Celtics 2023 - 2024 Discussion

[RobertWeathers]

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Why? Are you saying they should be 68-0 if he wasn't on the team?

 

[Kdo5]

Yes but 23 ppg margin of victory? You can’t dismiss this as insignificant.

It’s a 54-14 basketball team with one of the best offenses in NBA history and strong defense.

They can win routinely without 3 of their 5 starters, especially against the dredges of the league. Yes it can and should be dismissed as insignificant.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Why? Are you saying they should be 68-0 if he wasn't on the team?

Nope.

I’m saying the team winning pct and margin of victory is higher without him. It’s true in the advanced stats, the on/off court, and the actual results when he’s out.

What’s their record against their toughest opponents in razor thin games?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Nope.

I’m saying the team winning pct and margin of victory is higher without him.

7 games? Not much of a sample size to hang an argument on.

In 1986 Scott Wedman started 19 games and they went 16-3. Kevin McHale started the rest and they went 51-12.

Their winning % was higher with Wedman.

It’s true in the advanced stats, the on/off court, and the actual results when he’s out.

I really think you are beating this drum a bit too loudly.

They are 54-14.

What’s their record against their toughest opponents in razor thin games?

Define "toughest opponents". Their record in close games this year is exceptional.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

7 games? Not much of a sample size to hang an argument on.

In 1986 Scott Wedman started 19 games and they went 16-3. Kevin McHale started the rest and they went 51-12.

Their winning % was higher with Wedman.

I really think you are beating this drum a bit too loudly.

They are 54-14.

Define "toughest opponents". Their record in close games this year is exceptional.

11-4 last season without him. 18-4 over last two seasons. Margin of victory of 23 ppg this season though…that’s enormous. Mock-worthy idea they’re better starting a different guy to avoid the Jaylen based offense?

I get mocked so am citing actual win/loss results in addition to the on/off and efficiency numbers.

I cite stats…nonsense, that proves nothing.

I cite actual results…nonsense, that proves nothing, or small sample size, even though the actual results reinforce the stats.

Everyone is confident now that they’ve beaten the crap out of some garbage teams. Just two weeks ago it was a different story because we know this team isn’t running over the Bucks, Pacers, Wolves, Thunder, or Nuggets in a 7 game series, and we know about the dogfight game flaws we don’t like to get into because they only pop up against playoff opponents.

What we don’t want to see is the team suddenly fall apart at the worst time in the postseason (like the Bucks last year.) Because as great as they are, they have a big flaw, which I hope they’re aware of. The Nuggets are aware of it, given their gameplan was to let Brown shoot like 30 times.

 

[RobertWeathers]

11-4 last season without him. 18-4 over last two seasons. Margin of victory of 23 ppg this season though…that’s enormous. Mock-worthy idea they’re better starting a different guy to avoid the Jaylen based offense?

I get mocked so am citing actual win/loss results in addition to the on/off and efficiency numbers.

I cite stats…nonsense, that proves nothing.

I cite actual results…nonsense, that proves nothing, or small sample size, even though the actual results reinforce the stats.

Everyone is confident now that they’ve beaten the crap out of some garbage teams. Just two weeks ago it was a different story because we know this team isn’t running over the Bucks, Pacers, Wolves, Thunder, or Nuggets in a 7 game series, and we know about the dogfight game flaws we don’t like to get into because they only pop up against playoff opponents.

What we don’t want to see is the team suddenly fall apart at the worst time in the postseason (like the Bucks last year.) Because as great as they are, they have a big flaw, which I hope they’re aware of. The Nuggets are aware of it, given their gameplan was to let Brown shoot like 30 times.

No.

Jalen Brown and his flaws will not be the reason this team poops it's collective pants in the playoffs.

The real flaw is their best player is indecisive in the clutch.

 

[Kdo5]

No.

Jalen Brown and his flaws will not be the reason this team poops it's collective pants in the playoffs.

The real flaw is their best player is indecisive in the clutch.

