David Yudkin on Marc Bulger and the Patriots starting QB

[PatsWickedPissah]

I don't know if throwing O'Connell to the dogs is the answer to fixing this season.

Considering the shape of the OL and the quality of the pass rushing we will probably be seeing going forward, it would probably do more harm than good to his progress.

That's probably close to BB's thinking. Throwing even talented rooks to the dogs early on tends to ****** their development, not accelerate it. Not how even the extremely talented Brady first had a year in the system and when unexpectedly thrust into the lineup how slowly with dink & dunk and runing game the Pats brought him along in 2001. It's possible to develop bad habits under intense duress that you're not prepared for. Better to let Cassel who should certainly know the playbook and options deal with the OL protection and run game issues.

Assuming that Maroney is not a shattered glass, let's see if Cassel can again win with a runing game and a D who comes prepared to play.

 

[SVN]

Assuming that Maroney is not a shattered glass, let's see if Cassel can again win with a runing game and a D who comes prepared to play.

nobody really respects our running game because we are not very consisent in the o line blocking for the run. if we had a pitts/denver style running attack which is usually dependable then this defense and QB are adequate. the fins loss also had a bad rushing day for our team for which there is no one to blame except the o line and the backs.

 

[primetime]

Actually, he said aren't.

Re-read it.

"When I asked specifically about Bulger I was told that anything is possible but was not told "no, they aren't looking into it."

He was not told that they aren't looking into it. Meaning they didn't come out and say "yeah we're not interested," but they didn't say they were either.

I'm not sure how this is abnormal from the Patriots' normal MO. I'm sure he's been considered, but his contract probably puts him way out of reach.

 

[AzPatsFan]

I don't know if throwing O'Connell to the dogs is the answer to fixing this season.

Considering the shape of the OL and the quality of the pass rushing we will probably be seeing going forward, it would probably do more harm than good to his progress.

Wow, an intellegent thought among all the dross.

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

I've read Yudkin's stuff at footballguys.com and it does seem like he has inside sources based on what he's written in the past. I didn't read the Bulger stuff, but I did read his O'Connell thread yesterday. He's predicting a QB change sometime around games 7-9. Obviously O'Connell will have to ramp up the number of snaps he takes in practice in order for this to take place, so this should be worth noting in the next few weeks.

Regards,
Chris

 

[BadMoFo]

The negativity is getting so bad around here that I'm considering taking a hiatus from the forum until I feel it's right to come back. I'm not even going to argue this anymore. If they put O'Connell in... fine. At least he's used to not being protected at all by his offensive line.

We were bad before, we'll be bad again. I think many people here are just so new to following the Pats that they do know how to react, other than whine about it.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I've read Yudkin's stuff at footballguys.com and it does seem like he has inside sources based on what he's written in the past. I didn't read the Bulger stuff, but I did read his O'Connell thread yesterday. He's predicting a QB change sometime around games 7-9. Obviously O'Connell will have to ramp up the number of snaps he takes in practice in order for this to take place, so this should be worth noting in the next few weeks.

Regards,
Chris

If we DO change mid-season it's because the season is tanked and even my pessimistic 9-7 outlook will be at risk. I must be over-reacting to last Sunday's utter team collapse.

 

[signbabybrady]

I must be over-reacting to last Sunday's utter team collapse.

You wouldn't be alone.

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

If we DO change mid-season it's because the season is tanked and even my pessimistic 9-7 outlook will be at risk. I must be over-reacting to last Sunday's utter team collapse.

Actually, I think a change will be an indictment of the offensive line, not Cassel.

I've always thought Brady makes the offensive line look better than it really is, save for the first half of last year when it truly was outstanding. Without Brady, the warts on the OL are truly showing. Opponents consider it a weakness. Cassel has a hard enough job stepping in and it might be too much to ask of him to run this offense and take the beating that he has so far. If you think "throwing O'Connel to the wolves" would be a bad idea, having Cassel beat to a pulp weekly as a first-time starter isn't a great alternative.

What would O'Connell bring to the table that Cassell doesn't? He can run...well. He's used to playing behind an awful offensive line at SDSU and still make things happen. It wouldn't shock me if the Pats installed a Mike Vick offense for the guy, calling plays specifically to use his feet to either run for yards or throw on rollouts. This would probably help in the running game as well as the LBs would have to spread out to cover the outside rollout/running lanes.

If the OL blocked like it did in September/October of last year, I'm positive we don't have this conversation as the Pats would give Cassel all the time in the world to get his reads down. He just can't do that right now while bracing for the inevitable hit. O'Connell just might be the better fit to QB this team with this OL and it wouldn't shock me if BB is thinking the same thing.

Regards,
Chris

 

[primetime]

We were bad before, we'll be bad again. I think many people here are just so new to following the Pats that they do know how to react, other than whine about it.

Some of us here remember the old days and never want to go back, though.

 

[Kontradiction]

We were bad before, we'll be bad again. I think many people here are just so new to following the Pats that they do know how to react, other than whine about it.

They are called bandwagon fans. Fans that expect perfection week in and week out. I suspect most of them just came along last year. I'm not whining about it because, while I'm not old enough to remember 1990, I do remember the late 90's and early 00's (pre-Brady) with this team. I just wish people would use logic and realize that putting a rookie quarterback in a starting line-up behind an offensive line so porous that it could be mistaken for a strainer is a huge mistake. He's just not going to come out and set the world on fire. Let Cassel get used to the system. We all said he would start slowly but now that he has, people are *****ing. So what else are we going to do? Insert O'Connell who probably only has a clue about the system and lose three more games all the while some are saying "give him a chance to learn the system!" and others are saying "he sucks! Replace him with [insert available/disgruntled free agent here]"? Sorry, but that does not sound like the better alternative to me. I'd rather put O'Connell in there when/if the season is officially lost.

