Breer looks for Collins' stuff, ends up talking Brady

[deroc5050]

Belichick would not have had Dalton for over 15 years. Question is whether he would have had him at all.

It was a hypothetical mainly pointing out that a QB like Dalton is average to slightly above average. And because Belichick has TB12 he can make mistakes and TB will just cover them up with his play.

You disagreed that Tom Brady isnt the most important part of the team? So you think Belichick is?

 

[NormZauchin]

That's something to ponder. Belichick with Andy Dalton vs. Brady with a Marv Lewis coach team over a long period of time.

I'd wager that Belichick would upgrade Dalton if he could, and that Brady would get Marv Lewis fired if he could. Both would feel they could do better with their situation.

If Brady could win a playoff game with Marv Lewis as his coach, it would prove beyond all doubt that he is the GOAT.

 

[TheFlyingWedge]

2 stupid arguments I've heard repeatedly over the years...

Argument 1: Brady is nothing more than a system quarterback. Look at the fact that Belichick went 11-5 with Cassell as his game manager.

Argument 2: Belichick is a mediocre coach who just lucked out by drafting Brady. Look at how the Pats missed the playoffs the year that Cassell played instead of Brady.

 

[PP2]

I really love this article in general, and it provides a certain amount of insight into the possible motivations behind the Collins trade. Nothing that hasn't been speculated, but this is from the big kahuna himself.

“The big thing I’d say we look for, which would try to differentiate the players for us, are players with passion; guys that really love football. As we all know from our jobs, if you love what you’re doing you don’t feel like you’re working. If you don’t like what you’re doing, then every step of the way is just painful torture. We don’t want people who are in football because of the lifestyle it brings or the opportunities [or rewards] from it. We want people who are in our business because they love doing it."

This cannot be overstated. It is the holy grail in terms of understanding who BB is and is a big reason why he is in a league of his own, compared to the rest of the NFL.

 

[1960Pats]

Agreed, would have been pretty awesome to get a top 5 pick out of it, since it's so rare for us to have access to that kind of talent. I can't complain about Solder though, last week aside he's been pretty good for us.

I think Solder has other more important things on his mind than football.

 

[PittPatriot]

I don't think it's fair to just say it's BB vs TB12...pick one and that's it.
With the coach you get the entire staff. You get the cultivating of bright young minds and an entire culture infiltrating the front office, the locker room, and everything associated with the team. There is a reason why we usually are near the top of his salary cap management.

On the flipside, having Brady makes all of that easier. He is a large part of the culture.

 

[PatriotsReign]

Jimmy beat Arizona and dropped multiple touchdowns on Miami without much trouble before getting hurt before halftime. Why would someone see that effort and say "no one's afraid of him"? Are they daft?

I mean yeah, he's not the GOAT, but he still played pretty damn well.

Because he'd need to do that consistently for a number of YEARS to prove he's fear-worthy. Even Pats fans don't have close to that kind of confidence in JG.

Personally, I'd need to see years of success before he wins my confidence. At least the same kind of confidence I have with Brady

Brady has done what he does for over 15 years....every single year.

 

[Rob0729]

If you can't admit something as obvious as the Patriots not overcoming the loss of Seymour in 2009, we have nothing to discuss.

I am commenting that there were far more problems with the 2009 team than the loss of Seymour. Seymour didn't play in the secondary. Seymour wouldn't have been late for practice in a snow storm and then go on TV and biatch about getting sent home to reporters. That 2009 team was a mess.

Whether they could or couldn't overcome the loss of Seymour or not doesn't change the fact the 2009 Patriots were a soft team and were most likely one and done with or without him.

 

[Rob0729]

I hear that argument a lot, but that was the exact same team that had a perfect regular season one year before. 5 losses is huge on that team

It wasn't the exact same team. The Pats lost both their starting CBs in Asante Samuel and Randall Gay. Rodney Harrison was lost for the season in October. Both. Bruschi and Vrabel were on massive decline. Stallworth was gone.

The offensive weapons were slightly worse and the defense was significantly worse.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Of course. The point wasn't really about JG, it was more about the general level of idiots running the other teams in the league.

I swear 1/2 of them couldnt get jobs at Baskin Robbins

 

[n6249c]

It was a hypothetical mainly pointing out that a QB like Dalton is average to slightly above average. And because Belichick has TB12 he can make mistakes and TB will just cover them up with his play.

You disagreed that Tom Brady isnt the most important part of the team? So you think Belichick is?