I haven't seen many flaws from Brown this year. He's cleaned up his game pretty much everywhere with free throws still a concern. However his turnovers have dipped to their lowest in five seasons along with better play making.

I do agree that Tatum needs to deliver. He absolutely can, it just has to happen.

 

[Kdo5]

11-4 last season without him. 18-4 over last two seasons. Margin of victory of 23 ppg this season though…that’s enormous. Mock-worthy idea they’re better starting a different guy to avoid the Jaylen based offense?

I get mocked so am citing actual win/loss results in addition to the on/off and efficiency numbers.

I cite stats…nonsense, that proves nothing.

I cite actual results…nonsense, that proves nothing, or small sample size, even though the actual results reinforce the stats.

Everyone is confident now that they’ve beaten the crap out of some garbage teams. Just two weeks ago it was a different story because we know this team isn’t running over the Bucks, Pacers, Wolves, Thunder, or Nuggets in a 7 game series, and we know about the dogfight game flaws we don’t like to get into because they only pop up against playoff opponents.

What we don’t want to see is the team suddenly fall apart at the worst time in the postseason (like the Bucks last year.) Because as great as they are, they have a big flaw, which I hope they’re aware of. The Nuggets are aware of it, given their gameplan was to let Brown shoot like 30 times.

The problem is that your analysis and understanding of basketball is pretty much centered entirely on advanced statistics. You don't consider anything else. There's more to sports than +/-. You get mocked because you have a raging hard on for posting about why JB is a liability. He's not. He's a damn good player who has helped this team team get deep into the playoffs on countless occasions. Yet crapping on him is 90% of your posts....with a 54-14 team.

He's a great player who helps this great team win basketball games. It's as simple as that and you simply cant accept it for whatever reason.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I haven't seen many flaws from Brown this year. He's cleaned up his game pretty much everywhere with free throws still a concern. However his turnovers have dipped to their lowest in five seasons along with better play making.

I do agree that Tatum needs to deliver. He absolutely can, it just has to happen.

Passing and dribbling into good spots are still my main concerns with Brown. Overall hes having a fantastic season.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

He's a great player who helps this great team win basketball games. It's as simple as that and you simply cant accept it for whatever reason.

It’s the opposite.

He’s a great athletic scorer who does not help his team win basketball games. I’m providing facts on both micro and macro levels. Can you refute these facts with anything other than your opinion, or citing someone else’s opinion? The irony is you can’t accept it.

 

[jimnance]

I haven't seen many flaws from Brown this year. He's cleaned up his game pretty much everywhere with free throws still a concern. However his turnovers have dipped to their lowest in five seasons along with better play making.

I do agree that Tatum needs to deliver. He absolutely can, it just has to happen.

Brown was terrible very early on the season.
But man did he turn it around with a vengeance!
He's been bigtime for most of the season. He has been the main reason for a # of C's wins.
He has great chemistry with his teammates, especially KP but with everyone else.
I played a lot of ball, so did @rw and @ice. Which I why I don't understand Ice's negative obsession with Brown.
Should be singing his praises for making major changes to his game to become a truly great player and yes,teammate.
Cmon Ice we are all C's fans. Did Brown bang your wife or gf?
Cuz I don't understand this. You have made legit points about Brown earlier in the year. But they no longer apply.
Most athletes and ex-athletes I know would celebrate a guy who's turned his game around like Brown did. Because we know how much work it involves and it shows the guy's heart,soul and mind are in the right place- as in helping the team reach its full potential.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The problem is that your analysis and understanding of basketball is pretty much centered entirely on advanced statistics.

Right…except win/loss record and off/off results.

You don't consider anything else.

See above.

There's more to sports than +/-.

See above.

You get mocked because you have a raging hard on for posting about why JB is a liability. He's not.

…just stop posting his stats, on/off, efficiency, or the the team’s performance without him and trust me!

He's a damn good player who has helped this team team get deep into the playoffs on countless occasions.