 

[ayjackson]

Because it is an obviously stupid option.

What a dumb statement by Yudkin. He raises the Bulger issue. Pats say no and he goes on to say it's a consideration. On what basis other than his imagination? Cretin!

Actually he said the Pats told him anything was possible...

When I asked specifically about Bulger I was told that anything is possible but was not told "no, they aren't looking into it."

....apparently there was a second page to this thread - sorry for the redundancy.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Actually, I think a change will be an indictment of the offensive line, not Cassel.

I've always thought Brady makes the offensive line look better than it really is, save for the first half of last year when it truly was outstanding. Without Brady, the warts on the OL are truly showing. Opponents consider it a weakness. Cassel has a hard enough job stepping in and it might be too much to ask of him to run this offense and take the beating that he has so far. If you think "throwing O'Connel to the wolves" would be a bad idea, having Cassel beat to a pulp weekly as a first-time starter isn't a great alternative.

PWP It's not a great alternative but I think BB sees O'C as the future #2 and Cassel as here for 2008 only. Brutal but may be true.

What would O'Connell bring to the table that Cassell doesn't? He can run...well. He's used to playing behind an awful offensive line at SDSU and still make things happen. It wouldn't shock me if the Pats installed a Mike Vick offense for the guy, calling plays specifically to use his feet to either run for yards or throw on rollouts. This would probably help in the running game as well as the LBs would have to spread out to cover the outside rollout/running lanes.

If the OL blocked like it did in September/October of last year, I'm positive we don't have this conversation as the Pats would give Cassel all the time in the world to get his reads down. He just can't do that right now while bracing for the inevitable hit. O'Connell just might be the better fit to QB this team with this OL and it wouldn't shock me if BB is thinking the same thing.

Regards,
Chris

I agreed with others who jokingly but truthfully said that O'C has more 'experience' playing behind a lousy OL. Again, Cassel sits mid-season only if we're out of the hunt or he's injured.

 

[RussFrancis]

I dont care what information or opinions the guy has. No way am I ever listening to a COWBOYS fan's take on the New England Patriots. That somehow violates my football 'principles'. But that's just me.

 

[Leave No Doubt]

My thoughts on this are in another thread-basically I said the Pats are presenting as vulnerable and desperate right now, in the eyes of other teams anyway. They smell blood and they'll go right for the jugular every time. Playing QB roulette just reinforces that perception, and if we thought teams were out to get BRADY, just imagine what they'd do with O'C. And Gutz. My uninformed opinion is that BB puts out a solid front and sticks with Cassel. My hope is he's taking a long hard look at the OL before he worries about QB x,y,or z.

This team's never been perceived as this vulnerable, that I can remember anyway. BB won't do anything to make them appear to lack confidence, not in this league. I vote he stays the course.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

My thoughts on this are in another thread-basically I said the Pats are presenting as vulnerable and desperate right now, in the eyes of other teams anyway. They smell blood and they'll go right for the jugular every time. Playing QB roulette just reinforces that perception, and if we thought teams were out to get BRADY, just imagine what they'd do with O'C. And Gutz. My uninformed opinion is that BB puts out a solid front and sticks with Cassel. My hope is he's taking a long hard look at the OL before he worries about QB x,y,or z.

This team's never been perceived as this vulnerable, that I can remember anyway. BB won't do anything to make them appear to lack confidence, not in this league. I vote he stays the course.

Exactly. Bill might abandon Cassel if he believes he is part of the problem as well as not it's solution, but he would think long and hard about abandoning the system. Because that has long term ramifications. Not to mention short term ones as the caliber of player O'Connell scrambled away from at the helm of SDSU isn't remotely similar to the beasts who would be chasing him down in the NFL. That might work for a week or two, just like the Miami option, but it won't fly for long in a coaches league once they get you on film. He gave Brady 8 weeks of ups and downs (his and the teams) before he decided to stay the course. And that was at a time when he had far less cache as a HC who had won 3 championships here already. We were 5-5 coming off a loss at the time... His options then were a former pro bowl franchise QB and a highly thought of veteran backup with starting experience in the league. Not a raw develpomental rookie who was introduced to a pro style offense in May...

 

[Phlash]

Re-read it.

"When I asked specifically about Bulger I was told that anything is possible but was not told "no, they aren't looking into it."

He was not told that they aren't looking into it. Meaning they didn't come out and say "yeah we're not interested," but they didn't say they were either.

I'm not sure how this is abnormal from the Patriots' normal MO. I'm sure he's been considered, but his contract probably puts him way out of reach.

Oops. That's what I get for skimming over the article I guess

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Not to mention short term ones as the caliber of player O'Connell scrambled away from at the helm of SDSU isn't remotely similar to the beasts who would be chasing him down in the NFL.

On the flipside, the people protecting him at SDSU weren't as good as the ones who should be protecting him now, no matter how badly they played last Sunday.

 

[NEPatriot]

Cassuck day is numbering. It's good news. Make it quick.

 

[Leave No Doubt]

Honestly this league would eat O'C alive. He's got too much potential to risk throwing him out there in front of defenses like Philly's for example. Same with Gutz-really, who have these guys faced? Nobody. They looked great in preseason and that's all we know. BB actually cut Gutz and only resigned him after Brady went down-I hardly think he's The Choice, but he's good insurance. I really like O'C for the future, and I like him to get some play time this season too the way BB did on Sunday. Use him wisely and we'll reap the benefits later on.

BB's best option right now is exuding complete confidence in his choice of QB, for as long as he can. Every team out there, especially our division and other rivals- see an opportunity to swoop in for the kill, and the Miami game along with it's fallout, just reinforces that perception. Ugh-this will not be an easy road-schedule be damned.