Yes. Not to take anything away from Brady, but he would never been more than a backup flash in the pan under many other NFL coaches. Those coaches would not have had the intestinal fortitude to keep playing Brady when fan favorite Bledsoe was ready to return, for one thing.

And you missed my point about Dalton being average to slightly above average, I get that. What you don't get is that Belichick would not settle for that. And that brings up the question, how many other QB prospects have had the potential to be great but were stifled under lesser coaches than Belichick?

The real point is, we are blessed to have two GOATs at the same time, in the two positions that are most critical to team success, and they complement each other tremendously. That is just an incredible perfect storm for the rest of the league. There is simply no way to force parity upon that situation short of taking them both out of the game. Even taking Brady out of the game has not done it.

Here's a question though, we've seen what has happened when Brady is not on the field. What would the results be if Belichick was the one who is gone and Brady was still playing? What would the W/L record be for twenty games with Brady at QB and someone else coaching?

 

[deroc5050]

Yes. Not to take anything away from Brady, but he would never been more than a backup flash in the pan under many other NFL coaches. Those coaches would not have had the intestinal fortitude to keep playing Brady when fan favorite Bledsoe was ready to return, for one thing.

And you missed my point about Dalton being average to slightly above average, I get that. What you don't get is that Belichick would not settle for that. And that brings up the question, how many other QB prospects have had the potential to be great but were stifled under lesser coaches than Belichick?

The real point is, we are blessed to have two GOATs at the same time, in the two positions that are most critical to team success, and they complement each other tremendously. That is just an incredible perfect storm for the rest of the league. There is simply no way to force parity upon that situation short of taking them both out of the game. Even taking Brady out of the game has not done it.

Here's a question though, we've seen what has happened when Brady is not on the field. What would the results be if Belichick was the one who is gone and Brady was still playing? What would the W/L record be for twenty games with Brady at QB and someone else coaching?

I honestly believe Brady would carry the team, just like Manning did for the Colts. I think Bill is probably the best NFL coach to ever live but he got lucky with Brady. And to be quite honest I think Bill ****ed us last season. The Philly game was horrible coaching.. the Miami game god awful.. And there has been some questionable personnel decisions over the years. Those 2 games cost us homefield advantage. We went 2-4 down the stretch last season. I put atleast 2 of those losses on coaching.

As for Brady being a back up flash in the pan.. who the hell knows. Thats purely a guess on your part.

 

[wizwor]

Why is it alway either or with Brady and Belichick? I don't remember the same being true of Jordan and Phil Jackson. They are both great and while relying on each other, they make each other better. That should be revered, not picked apart.

Lots of people hate both guys. They use the one they don't hate to take away from the accomplishments of the other.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Last season with Eagles & Miami BB coached the equivalent of those rare games where TFB threw 3-4 picks. Hope never to see it again.

 

[Schmo]

1. BB is the reason we have a great chance at winning each of the 19 games every year. Pretty sure he'll tell you himself that's his job...to keep the patriots in the position to win ballgames.
2. Bill pays attention to the entire roster, instead of just the first 22 guys, while throwing the extras on special teams like other coaches. THIS is why he can trade Collins... he has known commodities further down the depth chart that can and will help us win in January/February.
3. If BB is the reason we are in position to win games, Tom Brady is the reason why we win.

Take our only loss this season, 16-0 to the Bills - BB put us in position to win as we were within 2 scores at the end of the game (#1 on my list). Despite having a competent backup QB and talented rookie as 3rd string, it took a series of 2 injuries and 1 unfounded suspension, at one position, in the course of 4 games, to get to that point (#2). We have Tom for that game, we win, period (#3).

He is absolutely a system QB... he IS the system. Every member of the offense has to keep pace with Tom in order to be successful. I am very confident that he could coach this offense as well if not better than McDaniels.

 

[Danger Zone]

I honestly believe Brady would carry the team, just like Manning did for the Colts. I think Bill is probably the best NFL coach to ever live but he got lucky with Brady. And to be quite honest I think Bill ****ed us last season. The Philly game was horrible coaching.. the Miami game god awful.. And there has been some questionable personnel decisions over the years. Those 2 games cost us homefield advantage. We went 2-4 down the stretch last season. I put atleast 2 of those losses on coaching.

As for Brady being a back up flash in the pan.. who the hell knows. Thats purely a guess on your part.

Belichick lucked out with Brady sure... but he also already had a semi-franchise quarterback in Bledsoe and yet he still kept 4 quarterbacks on the roster Brady's rookie year. Clearly he saw something in Brady that very few other people did and he was willing to give up a roster slot to see what could come of it.

You make your own luck at times.