Probably…his game has regressed over the years because his volume has increased.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Passing and dribbling into good spots are still my main concerns with Brown. Overall hes having a fantastic season.

His flaw his style of play, including his strengths, in the modern NBA.

 

[RobertWeathers]

His flaw his style of play, including his strengths, in the modern NBA.

Thats garbage.

 

[Kdo5]

Probably…his game has regressed over the years because his volume has increased.

Only you and other people are invested in the anti-JB thing believe that. Most everyone else agrees he has improved every season with this one being his best yet.

 

[Kdo5]

Brown was terrible very early on the season.
But man did he turn it around with a vengeance!
He's been bigtime for most of the season. He has been the main reason for a # of C's wins.
He has great chemistry with his teammates, especially KP but with everyone else.
I played a lot of ball, so did @rw and @ice. Which I why I don't understand Ice's negative obsession with Brown.
Should be singing his praises for making major changes to his game to become a truly great player and yes,teammate.
Cmon Ice we are all C's fans. Did Brown bang your wife or gf?
Cuz I don't understand this. You have made legit points about Brown earlier in the year. But they no longer apply.
Most athletes and ex-athletes I know would celebrate a guy who's turned his game around like Brown did. Because we know how much work it involves and it shows the guy's heart,soul and mind are in the right place- as in helping the team reach its full potential.

There’s a thing about being so stubborn you refuse to admit you’re wrong. It’s a pride thing. Jaylen Brown could win NBA finals MVP and Ice will say he doesn’t deserve it, and that we’d have won with Sam Hauser starting too.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

There’s a thing about being so stubborn you refuse to admit you’re wrong. It’s a pride thing. Jaylen Brown could win NBA finals MVP and Ice will say he doesn’t deserve it, and that we’d have won with Sam Hauser starting too.

The Celtics are a better team without Jaylen Brown.

Why is it stubborn or idiotic to say this when the team’s record is better without him and most key players have a higher net rating with him off the court than on the court?

I’ve yet to hear an explanation for this is a sacrosanct viewpoint.

Russell Westbrook’s teams were better without him. This happens all the time in basketball depending on the team’s makeup. You guys can call me a hater sounds a lot like how you ran crawhammer off the board and then he was right about 99.9% of his hater agenda.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

It’s like in 2007 when a lot people had concerns about the Nick Kaczur, Asante Samuel, and Adalius Thomas but none of that mattered because they were cruising.

 

[rochrist]

The Celtics are a better team without Jaylen Brown.

Why is it stubborn or idiotic to say this when the team’s record is better without him and most key players have a higher net rating with him off the court than on the court?

I’ve yet to hear an explanation for this is a sacrosanct viewpoint.

Russell Westbrook’s teams were better without him. This happens all the time in basketball depending on the team’s makeup. You guys can call me a hater sounds a lot like how you ran crawhammer off the board and then he was right about 99.9% of his hater agenda.

The explanation is that you are an idiot.

 

[Kdo5]

The Celtics are a better team without Jaylen Brown.

Why is it stubborn or idiotic to say this when the team’s record is better without him and most key players have a higher net rating with him off the court than on the court?

I’ve yet to hear an explanation for this is a sacrosanct viewpoint.

Russell Westbrook’s teams were better without him. This happens all the time in basketball depending on the team’s makeup. You guys can call me a hater sounds a lot like how you ran crawhammer off the board and then he was right about 99.9% of his hater agenda.

Did any of us run “crawhammer” off the board? I don’t even know who that is, maybe saw the username a few times.

The Celtics are not better without Jaylen Brown, not at all. We’ve been through this. Most of us agree Jaylen is having a terrific season and is a legit contributor to the team’s success.

You do not feel this way and just repeat the same statistics again and again and again. Why go over it for a hundredth time?

The question is your obsession more than anything. Just learn to enjoy the team or at least fill us in on why you hate him so much because it’s not about the player himself or else you wouldn’t go to such lengths to bash him.