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Compared to the 2008 Super Bowl Team

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by mgteich, May 15, 2009.

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  1. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Last year was aberration. We had no Brady at all and no Thomas after November 9th. We were a play away after the undefeated 2007 season. I think it appropriate to compare the 2009 to the Super Bowl team one of two years ago.
    ===========================================
    OFFENSE - The best ever could be bettered this year.

    QB - same old!!

    WR - Ater Moss and Welker, we had Gaffney, Stallworth, Brown, and Washington.
    I think that we are better with Galloway, Lewis, Aiken and Slater.

    RB - We were injured for the SB. We had Maroney, Faulk, Eckel and Evans.
    We are hugely superior with Maroney, Faulk, Taylor, Morris and Green-Ellis.

    TE - We had Watson, Kyle Brady and Spach
    We have improved to Watson, Smith and Baker.

    OL We still have all 10 offensive lineman that were on the roster for the Super Bowl. Hopefully, we will have some improvements with the new faces.

    ==========================================================

    DEFENSE - The big question mark

    DEFENSIVE LINE is slightly improved
    We had Seymour, Wilfork, Warren, Green, Smith and Rashad Moore
    Instead of Moore, we now have Wright and Brace.

    LINEBACKERS - weaker (and linebacker was our weakness in the 2007-2008 season)
    OLB: We had Thomas, Woods, Vrabel
    We are weaker with Banta-Cain and Crable instead of 2007 Vrabel.
    ILB: We had 2007 Bruschi, Seau, Alexander and Izzo
    We are as strong with Mayo, 2009 Bruschi and Guyton

    CORNERS - hopefully, a bit stronger
    We had Samuel, Hobbs, Gay and Spann
    We are stronger with Springs, Bodden, Wheatley, Wilhite and Butler

    SAFETIES - weaker
    We had Meriweather, Sanders, Ventrone, 2007 Harrison, Wilson, and Andrews
    We have Meriweather, Sanders, Ventrone, Chung, McGowan, and Tank Williams
    Chung and McGowan in place of Harrison and Wilson is not a good swap. Of course, Meriweather and James Sanders are better than in 2007.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2009
  2. jczxohn1

    jczxohn1 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    While the jury isn't even seated for the OLB position, things will be much better defined by the end of TC. IMO, ability to set the edge will play as big a role in who gets the job opposite AD as the ability to rush the passer. Pressure on the QB can come from a # of positions; only one guy can turn the run inside. If you count on the CB to do it, you're in trouble.

    You glazed over the O-line, IMO. We fans, as a group, like to point to the undefeated season and refer to the Super Bowl as having been decided by a circus catch and an errant drop by Samuels. I put it to you that we played the G's 3 times (including the exhib. game) and they kicked our a** all 3 times. They just didn't win the 2nd, even though they scored 30+ pts. and they were the one's to make the adjustments for the SB. We made none that were effective ,IMO, and our O-line gave up the worst beating Brady has ever had.

    With Brady coming off an injury that will make him more immobile than usual, this O-line has to have its best season ever or face rebuilding. The mantra "we will have Tom Brady back" is a fool's song, IMO. Without a 50-50 run-pass mix, and getting the ball to Taylor, Faulk, and possibly Maroney in open space, this O-line will be stressed to the max.
     
  3. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I glazed over the OL because we have the same OL that blocked for Brady and the team, leading us to the best offense in the history of the team, and perhaps that history of the league. The five have played together for these years, and are better than in 2007. Even the 2007 backups are still here: Hochstein, Yates, Connelly, Britt and O'Callaghan.

    My hope is that we may see improvement in the backups with the arrival of Johnson, Vollmer, Ohrenberger and LeVoir.

    You can choose who to blame for the 2008 Super Bowl loss. Apparently, you choose the offensive line. I don't. Some blame a fluke catch. Some blame an overmatched secondary. Some blame the lack of healthy running backs and linebackers. Some blame the doctors who apparently didn't require flu shots. Some blame the entire defense (and staff) for not being able to stop an 80 yard drive at the end of the game for the second year in a row.

    The bottom line with regard to the offensive line is that we are at least as good as 2007, our best offense ever. AND, we have potential improvements possible with all the new players in camp.

    IMHO, we didn't have sufficient depth at RB and LB in 2007. I believe that we now are fine at RB.

     
  4. patsfan-1982

    patsfan-1982 In the Starting Line-Up

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    they would be a better team if they go 11-5 make the playoffs and win the SB will they brake any racords i dont think so


    the WR maybe better as a whole but i dont think moss will have 25 TD


    if the running game can do the same as it did last year 142 a game that would be great

    the OL is the same and maybe deeper


    at TE i say the same


    as far as the defense go's


    the DL is deeper

    LB i dont think we can say its weaker cause we dont know they me be the best LB core since the 1985 SB team we know mayo and AD are all pro guyton played good vs the pass as a rookie and crable maybe the next willy mac

    CB i dont think Bodden is a up grade over samuel who was and still is one of the best corners in the NFL

    at S i think we are better harrison was way passed his glory day's on that SB team
     
  5. BlitzFritz

    BlitzFritz Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    are we really sure that we are better at WR this year? we have replaced Stallworth and Gaffney with Galloway and Lewis. I thought Stallworth was a terrific complement to Moss for a lot of the season. I suspect:

    Stallworth = Galloway
    Gaffney > Lewis

    Maybe Aiken + Slater is > Brown + Washington but they wont play much.

