Do people's perceptions change in the off season?

Discussion in ' - Patriots Fan Forum' started by BrickPat, Feb 7, 2013.

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  1. BrickPat

    BrickPat Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    I use the example of Welker (note- this is not another Welker thread, just using him as one example). I don't think anyone dismissively shrugged their shoulders and thought "big deal" while sitting in their living room actually watching him make play after play. Now some are doing the same with Talib relative to his performance.

    It seems that the board shifts gears in the off season if there is a chance a major contributor type player may not be with the team next season. You know, when player X goes to another team, or if there is a chance he might be released, the once impressed fans shift into "meh, he isn't/wasn't that good" mode.

    Obviously people make evaluations once the season is over but some act as if certain players can be easily replaced. I realize cap implications and other matters factor into the off season equation, I'm strictly talking about people who dismiss players who clearly made a significant contribution to the team as easily replaceable. Admittedly there are many posters on this board who are 10x more knowledgble than I...maybe I'm the only one who sees this(?):confused:
  2. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Pro Bowl Player

    to me, rule #1 is that everyone is replaceable......even the QB....teams must evolve steadily, or they wind up like the Jets or Jags....and they can't lock themselves into anyone so much that it has a large effect on the rest of the roster both from a cap standpoint and a development standpoint.

    Just as an example:
    While Brady is by far the best option at QB at this moment, the end is coming, and there is value in transitioning to the next scheme both on your own terms (when someone else is read) from a development standpoint, and (when/if you can get substantial value in return while providing massive relief to your cap situation) from a cap mgt standpoint. I'm not saying they should pull the trigger now, but if someone shows up whith a herschel walker type deal, well, then the future is fuzzy, and you may suck for a year or 2, but you're stocked and ready for the next run. if someone shows up with a mutli pick/player deal for your best player (and highest paid), you have to consider everything.

    One could argue that they are leaning on brady to get them to the point where he leaves when the defense is dominant again......if you go back to 2001, seymour was the only newbie on that defensive roster.

    I would never say 'meh, he wasn't that good anyway' because every decision is made based on the notion on how that resource is going to be replaced.

    people said deion branch wasn't that good......and they were partially right, but his presence in 2006 would have likely given the pats another SB......but the 2007 season would have also been much different....everything would be different right now....little things have lasting effects
  3. Rob0729

    Rob0729 Supporter Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    As to the OP's comment about Talib. If you look at my posts during the season, my position on Talib hasn't hasn't changed. He is a decent but replaceable CB. He is very good in press coverage and absolutely horrible in zone coverage (I mean he likely to give up a big TD bad). If his last name was McCourty, many people on this board would want to run the guy out of town on a rail.

    As I said during the season, his contribution to the team was less his individual play and more what his addition did for the Pats to retool the secondary. Say McCourty went down and Talib replaced him rather than allowing McCourty to move to safety, I think this defense would have the same exact problems that it had prior to Talib's additions.

    Talib allowed the Pats to move McCourty to safety and Arrington to the star. That improved the secondary play exponentially by keeping Chung and Wilson (Wilson started the season strong and hit the rookie wall pretty quick) off the field. It also moved Arrington from the outside where he was arguably the worst starting CB in football and to the slot where his play improve also exponentially. Talib's addition improved multiple areas.

    I think the secondary is the #1 priority for this team in the offseason, but I don't think Talib is. They need to get a very good CB or safety in free agency or the draft, possibly both. I just think that unless Talib is going to come in for short money on a shorter contract, there is no reason to bring him back. There are better CBs out there if you are going to pay through the nose.
  4. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Pro Bowl Player


    every player comes down to the simple question: 'as opposed to what?' given the salary cap.

    no player needs to be replaced at par, because you have consider what else you might be able to address with additional resources when someone is not retained.

    I personally don't think talib is going to ask all that much......I'm betting the recent 'pollution' in the media about talibs habits helps the pats keep him at a cheaper rate. the world see him now as something mildly better than when the pats gave up a 4th rounder for him.

    I read somewhere to expect a leigh bodden type of deal with maybe a higher end with more incentives.....I don't think they will be lining up for him

    but I don't think I will see him any differently if he is here or he is gone......wasn't around long enough to garner that kind of opiinon
  5. borg

    borg In the Starting Line-Up

    Adrian Peterson is a beast of a RB and Minny has built their offense featuring his talent. But in today's NFL, RB dominated offenses just don't get teams to the promised land.
    Wes Welker is the greatest slot WR of our time and NE has built an offense where he is featured in their short passing game. But as recent history has shown, top defenses have figured out how to contain NE's low risk, short pass offense.
    So the cutting analysis we are seeing this off season has less to do with Welker's greatness and more to do with redeploying his $$$$ so NE can strengthen their weaknesses and possibly alter offensive strategy with new personnel.
    Verses Baltimore, Brady completed just 53% of his passes in this small ball passing offense. Maybe, just maybe, the time has come to try something new.
  6. Sicilian

    Sicilian Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    I think it's natural to value a player more during the season because there are far fewer options for replacement if that player is lost. During the season, if Welker got injured, our options would be to play Edelman (assuming he didn't get hurt) which is a big dropoff, play Hernandez more in the slot which weakens another position and is still a dropoff, etc.

    In the offseason, if a player leaves, there is a plethora of options available to the team to make up for his absence. They can try to find another talented slot receiver, or try to balance it out by improving their outside receivers and mid to long range receiving options. There's no guarantee you'll successfully make up for the loss, but it's a hundred times more likely you can do that in the offseason rather than midseason. Hence the change in value perception.
  7. WhiZa

    WhiZa Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    I agree on trying something new. I thought the Pats did a good job instituting the running game this year and the 4-3 last year. What will next year bring?
  8. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae Retired Jersey Club Supporter

    Disable Jersey

    People [highlight]do[/highlight] evaluate players. Some players really [highlight]are[/highlight] more easily replaced than others. The cap implications [highlight]do[/highlight] matter. Talib's play was at a CB1 level, but it wasn't anything special, and the improvement in the secondary was possible because Dennard became the starter and McCourty was moved to safety as a result of having a player like Talib around much more so than being about specifically having Talib himself on board.

    So, basically, Welker > Slot WR1, whereas Talib = CB1.
  9. aluminum seats

    aluminum seats In the Starting Line-Up

    I don't think you're wrong, but I'm not sure it's an offseason phenomenom only. Generally speaking, it's a healthy impulse not to get too attached to any single guy. The problem with that is that fans can lose sight of the fact that some guys SHOULDN'T be taken for granted.

    To put it another way, the Pats really should resign Welker.
  10. patriot1136

    patriot1136 On the Game Day Roster

    #11 Jersey

    I can easily say I'm too attached to some guys while taking other guys for granted. Football is a crazy sport though, always evolving.
  11. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- Supporter

    #24 Jersey

    As always I root for the uniform and I expect Belichick to change things every year in an effort to stay ahead. Now if he could only sign players who would stay healthy through the playoffs his boat would be named "5 rings" by now.
  12. Sicilian

    Sicilian Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Isn't it already named 5 rings? I believe he counts the two he won as DC of the Giants.
  13. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks Supporter Supporter

    Yup, although the name is actually V Rings. Hmm...Maybe coach should refocus and rename it The Next Ring.
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