I said, tell me the day Belichick is concerned with how much other teams pay.

You said 8 million dollars a year is the average pay for a free agent guard. I doubt that seriously.

Synovia is using some faulty logic. He's applying 3 year average to guys who didn't last 3 years (Faneca) and guys now well beyond it (Hutchinson - who got a boatload up front because the vikings had $31M in cap to spend and the Seahawks were up against theirs). Jhari Evans is getting a $12M signing bonus and $7M in salary this year. His TOTAL guaranteed money on his new deal is...$19M... His 7 year average if he plays to 34 will be $8.1M. If they cut him next season his dead cap if there is one will be $10M. Might be enough to implicitly guarantee he sees whatever is in years 2 and 3, or it might not be.

Just because Haynesworth got $41M guaranteed doesn't mean that's the market for DT's. It just meant Snyder was an idiot...again. Bill doesn't ascribe to idiot driven market value calculations and he never will. That doesn't make him cheap, just makes him not stupid.

 

[JDSal45]

No, Koppen was the 2003 replacement for Damien Woody, the center who struggled with the shotgun snap but went to Detroit in 04 for the big bucks and bombed...although he's now a guard in NY.

Mankins replaced Andruzzi whom they didn't extend after 04 preferring to upgrade opposite Neal taking over as RG in 2004. Haven't won a damn thing since...

Ok, that's right. Actually Woody is a tackle now in NY.

In any event, Andruzzi got a decent contract, had been a starter for 3 years and they found someone to be his replacement, Mankins. Who now there is pronunciations of doom about were he to leave.

J D Sal

 

[mgteich]

If guards are so relaceable, why is there such a dropoff when Neal is injured?

Personally, I think that we should pay him what Reiss suggests. But I don't think that we will. As with Seymour, we will get some two year in the future pick and will be saying how great a deal we got. Or perhaps, we will just take a 2011 2nd since guards are so easy to find. Perhaps the replacement will be an all-pro in 2012 or 2013. In the meantime, we will play the OL less its strongest member.

And yes we can play 2011 with Light or Ohrnberger or Connolly at left guard.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

If guards are so relaceable, why is there such a dropoff when Neal is injured?

Personally, I think that we should pay him what Reiss suggests. But I don't think that we will. As with Seymour, we will get some two year in the future pick and will be saying how great a deal we got. Or perhaps, we will just take a 2011 2nd since guards are so easy to find. Perhaps the replacement will be an all-pro in 2012 or 2013. In the meantime, we will play the OL less its strongest member.

And yes we can play 2011 with Light or Ohrnberger or Connolly at left guard.

Wah.............. It's always the same with you mg. I think since 2006 Bill has focused more on drafting for versitile, backup depth with the potential he hits another developmental starter like Neal. Seeing as he nailed two starters in 2005. Mankins was the first first round guard he ever drafted. I'm sure if he makes his mind up to replace Mankins in the next draft he will do so within the first two rounds. Probably should have done that this year only they seemingly again miscalculated on depth of ego, as they did with Branch and Asante. Guys who care more about getting paid what they perceive themselves to be worth as opposed to just winning football games have been the bane of this dynasty. That's why Pioli used to stress that it wasn't a deep pool we select from. Mankins was scouted to be a second or third round draft pick. He was ecstatic when he was tapped in the first round and landed in the midst of a championship run. Funny how soon they forget.

 

[RayClay]

Just because Haynesworth got $41M guaranteed doesn't mean that's the market for DT's. It just meant Snyder was an idiot...again. Bill doesn't ascribe to idiot driven market value calculations and he never will. That doesn't make him cheap, just makes him not stupid.

You have a way with words.

BB and Co. spend a lot of time deciding what players value is to us and what it would cost to replace near and far term.

He's pretty confident, and pretty damned successful at it too. Couldn't care less about the hype.

Also, the Soap Operas each contract time aren't going to get less dramatic, so we might as well ride with them.

Vince is unappreciated, Randy's on his way out cause we don't pay and, of course the first offer is always an insult.

 

[IllegalContact]

No, Koppen was the 2003 replacement for Damien Woody, the center who struggled with the shotgun snap but went to Detroit in 04 for the big bucks and bombed...although he's now a guard in NY.

Mankins replaced Andruzzi whom they didn't extend after 04 preferring to upgrade opposite Neal taking over as RG in 2004. Haven't won a damn thing since...

yes, yes. it is because of mankins :singing:


well....they would have won another one in 2006 had they kept deion branch

if there's no winning to be had here, then its time to go get the money where it can be had

 

[IllegalContact]

Wah.............. It's always the same with you mg. I think since 2006 Bill has focused more on drafting for versitile, backup depth with the potential he hits another developmental starter like Neal. Seeing as he nailed two starters in 2005. Mankins was the first first round guard he ever drafted. I'm sure if he makes his mind up to replace Mankins in the next draft he will do so within the first two rounds. Probably should have done that this year only they seemingly again miscalculated on depth of ego, as they did with Branch and Asante. Guys who care more about getting paid what they perceive themselves to be worth as opposed to just winning football games have been the bane of this dynasty. That's why Pioli used to stress that it wasn't a deep pool we select from. Mankins was scouted to be a second or third round draft pick. He was ecstatic when he was tapped in the first round and landed in the midst of a championship run. Funny how soon they forget.

actually, mankins was drafted pretty close to where he was expected to go, and some mocks actually had mankins going to the pats in round 1. most of them had mankins gone by 40

 

[JoeSixPat]

Tell me what the rules of the next CBA are and I'll give my answer to the poll.

I suspect Kraft and company feel the same way I do and might be concerned about giving out too many big contracts without knowing the cap implications. They might see the necessity of getting long term deals done with some players, allowing other contracts to run their course until there's more clarity over the next CBA.

If I had to choose between getting a deal done with Mankins or getting a deal done with Brady, I'll get Brady's done and let Mankins continue to whine about playing out his rookie contract.

 

[Deus Irae]

Tell me what the rules of the next CBA are and I'll give my answer to the poll.

I suspect Kraft and company feel the same way I do and might be concerned about giving out too many big contracts without knowing the cap implications. They might see the necessity of getting long term deals done with some players, allowing other contracts to run their course until there's more clarity over the next CBA.

If I had to choose between getting a deal done with Mankins or getting a deal done with Brady, I'll get Brady's done and let Mankins continue to whine about playing out his rookie contract.

His rookie contract expired. He's a free agent. Because of the rules of the uncapped year, he's an RFA when he would ordinarily have been a UFA. That's really the crux of the problem. Allowing that RFA extension was a huge mistake by the NFLPA, and it's causing all sorts of problems for the players.