    Color me "I'll believe it when I see it"

    - FRITZ
     
  6. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    In the Super Bowl years we had one of the best linebacker units in football. We had Vrabel, McGinist, Bruschi, Johnson and Phifer. We had five linebackers that were feared throughout the league. BTW, the leading tackler among them was Phifer.

     
  7. stinkypete

    stinkypete In the Starting Line-Up

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    I don't expect this team to be better than the 2007 team, but it is deeper. Looking back to Super Bowl 42, injuries were part of our downfall. We were down Neal, K Brady and Morris. Faulk went down in the 2nd quarter. That left a gaping hole in the interior line and no suitable 3rd gown back. Essentially, we were reduced to a pass only team by necissity, not by design.

    That team harnessed some kind of magic during the first 10 games of the season that is unlikely to be repeated by any team. They also sputtered around Thanksgiving and became a 20-30 PPG team instead of a 35-50 PPG team. The defense was unreliable in close games because they really didn't need to make a stop all year. The 4th quarter of the Super Bowl was their first real pressure situation of the year. They put up big numbers only because they were given such big leads.

    I think that we will see in 2009 is more consistency on both sides of the ball and more versatility in our game plans. The defense can now come out in more looks, with the personnel to man a 3-4, 4-3, 3-3-5, 2-5-4, or whatever else causes the biggest matchup problems. A precieved deficiency at the OLB spot is just that, precieved, because this defense hasn't played a full time 3-4 in years. It's all situational, and with the depth on the DL and at SS, I feel fine in just about any situation.
     
  8. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't how we will have more consistency on offense than in 2007, unless you mean that you expect that the running game will be better later with healthy running backs and healthy offensive linemen.

    Also, I don't have any reason to believe that our 2009 defense should be expected to be more consistent than the 2007 defense, unless you expect less injuries.

     
  9. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Everyone forgets that Hochstein, their number one Offensive line reserve, was hurting before the Superbowl. Then early on Neal got hurt and couldn't play.

    So they had to put in the second substitute. Shortly thereafter, Faulk the best blitz pickup RB, also got injured.

    I think those three key injuries all at the same type of position is what allowed the Giants to eke out a victory. I'm not disparaging the NYG. They took advantage of their opportunities and won.

    But still...
     
  10. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Stallworth never was or will be the receiver that Galloway was. This is an upgrade, if Galloway has any speed left. But since he was the fastest man in the NFL at one time, he can slow down and not lose much. Moss was also rumored to be the fastest man as well. In any case, Speed Kills, and we have two accomplished #1 recievers playing opposite each other, with the number 1 slot reciver as well. Gaffney may be better than Lewis.
     
  11. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I would also note that in 2007, we really didn't use both Stallworth and Gaffney at the same time of year. We used Stallworth early and Gaffney late. It is as if we are replacing one player. Galloway may very well ahve the production of both Stallworth and gaffney put together. In any case, I expect at least as much production from Galloway and Lewis than we got in 2007 from Stallworth and Gaffney. We need not comparing careers. We are assessing expectations for 2009 compared to 2007.

     
  12. Sivy

    Sivy In the Starting Line-Up

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    galloway is gonna have a carreer year, bank on it.
     
  13. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I agree with mg... lots of improvements on offense. A better blocking TE now alone would be a huge improvement, and with the question of whether Stallworth was misused or incapable helping will never really be known seeing as he was injured last year and may never play again... so let's say Galloway is an improvement there too.

    While the loss of Vrabel compared to 2007 shouldn't be understated, let's not lose sight that comparing 2009 Vrabel to 2007 is a downgrade as well (if we'd kept him). If they make a trade to address LB this could be an area of improvement.
     
  14. KDPPatsfan85

    KDPPatsfan85 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Thats what i am thinking! Galloway having a "stable" QB will mean big things for this offense. How will the defenses double cover moss, welker, galloway, and taylor. I cant wait for the season to start!! This will be a record breaking year.
     
  15. jczxohn1

    jczxohn1 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Uemenora (sp), Tuck, and Strahan put on a pass rushing clinic that resulted in all 3 being in the backfield 1/2 the time. Tuck manhandled Mankins, period. There was no pocket, period. Watch it again.
     
  16. primetime

    primetime Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Mankins was called upon to block Strahan or Umeniyora in varying packages and honestly the guy he blocked did not get in, unless they went outside and faced only the tackle. Mankins, in no shape or form, was the problem; if there was any problem it was Kaczur. But the Patriots faced a similar pass rush from the same team in week 17 and won handily; the offensive line was never, ever a problem that year. There were many things that contributed to that loss, and the simple idea of whimsical luck was probably the biggest.

    This year's team should be a 12-4 team at the worst. There's no way they miss the playoffs. 16-0 is a historical rarity and probably won't happen... if it does, it does. We've seen the end of that before.

    But linebackers are the weakness. Thomas and Mayo are stars in their field, but the other half are weak. Crable will probably start with solid backing from TBC, a question mark backed up by a questionable starter we already have answers from. A Bruschi/Guyton combo at ILB probably won't do it. But every team has holes. We just have to hope we can handle injuries, that's become the biggest problem.
     
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