Cap Hell

[PaulThePat]

Does this actually exist or are teams somehow able to endlessly manipulate the Cap without any real consequences?

We keep getting told the Chiefs will be in Cap Hell soon. But will they? Will anybody? Seems like we're almost back in the 80s and 90s when teams like the 49rs just signed who they wanted no matter the cost.

 

[moosekill]

You can keep adjusting salaries and kicking them down the road, but at some point you end up paying a bunch for players who are no longer on the team. Then eventually you have to pay the piper.

 

[Clonamery]

Does this actually exist or are teams somehow able to endlessly manipulate the Cap without any real consequences?

We keep getting told the Chiefs will be in Cap Hell soon. But will they? Will anybody? Seems like we're almost back in the 80s and 90s when teams like the 49rs just signed who they wanted no matter the cost.

The NFL Salary Cap came in to existence in 1994.

 

[JayNM]

You can keep adjusting salaries and kicking them down the road, but at some point you end up paying a bunch for players who are no longer on the team. Then eventually you have to pay the piper.

Unless the cap increases at 10% rate, which has been happening since 2012*

Then it's simple math, 10% of 200M is more than most player's salary that were to be pushed

Ive been paying some attention to the movements made by teams this year and let me be the first to tell you: The salary cap is not crap, but it's easily manipulated. And more and more i grow tired of a Economics degree of a GM not being able to use the accounting ways of creating space.

*covid year being the exception

 

[PaulThePat]

You can keep adjusting salaries and kicking them down the road, but at some point you end up paying a bunch for players who are no longer on the team.

Does this mean players accept less $$ year on year with the promise of getting it all paid up once they are released? Assume that would have to count against the cap for the year of their release i.e. has to go against some year?

 

[Triumph]

Does this actually exist or are teams somehow able to endlessly manipulate the Cap without any real consequences?

We keep getting told the Chiefs will be in Cap Hell soon. But will they? Will anybody? Seems like we're almost back in the 80s and 90s when teams like the 49rs just signed who they wanted no matter the cost.

Supposedly, KC is converting Mahomes 2022 $27 mil roster bonus into signing bonus money. They did the same thing last year. Patrick Mahomes Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap

The Saints were in cap hell just a few years ago.

 

[slash83]

You can be in cap hell or trouble whatever you want to call it. However, teams show every year you can go from being 30 over to 30 under within a matter of days without cutting a single player.

 

[RIpats88]

You can be in cap hell or trouble whatever you want to call it. However, teams show every year you can go from being 30 over to 30 under within a matter of days without cutting a single player.

And even cap hell seems to last a season

 

[PaulThePat]

And even cap hell seems to last a season

One season of supposed Hell doesn't seem to be much of a deterrent

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

And even cap hell seems to last a season

This is true. The team can pile the cap hit mostly into one season. Of course after that you have to rebuild everything which takes years. That is what the Pats are doing, rebuilding after Tom left and BB took a "cap reset" year. BB will manipulate the cap when he thinks the Pats can push to win a Super Bowl - no reason to push monies into future years when we are only a marginal playoff team. My guess is BB will be more aggressive in 2023. With a good draft and no lousy FA signing (bad FA hinders a team like bad drafts) the team will be positoned in 2023.

 

[Steve102]

Where's @Deus Irae

 

[PaulThePat]

BTW Not having a go at any team here. Just intrigued by the Cap Hell theory v reality.

 

[chasa]

You can keep adjusting salaries and kicking them down the road, but at some point you end up paying a bunch for players who are no longer on the team. Then eventually you have to pay the piper.

if that were true the saints wouldn't have started this offseason 80 million over the cap, and are now currently 30 million under the cap, without having cut anyone.

Cap hell is a myth teams use to not spend money.

 

[chasa]

Does this mean players accept less $$ year on year with the promise of getting it all paid up once they are released? Assume that would have to count against the cap for the year of their release i.e. has to go against some year?

no, you convert money to bonuses, which spreads that money out on the cap, but gives it to the player right away. players don't need to agree to it, teams can just do it willy nilly.

the trick is to add a bunch of extra years without guarenteed money to spread that cap hit out, players need to agree to this bit.

So you have the von miller deal for the bills

60 mil in the first three years, of a 6 year contract, a good chunk of that 60 mil is bonuses, those bonuses are spread out over the entire 6 years in terms of cap hits, so they end up giving him 60 million in three years, but in terms of the cap they are only giving him "30ish"

Player gets a bag, team gets to play with monopoly money.

 

[Toofy]

If everyone starts to do this, then every team with stud QB is gonna milk it for 10 years and have one cap reset year.


Teams which don't do this will be wallowing in mediocrity and come up short. I just feel this and the continued projected cap increase means teams have all the more leverage to do this for a good portion of the QB s prime career. GB,NO and Rams are classic examples . Now bills, raiders, broncos are doing this .

It's not a question of whether pats will do cap manipulation, it's about when..

Once bill gets confident that Mac can stand head and shoulders with the big boys, the pats will get new toys.

 

[VectorPrime]

It was real in the 2000s before the exponential explosion in revenue from TV deals over the last decade. Problem is SOME teams never adjusted their philosophy.

 

[FCB02062]

"The Cap is crap" - some guys on 98.5 afternoon drive time....

 

[VectorPrime]

"The Cap is crap" - some guys on 98.5 afternoon drive time....

Felger was right all along lmao

 

[MahomestoKelce]

Chiefs window is open as long as Mahomes is QB. So another 10 years or so. Same for Buffalo. Same for Cincinnati. Maybe Chargers. Jmo. If you've got an elite QB, there's always an open window.

Patriots didn't have a rebuild with Brady between 2003 and 2018. Colts didn't have one with Manning. Packers were consistent playoff contenders with Favre then Rodgers.

Yes every team does eventually pay the piper. But it's usually not going to happen with smart management and coaches.

The QB salaries will continue to explode too.

It's hard to believe. But in 5 years or so, Mahomes may be like the 7th or 8th highest paid QB. That's not necessarily due to there being 6 or 7 better QB's. That's just the market. His salary will seem "Pedestrian".

 

[MahomestoKelce]

"The Cap is crap" - some guys on 98.5 afternoon drive time....

I cancelled my subscription to them.

The question will be asked why I chose a subscription in the first place. Well I figured I need to know as much as possible about the Patriots in order to engage in discussions. Unfortunately I picked the wrong guys to listen too.

They are worse than sports dudes in other tough markets like Philly, NY, and Chicago. Felger tried to make the argument that winning the SB in 2018 wasn't that great because the Patriots struggled most of the year. Bittersweet he said.

I've never seen two guys show as much disrespect to a first class organization as these guys. You'd think the Patriots were the Browns the way they talk.